I don't think Kim Zimmer was destructive to GL the way Maurice Benard is/was to GH. I also was not watching GL when she first came on. For me, the problems with Reva came about after Zimmer's return and it was more about the writing than Zimmer or the character. The writing/producing impacted every aspect. Of the decisions made the last 10 years of the show, Reva is not even in the top ten.  

I don't know about these GL fans mentioned above. If they're not acting improperly and illegally, more power to them. Life is hard enough, and if it brings them joy to feel like family with Zimmer and Newman, let them.

re: Lucci and Zimmer. Zimmer's worst storylines (Amish/painting/clone) had better writing that a majority of Lucci's stories and scenes. Lucci's Erica was usually written with the maturity level of a high schooler so that she rarely had anything to submit that would have worked. I know some people don't like Zimmer or Reva, but for the most part, Reva was never written as someone half/three quarters of Zimmer's real age.

 

27 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I can so relate! I was the only CBS fan among the soap fans in my friend group/classmates. They were mostly Days fans and some General Hospital/All My Children fans.

I avoided that problem by going online!

20 hours ago, kalbir said:

Roger was such a big part of the early 1990s golden era. MZ acting and the writing all came together. MZ/Roger had such a presence but I didn't feel either the actor or the character took over the canvas.

MZ/Roger should get his flowers for being the OG and GOAT of CBS soap opera villains. He ran so JR and Victor could walk.

I should clarify---I meant he was the catalyst for everyone else's story, not that Roger took over the show. Roger never felt forced into a story.

I think Roger came before ATWT's John Dixon, but Zas and Bryggman are 1 and 1A, and you could flip a coin every day and feel good about either choice. 

19 hours ago, DRW50 said:

A number of July 1980 episodes were just uploaded to Youtube. Most of them have been up for years on another channel, but the first I'm posting was only up in part and the second one isn't up at all.

 

More early bitchy Vanessa!! So excited!!  There's also an episode from December 83, where Vanessa learns that "Anita" is really Reva, and Reva tells Billy they're not divorced.

13 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

After all this elevated talk & intelligent discussion, you may be appalled at what I am about to post. But, it's all Alan Locher's fault. This is what he posted on Twi/X early this morning, I have challenged him to come up with a picture of Grant Aleksander when he was on AMC. Alec McIintyre was constantly wearing this itty bitty speedo & diving in the pool. I'll say this for JWS for a preacher's kid, he sure did have a body!!!

Grant was also often in a speedo on Capitol. Just FYI

3 minutes ago, P.J. said:

More early bitchy Vanessa!! So excited!!  There's also an episode from December 83, where Vanessa learns that "Anita" is really Reva, and Reva tells Billy they're not divorced.

Thanks for mentioning it. I saw those but was afraid of dumping too many videos at once.

13 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

Interestingly enough I think the only regime to try and challenge Josh as a character was Conboy/Weston with the Josh/Shayne car accident storyline. Though the execution was wonky with the baseball obsession (which I feel came out of nowhere), I think it allowed RN to sink his teeth into some meaty material and he was able step to the forefront and be in the spotlight for once (plus he and Reva were together at the time).

Honestly the only way I see GL could have challenged Josh as character is his relationships with his children, Marah and Shayne, and him seeing how in some instances he might mirror HB as a father.

There was a beat during the Peter custody battle where he's toeing the line between helping Vanessa and sacrificing Dylan in the process, that was a little interesting. It would've been nice to see him stumble in business perhaps, and pull a Billy-like manuever that only made matters worse. Or even try and go after Roger...but of course, Josh wasn't going to do that.

11 hours ago, Khan said:

To this day, I RME at the idea of Josh Lewis becoming a minister.  Again, a tremendous leap for your average GL fan to have to make in order for it to make sense, lol.

Right? I get wanting to connect to the roots (although honestly, I kinda rolled my eyes at that too, sorry..) but that was ridiculous. They already had Father Ray. If they really wanted to go there---boring ol' Coop was available.

Stumbled on an episode (I think it's from '06) where cancer patient Reva has a dream that she and Billy had stayed married. Vanessa is Billy's side chick. In a fur coat, no less!

26 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks for mentioning it. I saw those but was afraid of dumping too many videos at once.

OMG--you know I'm in heaven! I think it's the July 30 episode has Ross/Henry discussing Vanessa dumping him to save Chamberlain Corp. *squee*

Lord, GL must've saved thousands of dollars on bras for KZ, as Reva never seemed to wear them in the early days.

57 minutes ago, P.J. said:

More early bitchy Vanessa!! So excited!!  There's also an episode from December 83, where Vanessa learns that "Anita" is really Reva, and Reva tells Billy they're not divorced.

Grant was also often in a speedo on Capitol. Just FYI

Yes, there also. High hopes a picture is found!

 

It's interesting how many different regimes capitalized on the Ross/Vanessa history, even when they didn't have a great deal of plot together. 

The whole Lujack music saga and the characters it brought in is a great example of how much GL was trying to be like anything but itself at this point. Imagine what the Dobsons could have done with Frances Fisher. 

Miss Sally is just an exhausting watch.

I'm so used to seeing Ross with the same hair year after year that when it's not the same (like in this period), I just get weirded out, like when your father tried to grow a mustache. 

I have no idea why they did all this buildup with Simon and India when he then went after Jessie. Was it down to Pam Long leaving?

I wish LK had stayed on as Rita and had a long term feud with MK's Vanessa. 

Just watching those opening scenes and intro.Only Ross and Vanessa would qualify as 'long term' characters.

I'm sure TPTB were congratulating themselves at having modernized the show,but the problem was that without long term characters you might not get long term viewers and have to keep trying to attract the next batch of viewers which  becomes more and more difficult.

And that is exactly what happened.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Just watching those opening scenes and intro.Only Ross and Vanessa would qualify as 'long term' characters.

I'm sure TPTB were congratulating themselves at having modernized the show,but the problem was that without long term characters you might not get long term viewers and have to keep trying to attract the next batch of viewers which  becomes more and more difficult.

And that is exactly what happened.

Yeah, this is such a weird era of the show. The episode DRW50 posted is still quite watchable, as Long is a solid writer. But a viewer who hadn't tuned into the show for two or three years would recognize absolutely none of the characters, aside from Ross and Vanessa. And although it's to Long's credit that she appreciated the value of multigenerational storytelling, it's bizarre to have all the middle-aged and older characters to be newbies too (e.g. Calla, Miss Sally, Warren). In a well-run soap, those roles are played by veterans who've been on for more than a decade. Mind you, aside from maybe Don Stewart (Mike Bauer), I can't think of any 1970s or early 1980s GL actors in that age range who would have really worked in these veteran roles. 

1 minute ago, prefab1 said:

Yeah, this is such a weird era of the show. The episode DRW50 posted is still quite watchable, as Long is a solid writer. But a viewer who hadn't tuned into the show for two or three years would recognize absolutely none of the characters, aside from Ross and Vanessa. And although it's to Long's credit that she appreciated the value of multigenerational storytelling, it's bizarre to have all the middle-aged and older characters to be newbies too (e.g. Calla, Miss Sally, Warren). In a well-run soap, those roles are played by veterans who've been on for more than a decade. Mind you, aside from maybe Don Stewart (Mike Bauer), I can't think of any 1970s or early 1980s GL actors in that age range who would have really worked in these veteran roles. 

One of the biggest issues is how plot-driven so many of the new characters feel - they just lack any inner life. If they had kept some of the vets then the actors or the viewers could have filled in the blanks due to history, but I'm not sure it would have done enough to combat the empty writing. 

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

One of the biggest issues is how plot-driven so many of the new characters feel - they just lack any inner life. If they had kept some of the vets then the actors or the viewers could have filled in the blanks due to history, but I'm not sure it would have done enough to combat the empty writing. 

I think you've watched more of this era than I have. Don't things only get worse in 1986, after Long leaves?

2 hours ago, prefab1 said:

I think you've watched more of this era than I have. Don't things only get worse in 1986, after Long leaves?

A LOT worse. The show becomes good again when Robert Calhoun arrives in late 1989. He was the show's last good producer.

I actually notice there's a lot of chemistry there between Simon and India. Had the show focused on them I would've become a fan, and might have liked Simon more. 

The show should've capitalized more of Frances Fisher. 

Guiding Light was my number one soap, but I must admit I hated how the oldest soap on the airwaves had almost zero elderly actors who had been on the show for decades. I envied how soaps like DAYS and ATWT kept much of their elderly actors.