27 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Thank you for the response. Most of my posts are usually thread killers. Or, at least, just get a response from crickets.  

Don't say that, your posts are very interesting. Not to mention that we love your name. 

45 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

Company was started in 1982 when Pat Faulken Smith was HW. It was first just the Reardon Boarding house, then became Reardon & Company. The Coopers and the diner came later in the late 80s. 

Not sure about the ownership of Towers and etc. It went through so many changes in the early 90s with the ownership/name and etc. 

The problem with all the writer changes is that some details get lost. From what I understand Company and the Reardon House were supposed to be near Cedars. These details fascinate me and help the viewer see the soap town as a character itself. 

Were Hillary Bauer and Kelly Nelson distantly related, or was Kelly just a friend of the family?

3 minutes ago, j swift said:

Were Hillary Bauer and Kelly Nelson distantly related, or was Kelly just a friend of the family?

IIRC, Kelly was Ed's godson.  Ed and Kelly's father, Frank, had attended medical school together.

11 minutes ago, Khan said:

IIRC, Kelly was Ed's godson.  Ed and Kelly's father, Frank, had attended medical school together.

Frank Nelson?

 

2 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Thank you for the response. Most of my posts are usually thread killers. Or, at least, just get a response from crickets.  

I love your broader frame of reference. I believe I've seen a few clips online of some Eds prior to Mart, but I don't know a lot about the earlier Bauer family dynamics. 

I guess my equivalent is knowing that Ross, Vanessa and Josh were all manipulators back in the day, and not the scions of propriety they before the end of the '80's. Although I'm still a little confused when Josh turned good. He's still a little scummy after sleeping with Reva and then begging her to run off with him even knowing the child she's carrying is HB's.

2 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

Can someone explain to me who the owner of Towers Club was?

Was the building supposed to be a hotel? 

I read somewhere that Roger built it for Blake and was called Blakeview at first? 

Was Company always around? Even during the Cooper Diner years?

Yes, Roger built the Towers and at first planned on naming it after Blake. Once Phillip married Blake, Roger wormed his way into Spaulding and started buying up property around a warehouse down on 5th that Spaulding owned. He was even responsible for a fire that destroyed that area and killed Frank and Harley's Grandfather. Only Spaulding didn't own the property it was built on, they had a 99 year lease that expired in June of '90. Roger pulled a lot of crap to hold on to it. The upshot was that Billy ended up being the heir of the woman who owned it (her name was Ruth Price). When Ruth died, he stole the lease, but foolishly kept it. Billy and Vanessa knew it existed, but couldn't prove it. That is until Reva's post-partum depression had her winding up in Roger's apartment with him taking soft-core-ish pics of her. Roger hid them, but Reva saw where he did and wanted to take them with her. Only she took the lease and not the pictures. Roger thought Billy had them, and on the night of the Towers opening, blackmailed Billy into a swap, the pics for the lease. Billy and Vanessa ended up tricking Roger, swapping the pics for the lease and Roger (thinking he was burning the lease) burned the pics. Billy then claimed ownership of the Towers and outted Roger at the same party. 

It creates a major crack in Roger/Alex's marriage, it's the night Roger sleeps with Mindy, and it leads to Billy and Vanessa (briefly) reuniting (before Reva's death blows them up again). 

The Towers is an all purpose building. It has apartments, it leases store space and by the time of the blackout, it has a swanky restaurant at the top. Hamp and Fletcher's restaurant, the Blue Moon is also anchored at the adjoining pier.

I'm not sure at what point Billy lost The Towers. I know after Billy goes to jail for shooting Roger, Vanessa is running Lewis Oil, but I'm not sure if that includes the Towers, as Billy owned that separately.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Ellen Parker Maureen was the anchor/tentpole of the community that kept things grounded.

Agreed. And the show never successfully replaced that role, imo. I know they tried with Meta, but that never jelled. I'm a little surprised they didn't try and bring back Audrey Peters's Sarah. She may have been a little crustier than they'd want, but at least she had a lot of connections on the show. 

Vanessa kinda/sorta steps into that role at times, but I don't think the show wanted her to embrace it (in the 90's the way Ross was allowed to once Ed left) since she had a "hot" young husband. 

10 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Yes, Roger built the Towers and at first planned on naming it after Blake. Once Phillip married Blake, Roger wormed his way into Spaulding and started buying up property around a warehouse down on 5th that Spaulding owned. He was even responsible for a fire that destroyed that area and killed Frank and Harley's Grandfather. Only Spaulding didn't own the property it was built on, they had a 99 year lease that expired in June of '90. Roger pulled a lot of crap to hold on to it. The upshot was that Billy ended up being the heir of the woman who owned it (her name was Ruth Price). When Ruth died, he stole the lease, but foolishly kept it. Billy and Vanessa knew it existed, but couldn't prove it. That is until Reva's post-partum depression had her winding up in Roger's apartment with him taking soft-core-ish pics of her. Roger hid them, but Reva saw where he did and wanted to take them with her. Only she took the lease and not the pictures. Roger thought Billy had them, and on the night of the Towers opening, blackmailed Billy into a swap, the pics for the lease. Billy and Vanessa ended up tricking Roger, swapping the pics for the lease and Roger (thinking he was burning the lease) burned the pics. Billy then claimed ownership of the Towers and outted Roger at the same party. 

It creates a major crack in Roger/Alex's marriage, it's the night Roger sleeps with Mindy, and it leads to Billy and Vanessa (briefly) reuniting (before Reva's death blows them up again). 

The Towers is an all purpose building. It has apartments, it leases store space and by the time of the blackout, it has a swanky restaurant at the top. Hamp and Fletcher's restaurant, the Blue Moon is also anchored at the adjoining pier.

I'm not sure at what point Billy lost The Towers. I know after Billy goes to jail for shooting Roger, Vanessa is running Lewis Oil, but I'm not sure if that includes the Towers, as Billy owned that separately.

Wow. Thanks you so much. Only the people on this board! 🙂

Sounds like a lot of story could take place there, especially in the 90s and give the show a more urban vibe. 

41 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

Wow. Thanks you so much. Only the people on this board! 🙂

Sounds like a lot of story could take place there, especially in the 90s and give the show a more urban vibe. 

It could have, but I think they only sets they created were Billy's office and then later the restaurant.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

IIRC, Kelly was Ed's godson.  Ed and Kelly's father, Frank, had attended medical school together.

As far as I know that was made up by Marland.

Kelly should have been Peggy's son Billy. Straight away you have a connection that goes back to the 50's with his grandfather Paul, a close friend of the Bauers.

3 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

 

I don't know why it won't let me edit that post. 

I get why they would've wanted to update Vanessa's 'do. It's also around this time they cut a foot off Hope's hair. There's a clearer picture of it here. I just don't find it very Vanessa-ish. But I don't think it lasts too long. I think it goes when Wired for Sound bites the dust.

Edited August 4, 20241 yr by P.J.

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

I love your broader frame of reference. I believe I've seen a few clips online of some Eds prior to Mart, but I don't know a lot about the earlier Bauer family dynamics. 

I guess my equivalent is knowing that Ross, Vanessa and Josh were all manipulators back in the day, and not the scions of propriety they before the end of the '80's. Although I'm still a little confused when Josh turned good. He's still a little scummy after sleeping with Reva and then begging her to run off with him even knowing the child she's carrying is HB's.

By the time of the 1983 episodes when he and Morgan break up, he already seems to be written sympathetically, especially considering only a year before he was heavily pursuing her when she was vulnerable and just married. 

I don't know if Josh was ever a very likeable character (I remember being disgusted when his response to Reva trying to win him back post return from the dead was shaming her for being sexually abused as a young girl), but they seemed to drop the complete baddie routine after Marland's departure.

9 hours ago, P.J. said:

It's kind of hard to judge, since 1982 episodes are so spotty, so I'm really not even sure if he was a contract player. He never seems to have his own story, but I like him. They could've at least tried him with Katie (who is basically a day player for three years) instead of trying to sell Tony as the be-all end-all. I mean, I liked Greg Beecroft at the time, but not so much on the rewatch.

I like him more in his last few years (although I haven't watched closely) but I find him difficult to stomach under Marland. He seems so toxic and the way he treats Nola (annoying as she may have been) bothers me - constant berating. When watching the Quola clips a while back I noticed that he becomes nicer toward her almost as soon as Marland goes. 

8 hours ago, Khan said:

Believe it or not, Harley Venton - who, I agree, is wonderful - was Cybill Shepherd's choice to play David Addison on "Moonlighting."  However, the show's creator/EP, Glenn Gordon Caron, and the network (ABC) overruled her.

I figure this must be why he had a guest spot on Cybill. At least she remembered him.

Derek/Vanessa would have been a good pairing, if the show had gone there. Beyond being a plot mover for the "good" characters I am not sure exactly what plans Marland had for Vanessa.

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again but I think Robert Gentry personified the character of Ed the best as he was envisioned in the 60s and this is, in my opinion, the character's most prominent time. But this vision of the character was long gone by the time Gentry played the role again decades later. I never saw him when he revised the role but I can imagine he did seem out of place with both the writing and Ed being so different. Hulswitt was, by far, the most likable Ed. He was my "favorite" Ed in terms of likability but Gentry was my favorite for being truest to the character as originally envisioned. I really couldn't see Hulswitt pulling off the Ed of the 60s just like I can't imagine Gentry pulling off the Ed of the 70s. I tend to go with the original version of characters as the most definitive so that's why I think Gentry played Ed the best. Ed was a dick and Gentry played that so well. By the time we got to the later version of Ed, the character was just sour and weak which, actually, Simon was great at playing. But my strong distaste for the actor challenges me to say anything positive about his portrayal.  I never liked Ed so it's just hard for me to think of Hulswitt's Ed as the real Ed. Especially because his Ed was the Ed I had the least exposure to. When I watch Hulswitt's Ed, it actually confuses me to like Ed. Much like it confuses me to watch Bert in the 70s and 80s and like her so much.   

I have very mixed feelings about Ed. Peter Simon was my first Ed. I didn't see Mart Hulswit for many years. I truly did warm to him as soon as I saw him.

Sometimes I change my opinion on a recast after seeing an earlier actor (I can't ever get much out of Peter Bergman as Jack after seeing Terry Lester), but I still connect with Simon when I see him in the part, even as the character can behave in an insufferable way. Simon is just such a strong, incisive actor.

I think if I'd seen Hulswit first I would have a more difficult time with the change, as GL of all shows is the one I had the most harshly negative reactions toward recasts for (I never accepted the replacement Billy, and it took me years to get over the exits of Rachel Miner, Sherry Stringfield and Beverlee McKinsey - in Beverlee's case I never fully did).

Gentry seemed OK when he came back but there wasn't much spark and there was not much of a family for him - you had the somewhat forced Michelle recast (Rebecca Budig), and Rick. I don't know what plans they had for Ed, but they gave up very quickly.

Edited August 4, 20241 yr by DRW50

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

 Robert Gentry personified the character of Ed the best as he was envisioned in the 60s and this is, in my opinion, the character's most prominent time. But this vision of the character was long gone by the time Gentry played the role again decades later. I never saw him when he revised the role but I can imagine he did seem out of place with both the writing and Ed being so different. Hulswitt was, by far, the most likable Ed. He was my "favorite" Ed in terms of likability but Gentry was my favorite for being truest to the character as originally envisioned.

This is so well articulated. Gentry embodied the truest sense of the character as Ed Bauer was first written as a young adult. I often wanted to box his ears, he could be so annoying, but he was perfect as Ed at the time. As the character mellowed and matured, however, the charming Hulswit fit the part beautifully. Ed could still have a temper, but showed a softer side of himself as well. Hulswit's version made Ed sweeter and (dare I say?) cuddlier.

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I really couldn't see Hulswitt pulling off the Ed of the 60s just like I can't imagine Gentry pulling off the Ed of the 70s. I tend to go with the original version of characters as the most definitive so that's why I think Gentry played Ed the best. Ed was a dick and Gentry played that so well. By the time we got to the later version of Ed, the character was just sour and weak which, actually, Simon was great at playing.

So true, and I believe that to viewers (at least the longtime ones), the last remaining patriarch of the once-core family being morose, sour and weak was not what we wanted to see.

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

But my strong distaste for the actor challenges me to say anything positive about his portrayal.  I never liked Ed so it's just hard for me to think of Hulswitt's Ed as the real Ed. Especially because his Ed was the Ed I had the least exposure to. When I watch Hulswitt's Ed, it actually confuses me to like Ed. Much like it confuses me to watch Bert in the 70s and 80s and like her so much.   

At least Bert's transformation into a kinder and more loving individual was earned, and more gradual than Ed's relatively swift changeover from annoying dick to leading man. (I accepted it because I adored Hulswit, but found it somewhat jarring at the time. Like Rachel Davis on AW, who went from bitch to insta-heroine practically overnight in 1975.)

4 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Thank you for the response. Most of my posts are usually thread killers. Or, at least, just get a response from crickets.  

That is NOT true, LOL!

Your commentary is always fun to read.🙃

3 hours ago, j swift said:

Were Hillary Bauer and Kelly Nelson distantly related, or was Kelly just a friend of the family?

Yes, as noted Kelly was Ed's godson, and Hillary was Ed's half sister (they shared the same father). They were in  the same family orbit, but not biologically related.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

By the time of the 1983 episodes when he and Morgan break up, he already seems to be written sympathetically, especially considering only a year before he was heavily pursuing her when she was vulnerable and just married. 

I don't know if Josh was ever a very likeable character (I remember being disgusted when his response to Reva trying to win him back post return from the dead was shaming her for being sexually abused as a young girl), but they seemed to drop the complete baddie routine after Marland's departure.

 

Derek/Vanessa would have been a good pairing, if the show had gone there. Beyond being a plot mover for the "good" characters I am not sure exactly what plans Marland had for Vanessa.

 

I think if I'd seen Hulswit first I would have a more difficult time with the change, as GL of all shows is the one I had the most harshly negative reactions toward recasts for (I never accepted the replacement Billy, and it took me years to get over the exits of Rachel Miner, Sherry Stringfield and Beverlee McKinsey - in Beverlee's case I never fully did).

While Josh could be a self-righteous dick, they tended to ramp it up to make Reva the victim, which was annoying. The entire town just excused Reva's dumb ass because she "didn't mean" to hurt anyone, which is usually BS. She just hated getting called out on it. The crap she expected Billy to deal with over Dylan was the epitome of her selfish, "I only really care about Josh" self. 

I kind of wonder if they simply stopped writing "bad" Josh because it didn't exactly fit Newman.

If I had five minutes with Marland's ghost, the two questions I'd ask (right now anyway, lol) are 1) why did you break my Kirk/Iva fan heart, and 2) what were you going to do with Vanessa? 

Speaking of recasts that are hard to accept, add Jennifer Cooke's Morgan to the list. Granted, Kristen Vigard looks 14 throughtout her time on the show, but Cooke just isn't Morgan.

22 minutes ago, P.J. said:

While Josh could be a self-righteous dick, they tended to ramp it up to make Reva the victim, which was annoying. The entire town just excused Reva's dumb ass because she "didn't mean" to hurt anyone, which is usually BS. She just hated getting called out on it. The crap she expected Billy to deal with over Dylan was the epitome of her selfish, "I only really care about Josh" self. 

I kind of wonder if they simply stopped writing "bad" Josh because it didn't exactly fit Newman.

If I had five minutes with Marland's ghost, the two questions I'd ask (right now anyway, lol) are 1) why did you break my Kirk/Iva fan heart, and 2) what were you going to do with Vanessa? 

Speaking of recasts that are hard to accept, add Jennifer Cooke's Morgan to the list. Granted, Kristen Vigard looks 14 throughtout her time on the show, but Cooke just isn't Morgan.

When she came back it seemed like a number of characters did support Annie over her, but that was a rarity. 

The age difference with Vigard and JWS did stand out, but she had more of an edge and sincerity. Cooke was just...there. The best I can say is she seemed stronger in the role as she was leaving. 

I think they may have just decided Newman was more appealing as a leading man, although so many writers came in and out during that period.

16 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

As the character mellowed and matured, however, the charming Hulswit fit the part beautifully. Ed could still have a temper, but showed a softer side of himself as well. Hulswit's version made Ed sweeter and (dare I say?) cuddlier.

MH was the Ed I watched growing up so he is Ed to me. I didn't think PS was bad until after Mo died and he was just sour and pursing his lips all the time. I think after Charita died we needed a warm "cuddly" Bauer to anchor the show so I always thought that they needed to bring MH back. I think MOL could have been that Bauer but Rick becomes a mess on his rerun in 95, screwing the woman he thought was his sister growing up, harrassing her about the baby, and seem ing not to feel the least bit of guilt that he screwed the wife of the guy who was like an uncle to him really took the nice out of him. Not the least of which is MOL can't do "intense" without it coming up...weird. 

I just listened to a podcast where the host asked Pam Long (from the audience's questions) why she didn't like the Bauers. It's weird as she says she created Johnny (she didn't) and says "Well I didn't kill any of them," (she killed Hillary. She also says Jeff Ryder knew the history of the show and loved the Bauers, which didn't show on screen.