46 minutes ago, j swift said:

Ms. Phelps holds a BFA in directing from Carnegie Mellon University, awarded in 1972. At a time when women were underrepresented in directing programs, she was one of the few women in her graduating class. To suggest that she possessed no further talents than completely changing the style of music used on soaps seems like a vast underestimate when one reads her online biography through an objective lens.

It makes sense that she got a degree in directing. I've always said she should have been a director. I think she works better at the technical aspects of the show. I think her problem is the emotion/heart of a show.  She always guts the heart of the show she's on and she makes decisions that stop longtime viewers from watching a show. I don't think it's sexism to call that out especially as I've said similar things about Conboy. I've called out Rauch for much worse. 

8 minutes ago, chrisml said:

It makes sense that she got a degree in directing. I've always said she should have been a director. I think she works better at the technical aspects of the show. I think her problem is the emotion/heart of a show.  She always guts the heart of the show she's on and she makes decisions that stop longtime viewers from watching a show. I don't think it's sexism to call that out especially as I've said similar things about Conboy. I've called out Rauch for much worse. 

JFP has had more defense for her decades of terrible producing than many male producers ever had.

A degree does not make one an expert at their job, it just shows that you can follow directions from a technical standpoint.  It doesn't mean that they're creative.

JFP was all about the look of a show without considering that technical beauty can only carry a show so far if there is nothing interesting to go along with it. 

Equality means calling out flaws equally in both genders. 

I tend to stay out of EP discussions, simply because I rarely know who EPs when. And they all have their good and bad sides. But how are we supposed to judge JFP on anything other than what we see? I didn't know she was a director or a music director. (and unlike say, Chris Goutman, I never saw her credited as anything other than an EP)

Specifically in the matter of casting Crampton, she took credit for it (or at Crampton gave her credit for it, whatever) and it was arguably, one of the worst recasts of the '90's (and either as bad or worse than the actress she fired).  She lost two important actresses in '92 and still decided to kill Maureen. 

She had a wildly uneven tenure at GL. It's no wonder she's polarizing. But it kind of proves a point--great soap is always a that rare combination of everything clicking at the same time. 

And believe me, if I could bring myself to watch her male successors who were responsible for bringing back Reva and allowing her to eat the show again, or hiring Hunt Block, or being too chicken to stand up to stans who and hamstrung the show with boring couples stuck in the same repetitive stories (Vanessa/Matt, Chelle/Danny or Richard/Cassie, take your pick) not to mention San CristoHELL....I'd be more than happy to roast them on open spits. I guess we end up talking about JFP because she's in a period we can nominally agree was one of the last "best" periods of the show.

Edited May 5May 5 by P.J.

3 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Jill GL 1989-1994

Correction, July 1991 to May 1995.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

we end up talking about JFP because she's in a period we can nominally agree was one of the last "best" periods of the show.

JFP got the ratings up during her first year, but it also helped that ABC big three were tanking at various times during that year and Days was in their post-supercouple/pre-Reilly mess era.

It will always disappoint me that the ratings during the Calhoun/Long/Curlee era did not reflect the quality of the show.

6 minutes ago, kalbir said:

JFP got the ratings up during her first year, but it also helped that ABC big three were tanking at various times during that year and Days was in their post-supercouple/pre-Reilly mess era.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you?

Are you suggesting that her success at GL should have an asterisk next to it because she was smart enough to exploit a weakness in the marketplace to gain ratings? 

Note: Try not to take this personally—I’m not accusing anyone of being consciously misogynistic. I’m simply proposing that the origins of certain ideas about Ms. Phelps—such as claims that she was unprepared or a poor manager of her writing staff—may be rooted in misogyny. Perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight, it's worth reconsidering those opinions. At the very least, imagine being one of the few women in the room while a male network executive tries to decide what women want to watch during the day. That context has certainly led me to reassess many of my own long-held views.

3 minutes ago, j swift said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding you?

Are you suggesting that her success at GL should have an asterisk next to it because she was smart enough to exploit a weakness in the marketplace to gain ratings? 

No asterisk. I meant that the circumstances during the first year were in her favor.

54 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Correction, July 1991 to May 1995.

JFP got the ratings up during her first year, but it also helped that ABC big three were tanking at various times during that year and Days was in their post-supercouple/pre-Reilly mess era.

It will always disappoint me that the ratings during the Calhoun/Long/Curlee era did not reflect the quality of the show.

It surprises/disappoints me too that GL's ratings during '89-'93 don't reflect the quality of the show. But when I call it great soap, I'm not defining that by ratings either. 

I'm probably in the minority, but I think Reilly takes something intangible with him when he goes. There's a sense of humor that just disappears in '93. 

There is no dispute that Jill Farren Phelps had a successful career in daytime based on longevity, but that does not preclude discussion and dislike of her decisions at various shows.

Sure there may have been some misogyny involved BITD(we don't know as I don't recall JFP ever mentioning that) but the head of CBS Daytime at that point was a woman and there were other women involved BTS. I think that so long as an EP could deliver, or at least talk a good game they would be respected.

 

57 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

There is no dispute that Jill Farren Phelps had a successful career in daytime based on longevity, but that does not preclude discussion and dislike of her decisions at various shows.

Sure there may have been some misogyny involved BITD(we don't know as I don't recall JFP ever mentioning that) but the head of CBS Daytime at that point was a woman and there were other women involved BTS. I think that so long as an EP could deliver, or at least talk a good game they would be respected.

And the most detailed discussion I've seen from an industry figure about some of JFP's worst choices as a producer (steamrolling over writers) was from another woman, Megan McTavish.

Edited May 5May 5 by DRW50

This opening scene is hilarious...it's like someone wrote out the script for Philip with one hand. And Rick...sniffing a scarf over and over. And in their next scene they are still sniffing the [!@#$%^&*] scarf as the camera stays all over Philip's bare chest and armpits as he keeps working out. Insane stuff.

 

Edited May 5May 5 by DRW50

11 hours ago, j swift said:

I guess that I should be more clever than to constantly blame misogyny for these misguided interpretations of her management style.  But, I'll never comprehend why fans unquestionably align their opinions even years after fact. Post-modernism, and the ability to reinterpret context through the study of history, seems to elude this conversation.

Jill Farren Phelps was always very skilled at saying what she meant onscreen in the bluntest way possible, like whenever she wanted fans to support one character vs. the other (hence Megan McTavish groaning about having to write Kale Browne's Sam Rappaport into three days a week at OLTL). Perhaps you should consider doing the same. Historically your intent is always far more obvious than your efforts at coy embroidery anyway.

You believe people are dismissing Phelps' accomplishments, and suggest misogyny and fan blinders allow people to too easily pigeonhole and dismiss her skill set. I think we all understand her varied skill set. We're saying it's not enough to make up for her deficiencies as a storyteller and creative. JFP was undoubtedly a skilled technical producer. As a solo storyteller, and de facto HW, she was a repeat and predictable failure. She was not the first or last EP (male or female) to think she was a writer.

If you want us to stop taking your behavior personally when you suggest misogyny is at play in board opinions of JFP, perhaps you should consider spending the next 10+ years here not acting like you're the only one who gets it.

Edited May 5May 5 by Vee

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Jill Farren Phelps was always very skilled at saying what she meant onscreen in the bluntest way possible, like whenever she wanted fans to support one character vs. the other (hence Megan McTavish groaning about having to write Kale Browne's Sam Rappaport into three days a week at OLTL). Perhaps you should consider doing the same. Historically your intent is always far more obvious than your efforts at coy embroidery anyway.

You believe people are dismissing Phelps' accomplishments, and suggest misogyny and fan blinders allow people to too easily pigeonhole and dismiss her skill set. I think we all understand her varied skill set. We're saying it's not enough to make up for her deficiencies as a storyteller and creative. JFP was undoubtedly a skilled technical producer. As a solo storyteller, and de facto HW, she was a repeat and predictable failure. She was not the first or last EP (male or female) to think she was a writer.

If you want us to stop taking your behavior personally when you suggest misogyny is at play in board opinions of JFP, perhaps you should consider spending the next 10+ years here not acting like you're the only one who gets it.

I do not think I have ever agreed with Vee. Normally I do not read him, Ignore ya know. For some unknown reason I clicked to read. And I agree 1000%. Now, this is so odd that I need to go away for a bit.

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

And the most detailed discussion I've seen from an industry figure about some of JFP's worst choices as a producer (steamrolling over writers) was from another woman, Megan McTavish.

Given some of the things that have been said I am going to quote the preface to an analysis I researched & posted about the desired demos when JFP was EP of AW.

Quote

Disclaimer: I am an outspoken critic of Jill Farren Phelps. I consider her to be a bonafide #SoapKiller. There are only a half dozen people I put that label on & there's only one other who was very related to AW & she is Susan D. Lee. Fans of JFP claim that she got the ratings up at AW when she was EP. Wikipedia says she got the most desired demo W18-49 up by 34%. JFP was EP at AW from May 1995 to Sept. 1996, so for 69 weeks, or 5.3 business quarters/entertainment cycles which are 13 weeks each.

An analysis of JFP's effect on the demo W18-49 at Another World in 1995-96.

And, that is more than enough about that, from me.

 

 I’ll take a pass on the lecture, because you've overestimated my concern with your feedback, but thanks for the enthusiasm.

Your claims of not wanting to get into an argument over every post are unfortunately voided by your impulsive need to add into respectful discourse that is none of your concern.

I'm never certain why you feel there is a consensus that allows you to refer to yourself in the first-person plural (we all).  However, I appreciate someone who re-assesses their beliefs from time to time, and is willing to express new opinions.  Rather than avoiding the type of reflection that many have said they would appreciate, among scriptwriters.

Finally, you may wish to check the definition of coy, because you've used it incorrectly twice in reference to my writing.  I promise that I do not intend to be coy with you.  Or don't look it up, and just continue to be incorrect, as usual.  I only ask that if you cannot control yourself, please stop tagging me.

 

Edited May 5May 5 by j swift