Lorraine Broderick as AMC head writer

[Khan]

Yeah, he's right, Adam. Whether they're taping in NYC or L.A., they're still taping w/ Chuck Pratt's terrible scripts.

[EricMontreal22]

Pratt's stuff will be out by the LA move... I thought

[bellcurve]

It'll be in HD!

[LoyaltoAMC]

Susan Lucci has publicly credited Agnes with the original Kendall story. I remember her on some soap panel on the Phil Donahue Show around 93/94, might've been an episode dedicated to the Daytime Emmys. She was talking about the story, and she said that this story epitomizes "the genius of Agnes Nixon" (her only direct words I remember) in that she can look into a character's past and create story from it. I truly believe that back then, even though Megan was officially HW, Agnes crafted the narratives, the overall stories, especially those that were part of the legacy characters' "journies." Megan definitely had a hand, but I suspect that Agnes was very much involved at that point.

At the time, I thought the introduction of Kendall and the back story of the rape were interesting, but in hindsight, I think it might've been a mistake, just in terms of the damage it did to the character. Erica up until that point had was a campy semi-comical heroine/villainess, the type of material Lucci excelled in. She experienced dramatic & melodramatic events, but there was usually a sense of high camp and comedy/satire associated with these events (Erica hides out as a nun after being accused of murdering Kent; Erica and Palmer hunt Nazis; Erica's plane crashes and she stares down a bear; Erica and Brooke are kidnapped by quasi-terrorists, etc., you get the point). The rape story took the character to darker places from which it was tough to mine comedy, and I don't think it was entirely successful. I understand that they wanted to take the character to new places after 20+ years and maybe challenge Lucci a bit, but I don't think a teenage rape facilitated by her father was the way to go.

[DRW50]

I think in the long run the Kendall backstory was a benefit to Erica's character, not a detraction. Erica's early history basically just involved her wanting to be famous, liking guys, and having daddy issues. Most of that ended up playing into the Richard Fields story, where this guy manipulated and then raped her.

Aside from the usual scenes where Erica mourned one of her dead husbands or wept for Bianca's health in the hospital chapel, had Susan ever had any serious storylines before the Kendall story? I think Susan did more than an admirable job with tough material and I think this probably helped to encourage them to give Erica other dramatic material which Erica played very well, from the pill addiction story, to the babynapping story that would have fallen apart if not for Susan's work, especially her very, very strong work when Erica lost her baby a few months before the kidnapping. And of course Bianca's anorexia and coming out stories.

I don't believe Erica works that well as a character when her material centers on romance and flirting -- it did work many years ago, but by the time of Chris Stamp, which is when Kendall returned, I thought it was just sort of lifeless. Kendall's return with AM gave Erica a lot of great material for two or three years. The "Kane women" stuff was always a bit ridiculous, but I do think Kendall and Bianca and the complex relationships in the Kane family was probably the best stuff Erica had this decade, by a long shot.

The Kendall/Erica relationship isn't very interesting now, but I wouldn't rewrite history to pretend it never happened. AMC already forgets enough of its own history when convenient for them.

I also don't think they can ever really return to the comedic, fun stuff with Erica. I could see her in business stories, and entertaining moments where she bickers with other women, but a lot of the other Erica stuff, the vamping, or the physical fights with other women, I think that is probably going to look very awkward at Erica's current age.

I do wish they'd have more stories about Enchantment, and I would have loved to have seen more stories about Adam and Erica (not romantically, but just about their friendship and how well they know each other).

[SFK]

And that right there speaks to the importance of a Brooke, just as Viki needs her Dorian, Erica needs her Brooke. When Erica is at odds with Greenlee or Annie it seems unfairly matched, and worse than that, just ridiculous. We get that Erica is big and bad, she wrote the book and can still throw down with the young bitches, but a Brooke or even a Barbara or Natalie (yes I know, bad example, she's dead), their very presence clicks something off in the heads of longterm fans. We know the history and somehow Erica the human being seems more validated when at odds with her peers... we still giggle and shake our heads at her pettiness and petulance, yet we can see and appreciate her growth, because no she would not deal with Brooke the same way she would in 1984. Erica vs. Greenlee or Annie, it's like, Why are you wasting your time with this foolishness, you are too grown to be acting simple with these little girls.

Like I said, I really did enjoy the Richard Fields stuff, must-see TV as far as I was concerned. What I DIDN'T like was the alcoholism (and I don't mean to make light, but white wine? They could have at least made it vodka) s/l where it was revealed that Eric SOLD her. I really did not care for that addition at all. I know it's just a show, but I'm not too keen on turning bad fathers (or good ones, like Victor Lord) into absolute DEMONS in death. Your dad was a jerk, we get it, but they always have to get so extra with that stuff. The Victor stuff was fascinating, but...

[Steve]

I remember Susan crediting Agnes with the story, too. If I recall correctly (and my mind may be playing tricks on me) Susan said Agnes first mentioned Erica having a daughter when she was a teenager about 5 years before they cast the role, but the writers decided at that time that they weren't going to do it.

ICAM! I loved the Kendall story in part because it added another layer to Erica. She was no longer just the campy vixen. At this point, Erica is too old to be playing the flirt.

I so wish Brooke would come back permanently. She and Erica were great as foes and at this stage of their lives, they could be competing in business (as long as its not Fusion) rather than having catfights.

ITA that the writer should never have added the twist that Eric sold Erica to Fields. The story was fine as it was originally told and this just invalidated whatever love Eric had for his daughter.

[R Sinclair]

:lol:

That cracked me up on so many levels.

Well, Susan Lucci's guilty of de-SORAS'ing Erica on Soap Net for years. She says that she started playing Erica as a 15 year old school girl. WRONG! Quit it! The very first episode EVER has Mona talking about Erica DRIVING! Nice try, but rejected, Looch!

As a proud Anti-Megite, I have to say that you can hate it all you want, but her last two stints without Agnes speak for themselves. She takes a machete to the show's canvas. She didn't do this show any "good." Like the saying goes, "even a broken clock is right twice a day" -- doesn't mean she deserves praise for it.

Susan Lucci credits Agnes Nixon with everything. When Erica was on the run with Carmen, people who already thought Agnes was ghostwriting (LMAO! I initially typed "gaslighting") the show RANNNNNNNN with a quote where Lucci mentioned something about Agnes Nixon being involved with the Erica character as if Agnes was writing that entire Erica on the Run storyline. Of course, she didn't write the whole "Free Erica Kane" rock concert with that gaggle of little boys dancing outside the prison, because Agnes only wrote the GOOD stuff.

Nevertheless, I'm sure Agnes was involved in plotting (in the 1993 behind the scenes video, FMB says that it's her job to take the "wonderful stories that Agnes and Megan give me" and put them on the air), but that concept of Erica being raped as a 14 year old girl and blocking it out for 2 decades? Come on... that reeks of McTavish's trademark style of rewriting history that has followed her from story to story, show to show, for years! That doesn't seem like Nixon's style at all. Nothing about her previous works ever hinted at rewriting the history she's already and purposely set in place.

Well, not to make this sound so arbitrary, but if they really wanted to have Erica raped (since Megan loves raping women) to give the character more depth and drama, I think it could've been just as viable having it happen as an adult and having Erica changed from that point forward. It's a whole different case when you basically write that Erica was raped, blocked it out, had this whole other incredible life for TWENTY YEARS, and then she remembers it, and it changes her again. It makes no sense, to me, because it now colors everything Erica has ever done. For example, the way they tried to make Erica's abortion about being raped -- not about vanity. Okay, so wait. Erica blocked out the rape. But then when she got pregnant, she remembered it just enough to go through with the abortion, and then blocked it out again, only to remember it again? It's like ever since then, they've been picking and choosing things from Erica's past to be a subconscious byproduct of the rape, or the conscious quest to "make it."

Exactly. OMG, EXACTLY! Here she is a grandmother and a businesswoman -- yet she's having catfights with 20something girls and giving them swirlies?

Which brings me back to the point that when left alone, McTavish is poison. I totally believe that this is actually where McTavish probably wanted to go with this storyline initially, but Agnes, who created Erica and her backstory loosely based on her own, most likely didn't want to demonize Eric Kane, especially in that horrid manner, because it wasn't about that.

[DRW50]

The thing with AMC rapes is that many of them, unless the person was already a town heroine (like Ruth or Bianca), were "redeemed via rape," where someone who was supposed to be "bad" then saw the light because of a brutal assault. So they may have felt like they'd have to take away many of Erica's defining characteristics and dull her down, as they did to Brooke, Natalie, Gloria, among others.

I can see where the idea of revealing her rape as a teenager, and suggesting this rape had caused some of her major issues with men, compelled them. I do agree with you that later on they took this too far, with moments like trying to pin her abortion on issues stemming from her rape.

[Khan]

[cynicism]Relax, Susie, you got the job.[/cynicism]

Well, I'm glad someone said it! Yeah, I know Susan needed the Emmy, but at what cost, AMC?

Don't get me started on that one, either. What IS it w/ ABCD and assassinating the characters of their lead heroines' fathers? First, Victor Lord; then, Rick Webber; and now, Eric Kane, and the hideous insinuation that he basically pimped out his "fourteen"-year-old daughter. Does someone at the network have daddy issues, or something?

[Khan]

And what was so bad or "wrong" about that? I think that, alone, is a PERFECT explanation for Erica's behavior; and as she grew older, became a mother, and finally dealt honestly w/ the issues surrounding Eric's abandonment of her and Mona, she was becoming the kind of grounded and giving woman she was always meant to be. At last, Erica and Mona had something in common, namely, their mutual adoration for Bianca, and the belief that a mother will always do whatever she has to in order to protect her child. No more would Erica think only of herself; now, Bianca's happiness came first. (Didn't stop her from making dumb mistakes, mind you, but at least we could empathize with them more.) Hell, Erica even had her first real gal-pal in Opal (of all people!) and no one believed that would ever happen!

THAT was who Erica had become...and I miss her terribly.

Yes. However, Erica, as designed, or as what she evolved into over the years, was never the kind of character who was supposed to have the sort of dramatically heavy material that traditional, "long-suffering" heroines usually get (Lucci's Emmy fetish, be damned). Erica, after all, was an anti-heroine. The same way Delia on RYAN'S HOPE was an anti-heroine; the same way Dorian and Tina were anti-heroines on OLTL (and not the ass-clowns these two women eventually became). Whenever you see what they're up to at the moment, all you can do is just laugh, shake your head, and say, oh, Erica/Delia/Dorian/Tina/etc.!

To me, stories such as Erica's drug addiction rang false, because - although the subject matter was timely and well-handled (when not handled by Megan McTavish) - the character as structured could never support the weight of such dark and exhausting material. Frankly, it's like suddenly making Ted Baxter ("The Mary Tyler Moore Show") a family man, only in reverse.

IMO, Bianca comes closer to being the sort of traditional heroine who can support those kinds of stories. That way, Erica would be allowed to behave more in character as the mother who genuinely wants to help her daughter through whatever crisis, but whose Phoebe Tyler-esque interference makes her more of a hindrance than a help; and Mona, if she were still alive (or someone like Opal, if she weren't), would be the more tolerant and understanding grandmother ("Bianca, dear, you know how your mother gets about these things...").

[Khan]

It was "lifeless," as you say, because, when it comes to Erica's relationships with men, the law of diminishing returns goes into effect. Meaning, each new love interest, in my opinion, is only slightly less interesting than the last. It wasn't always that way, of course. Jeff Martin and Phil Brent were entirely out of Erica's league, and she was entirely out of theirs. And Tom Cudahy might've been a step up from those two, but only barely.

The first suitor of hers who could really "sizzle" with that girl was Brandon Kingsley. He was dashing, charming, extremely wealthy, and about the most sophisticated, cosmopolitan man Erica had ever met. Honestly, folks, why Agnes Nixon (or Wisner Washam, or whoever) ended that relationship, I'll never know. Granted, I loved the Mike/Erica affair, and her fling w/ Jeremy wasn't too bad, either. Still, Brandon and Erica should have been to AMC what Doug and Julie were to DAYS, or what Victor and Nikki were and still are to Y&R.

[Jonathan]

He was married to some chick named Sara, so they couldn't be together.

[Khan]

THANK YOU!!!! Believe me, I thought I was the ONLY one who felt this way. Glad to know, though, that I don't.

Yes, you're right, Erica vs. Annie is just about the most ridiculous thing ever. True, Annie cut a bitch, and Erica just happened to be that bitch. But the Itchy-and-Scratchy shenanigans that follow just reek of stupid. About as stupid, in fact, as whenever Abby and Paige went toe-to-toe over Greg Sumner on KNOTS LANDING.

That's true, too. It'd be more like Phoebe and Mona at this point: no catfights or anything; but certainly, they're not going to invite each other over for lunch anytime soon.

Man, killing off Laura Cudahy really was dumb. Because, just imagine if Bianca and Laura had become good friends, yet had to deal with their mothers being each other's nemesis?

No, it wasn't (IMO). It was lame, and hack-worthy, and Peggy O'Shea, Sam Hall, S. Michael Schnessel, Michael Malone, Chris Whitesell and Lorraine Broderick (see how this thread comes full circle?) should all feel ashamed of themselves.

[DRW50]

I don't know if there's anything wrong with it, but I don't think it provided a lot of drama. The show even shipped Bianca off to Seattle precisely because they had decided Erica being a grounded mother wasn't interesting. Instead, Erica's stories mostly revolved around romance and dramatic intrigue, and going between various men. I think that was already starting to get a little stale by the early 90s, and has probably been the weakest link for the character since then. I think opening up more of her personality as to how she had to deal with someone like Kendall, who represented much of her shame, and also took the darker sides of her personality to the nth degree, opened new facts of the character.

The problem for me was that Delia quickly became mired in repetitive, sadomasochistic, depressing storylines. It was pathetic, and not very entertaining, to see Delia yet again reduced to nothing, trying to win back Frank, or Pat, and shrieking about how everyone was mean to her. This worked for Delia for a few years, but then even Ilene Kristen asked for a change. When she got the change, that was some of Delia's best material (the stock market story). When they took Delia back to being trapped at Ryan's and wailing over them, it was a long, slow death of her character.

Dorian was a very dark character for some time, but I think one could make a case for bringing a child into her life changing her more than it changed Erica. As for Tina, she was just screwed over because OLTL lost all interest in her character. For me it wasn't even about Tina no longer being an anti-heroine and more about her losing any perspective or purpose. What was done to her character starting with Krista Tesreau was pathetic.

I think Kendall allowed Erica to be an anti-heroine as much as some of her previous stories had. By the time Kendall came around, a lot of the facets which showed up Erica's complexities, such as her being ashamed of her mother but still cherishing her and needing her, had been eased away. Kendall was a way to throw some of that around again, to take Erica back to a place where she wasn't settled.

I think the only way Erica could survive as a character was transitioning to darker material. When they've attempted to take Erica back to more of her campy heyday, it just seems desperate, perhaps because that deliciously campy, fun, frothy world which part of AMC lived in during the '80s was not something the show was interested in during the '90s. Or they didn't know how to do that type of material.

I could see this working, but I think the problem is it just boils down to some of the same scenes over and over. Erica is unhappy. Erica is passive-aggressive. Erica complains, and Bianca whines, and then at the end, Erica pulls herself together and makes the choice Bianca wants.

One of the reasons I liked the Erica/Kendall relationship, before the poor writing of the last few years, was this wasn't as predictable. I never quite knew when Erica was going to support Kendall or lash out at her. I wasn't sure when Kendall was going to ask for Erica's love, or spurn her or blame her.

I miss that unpredictability in Erica's life. I think Erica works best as a character when she's fighting for something, and she's not even sure what. Just something to complete her.