1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

es, I was just Mitch but when you had to be authenticated it would not take that handle so I had to add in a number.

I get why it's easy to just slap a meaningful number on the end but personally I wish you'd done something like Mitch-WOW or if you were feeling humble, then, Mitch-Okay. 

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Timing is off here a bit....Carmen went into a coma when Bill tackled her as she was pulling a gun (yet again) on Chele at the Bauer house...Carmen hit her head on a step and she was carted off and everyone was like....so do we order a pizza or go out,  no one gave a damn. That was on New Year's Eve.  

I thought I remembered that being earlier in the month but you're right. In fairness, anything with Carmen and Danny/Michelle while St. Alban in the role could put anyone in a coma along with Carmen. 😂

I enjoyed reading all the posts about 2002-2004...more than I enjoyed watching any of that period, when I managed to watch (I think late 2002/early 2003 was the one time things started to click into place for me). The investment even in discussing the bleak last years of the show just reinforces for me that GL could have gone on for a long time if the level of investment had been there for P&G.

I was watching this 1986 Christmas episode. Was this the Christmas episode? Sad to not see Ed and Maureen, or even Ross. I can't imagine how I would have felt watching this back in the day, especially when the closest they get to nostalgia is using Grant Aleksander's return (he'd returned this very month - not sure what exact date) to dust off Beth and Philip flashbacks. 

I did not know Grant played Philip during any of his writer phase. 

I had to laugh at Nick's "help" for Philip, as Beth was alive and he told Philip she was dead (I guess Nick can't guess future scripts) and he urged Philip to keep writing, which clearly didn't last. 

This was essentially a Shayne Christmas. No matter how many times I see Rusty I still think he was gay, especially in the early scenes. The best part of this is probably Reva and Roxie talking about how they have no money to pay his bail - not even $500. Something you'd never get with Reva in later years. 

Jennifer Gatti wasn't a very good actress, but this rougher Dinah is more interesting to me than Paige Turco's generic turn. Dorie is OK but she is very child actress. 

I do enjoy getting the full closing theme, but I have never understood the choice to have this era's closing screen being that bright white background. 

 

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I have never understood the choice to have this era's closing screen being that bright white background.

Because, it's the "guiding light."  Get it?  (Yeah, I think it was stupid, too.)

20 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Wait. Just for clarification. You detested Tom Pelphrey?

Is there a canonical list of all the GL characters you couldn't stand? Buzz, Harley, all other Coopers, Dusay's Alex, TP's Jonathan, it's a start. 

Well since you asked my Christmas gift to you is....

HATED at all times:

Buzz (wins the award..sorry, did not drink the soap industry Kool Aid that Deas was the BEST actor ever...yelling, flapping arms, spitting and as Marcy Walker said "self-indulgent" scene stealing does not a great actor make...and Buzz was a misogynistic ass most times and didn't fit in SF.)

Super Duper Coopers- they were fine when it was just Harley and Frank, but when it was the only intact family all patting themselves on the back on how "RIGHT" they were..nah.

Fairy Tale Island-Rassie..LW just came off as shrill sometimes...but I did start to like her with Danny and then..that ended so she jumped in the sack with the guy who tried to kill her sister and her nephew.

Hated/LIked

Harley-liked her as the tough "river rat" Nola knock off she was when first introduced....liked her okay as a more mature everywoman....HATED her during Kriezman's Love Goddess and Ehlers personal unhappiness came out and made Harley shrill and annoying.

Reva-sometimes loved original recipe Reva (who could hate a drama queen wandering the country side in a big ass wedding dress after her failed ceremony...loved her and H.B. together..shouldnt have worked but did...) HATE Post Resurrection Reva and especially Rauchie making her at the middle aged love goddess when we could all clearly see that time had past...hated her eating story so they had to reach in their asses to come up with something to keep Zimmer's mug on my screen everyday.

Marj's Alex-Marj was a victim of the writing and I felt she never GOT Alex..but sometimes she could be quite good...(Alex facing off with Faux Annie in the Spaulding Attic) the first few weeks she took over for Joan/Alex and they were still writing Alex as smart and powerful..and sometimes she was one of JFP's over the top scenery chewers on crack...popping eyes, hissing, stuttering...(my favorite scene so bad its good Roger convinces Alex the snake that bit her is venomous...she is on top of the Spaulding limo while Roger sucks the venom out..and her alternately schreicking and writing in semeiotic pleasure...so weird..)

Jonathon-again, I did not drink the soap industry Kook Aid...TP's yelling, scenery chewing and attempts at scene stealing (no one could ever top the character in a scene TP would put in a laugh like Jonathon was NEVER ever going to loose.) TP was good as Reva's spawn from hell...sociopathic oddball, but romantic antihero...no...and I think TP left at the best time..)

I also thought Matt, Frank, Rusty, Gus... all the nonentities Wheeler brought on, are just boring and useless.

Oh, and I thought Otalia was boring...put sexy CC with someone better then a Kreizman boring creation.

From my home to yours Donna for a Happy New Year!

 

20 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

I get why it's easy to just slap a meaningful number on the end but personally I wish you'd done something like Mitch-WOW or if you were feeling humble, then, Mitch-Okay. 

Uh, okay....

21 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Yes, I was just Mitch but when you had to be authenticated it would not take that handle so I had to add in a number. 

Marah as the stalker would have been great...she would have YEARS of resentment towards Reva disappearing and causing strife and trauma in their lives. She would be a daddy's girl that would see what Reva has done to turn Josh inside and out and I never accepted the Rauch/E & B plot where Marah all of a sudden turned on "Mommy Annie" when the [!@#$%^&*] hit the fan..I would have had her secretly understanding Reva pushing Annie over the edge.  But yea, McKeon couldn't act that out. 

I liked Jonathon and Tammy as a sicko dysfunctional thing....Tammy was always WAY too blond suburbany for a girl whose formative years were spent with her Mommy stripping so I could see her having a masochistic relationship with him out of lack of self esteem. But as soon as they were Twu Wuv I lost interest. In that scene Pelphery was definitely leaning into a sexual vibe deliberately trying to turn Sandathon on...I imagine it must have really freaked TPTB out.  Which leads to my plot, which I think was based on those tattoos that Jeffie, Sandy and Jonathon had that was never explained...I can't remember, maybe they were call boys with Jeffie as their pimp..Jonathon being part of a sexual scam operation with his daddy's look alike as the head of it would have been just the kind of stuff I think Pelphery would like to play out..I think he was bored with the generic bad boy with the heart of gold, so he starting chewing that damn scenery...Anyway .anything to really get the Brad Cole cows upset and get him off my screen. 

I am glad to know you are also just Mitch. I found your commentary very amusing. The more I think about it, I think you proposed that the call boy situation was a cover for some spy ring too. I thought it definitely would have made the fanbases lose their minds. 

I think Marah took Reva's prison stint hard. There was a rather noted confrontation where Marah really laid into Reva, but I don't think Lindsey McKeon was very good in it. Truthfully, I try not to remember too much of McKeon in 2002 because I had the misfortune of watching the "Rape Me Tony" scene at a neighbor's house with their 8 year old grandchild (my neighbor was a GL fan as well). 

The first round of Jonathan/Tammy (September-November, 2004) was wonderful. When it was all about Jonathan enacting revenge, it was quite good. There was just something deliciously twisted about that being the angle that Jonathan took to hurt Reva. There was the added element that Tammy had been raised by Richard that I don't remember being mentioned too often. I also wish they had explored what actually happened on the mountain when Sandy left Jonathan for dead because they had two different versions of the story. 

I thought Sandy became interesting as the imposter son, but that they needed to explore that background. What motivated him to do that? There was a comment made by Frank DiCoupolous of all people at some event around December, 2004, that the audience would be shocked to learn who Sandy's mother really was. The general thought was they were going to try to make him Annie's son. The stuff with Ava later on was half baked at best, but I wasn't watching much by then. 

The crazy thing about the Twu Luv stuff was they didn't make any strong attempts to repair any of the harm done, and then they leaned into it even harder. I remember Jonathan saved Tammy from a fire and that was it redemption moment. Maybe a single episode in the summer of 2005. I thought the most insane thing was having Jonathan being the one to try in Sandy for the bigamy charges. I get Jonathan wanting to make Sandy suffer, but it humiliated Tammy.

I was curious about Justin Klosky's return in 2006 so I watched just Jonathan/Tammy/Joey/Lizzie scenes from March, 2006. It was wild seeing them bring Joey back for a few episodes, play up a very nice (as well as rushed) reunion between Joey and Tammy and still have Tammy choose Jonathan. It was also wild because they had Lizzie comment how if they hadn't drugged Joey than Jonathan/Tammy wouldn't have happened. 

I think if Tammy and Jonathan were portrayed as the toxic couple they were and how Jonathan ultimately was playing on her insecurities and how Tammy enabled Jonathan's violent impulsivity there would have been something to explore. Instead, Love Conquered All until Tammy died. 

20 hours ago, Khan said:

OMG, I remembered those tattoos, lol!

As I recall, Conboy/Weston often would introduce some random plot point that was forgotten almost as soon as it was mentioned.  Jonathan/JB came later, of course, but your mention of those tats, @Mitch64, brought this to mind.

I remember that happened a lot during that time period and, occasionally, it would be revisited randomly. I remember Russ Anderson talking about how his character, Christopher Langham, had a secret but he was never told what it was. 

19 hours ago, Dan said:

I thought I remembered that being earlier in the month but you're right. In fairness, anything with Carmen and Danny/Michelle while St. Alban in the role could put anyone in a coma along with Carmen. 😂

I don't remember if Carmen was offcanvas after Danny's "death" in November. I had forgotten about that story until I was looking through clips. There might have been a gap which is why you thought she was off earlier. 

On 12/29/2023 at 2:11 PM, dc11786 said:

Raunch and Labine were never going to work. I´ll agree on that. I don´t think Labine was a bad fit though, but she was certainly hired for the wrong reasons. Given her track record at ¨General Hospital,¨ it appeared CBS and P&G wanted her to continue to turn GL into CBS daytime´s answer to ¨The Sopranoes.¨ I think early 1990s ¨Guiding Light¨ tonally is something that Labine could have worked within. Also, if the woman could bring life into ¨Love of Life,¨ than I don´t think GL was too conservative for her lol.

I don't know that MADD, or whoever was actually in charge by that point, had a singular vision of what they wanted the Labines or anyone else to do at GL.  No sooner were they out than Reva was time-traveling through paintings, which was pretty much the polar opposite of what I imagine anyone would have thought to hire Claire Labine to write.  And then only a few months after that, the tone completely shifted again: to family/medical drama.  Incidentally, the main plotline in that next phase borrowed heavily from at least one classic soap story originally written by—checks notes—Claire Labine (arguably two.  My understanding is she wrote daytime's first story about taking someone off life support on Ryan's Hope in 1975, although it's just as likely the 2002 GL story was directly "inspired" by more recent entries like ATWT).

Of course, Labine's experience (especially everything that's been written about Love of Life) was a perfectly good fit for what GL should have been in the 21st century.  And of course she and Rauch were doomed to be a terrible creative match, but I suspect the larger issue by that point was that CBS/P&G were never going to stay out of any head writer's way long enough for them to succeed.  See the past few pages analyzing the weeks/months' worth of material generated by the half dozen or so configurations of writing teams in the subsequent year or two.  I'm sorry Labine wasn't given the chance to do what she did best.

Edited December 31, 20232 yr by DeliaIrisFan

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

Well since you asked my Christmas gift to you is....

HATED at all times:

Buzz (wins the award..sorry, did not drink the soap industry Kool Aid that Deas was the BEST actor ever...yelling, flapping arms, spitting and as Marcy Walker said "self-indulgent" scene stealing does not a great actor make...and Buzz was a misogynistic ass most times and didn't fit in SF.)

Super Duper Coopers- they were fine when it was just Harley and Frank, but when it was the only intact family all patting themselves on the back on how "RIGHT" they were..nah.

Fairy Tale Island-Rassie..LW just came off as shrill sometimes...but I did start to like her with Danny and then..that ended so she jumped in the sack with the guy who tried to kill her sister and her nephew.

Hated/LIked

Harley-liked her as the tough "river rat" Nola knock off she was when first introduced....liked her okay as a more mature everywoman....HATED her during Kriezman's Love Goddess and Ehlers personal unhappiness came out and made Harley shrill and annoying.

Reva-sometimes loved original recipe Reva (who could hate a drama queen wandering the country side in a big ass wedding dress after her failed ceremony...loved her and H.B. together..shouldnt have worked but did...) HATE Post Resurrection Reva and especially Rauchie making her at the middle aged love goddess when we could all clearly see that time had past...hated her eating story so they had to reach in their asses to come up with something to keep Zimmer's mug on my screen everyday.

Marj's Alex-Marj was a victim of the writing and I felt she never GOT Alex..but sometimes she could be quite good...(Alex facing off with Faux Annie in the Spaulding Attic) the first few weeks she took over for Joan/Alex and they were still writing Alex as smart and powerful..and sometimes she was one of JFP's over the top scenery chewers on crack...popping eyes, hissing, stuttering...(my favorite scene so bad its good Roger convinces Alex the snake that bit her is venomous...she is on top of the Spaulding limo while Roger sucks the venom out..and her alternately schreicking and writing in semeiotic pleasure...so weird..)

Jonathon-again, I did not drink the soap industry Kook Aid...TP's yelling, scenery chewing and attempts at scene stealing (no one could ever top the character in a scene TP would put in a laugh like Jonathon was NEVER ever going to loose.) TP was good as Reva's spawn from hell...sociopathic oddball, but romantic antihero...no...and I think TP left at the best time..)

I also thought Matt, Frank, Rusty, Gus... all the nonentities Wheeler brought on, are just boring and useless.

Oh, and I thought Otalia was boring...put sexy CC with someone better then a Kreizman boring creation.

From my home to yours Donna for a Happy New Year!

 

Uh, okay....

You just can't imagine how happy this list makes me!!! I both strongly disagree & strongly agree with you, which is like, soap fan heaven. Of course, I have to draw the line at Otalia, so imagine me with my fingers in my ears going "lalalalalalalal can'thear you lalalalalal"

I am wondering if MADD weren't the biggest problem GL had. From her press comments and what people said about her input, she seemed to cause so much turmoil and damage with the show. If she can say the "Wizened old man" comment in print, what was she saying and doing behind the scenes? That's the history of soaps I suppose: execs who never get out of the writers and producers' way so that it's show by committee. I was trying to remember the last time I cared enough about GL to watch the show and it was the end of Conboy's tenure and a little bit into Wheeler's. It all just collapsed for me as I didn't care anything about Jonathan or Tom Pelphrey (still don't get his appeal). Obviously, Maureen's death kept me away from the show for a long while but it was really the Jonathan era that severed any remaining fondness I had for the show. It was so easy with AW to pinpoint my break (Frankie's death) with that show, but with GL, I always hoped the show would right itself even if I stopped watching for months or years. There would be a story of performance that piqued my interest (Nicole Forrester's underrated performance for ex.) but I didn't even care enough to watch its last episodes. I still haven't even though I've seen Tina Sloan's monologue about Maureen.

44 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I am wondering if MADD weren't the biggest problem GL had.

The thing about her, & also about Rauch, is that for all the bad there was also good. She was a fierce defender of her shows. She wielded power, sometimes in a good way. She was responsible for a number of people getting their jobs or being promoted from within. And, when she retired & they also retired the position of Exec in Charge of Production, it became obvious that she'd done a lot of good that wasn't noticed until it was missing. 

Of course, there is no way that "wizened old man" is ever forgivable.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

It was so easy with AW to pinpoint my break [...] but with GL, I always hoped the show would right itself even if I stopped watching for months or years.

I still say GL needed two years and minimal interference from CBSD and P&G in order to become watchable again.  Not great, but not bad enough to make you want to vomit either.

54 minutes ago, Khan said:

I still say GL needed two years and minimal interference from CBSD and P&G in order to become watchable again.  Not great, but not bad enough to make you want to vomit either.

I agree. It always felt that the show would start to right itself and head in the right direction, and then changes would be inexplicably made to make the show even worse so all progress was lost. With AW after a certain point, it felt that they were making choices for the sole purpose of alienating viewers. Was this happening at GL too?

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

With AW after a certain point, it felt that they were making choices for the sole purpose of alienating viewers

August 19, 1996

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

With AW after a certain point, it felt that they were making choices for the sole purpose of alienating viewers. Was this happening at GL too?

I would say so, @chrisml. 

In years past, GL had three main selling points: its' actors, who were among the best in the industry (God bless Betty Rea!); its' emphasis on families (the Bauers, the Spauldings, the Chamberlains, the Reardons, the Lewises and Shaynes, the Norrises, Thorpes and Marlers); and its' 70-plus years of history.  Even when GL would experience a bit of a rough patch - like during the mid-'80's, when the Bauers were being phased out and the show itself was doing crazy things like Largo programming Billy Lewis to kill Kyle Sampson - you still had this feeling that although P&G wanted GL to keep up with all the trends, they also did not want to risk alienating longtime fans too much or tamper with its' reputation within the industry.

IOW, there was a consistency to the quality of acting and day-to-day writing on GL that helped the show through many a bad story and that was tough to beat.

An episode from March 1980 and the uploader says more to come!