Jump to content

Guiding Light Discussion Thread


Paul Raven

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 17.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

  • Members

I get why people hate Reva, and I get that a lot of her stories were awful. I just generally enjoyed Zimmer's work and how she never phoned it in, even when most actors did. Reva never should have been written as a dull heroine but I felt like Zimmer usually played against that anyway.

Most of my angst over GL occurred when the show was still on, during the years I had stopped watching. So now, while I still feel some angst, I was happy I got to say goodbye properly (which I didn't with ATWT, but I've already gone on about that) and can look back, especially at some of the material I didn't get to see the first time around.

Looking at the older (1979-80) clips of Holly, she seems so much more placid than what she was when MG returned in 1989. You usually see soap actresses, as they age, try to cling to some sort of parody of an ingenue. Garrett never did that, and it really breathed new life into Holly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That video was made in 1995. For me the rape is a factor in the relationship, but it isn't all there is. As you saw in the video, this wasn't forgotten or glamorized like with other shows.

The voices of the various actors on GL were so specific, you could almost just listen to the show and know who was on screen.

I was the same way when I first saw Chris Bernau, I was in shock at how wonderful he was.

In 1996, GL split the opening into two one was the "Reva" version and the other was the "Roger" version. I don't think Reva or Roger was the most popular character of all time when it comes to GL, but Bert. :)

In Roger's mind, Ross was a villain and originally the character was supposed to be only very short term (6-9 months) being bad. Everyone in town was able to forgive Ross and he became a respected part of the community, while Roger never could get over his past. Ed, who Roger always hated became Ross's best friend for example, and Ross was able to turn Blake against both Roger and Holly. Holly and Ross dealt with his part of what happened, and it was acknowledged with lines like how until Holly came back to town the only person who didn't like him was Alan. Another scene that touched upon this was after Ross/Holly had broken up and Vanessa was dealing with her attempted rape, Holly was telling Vanessa the importance of pressing charges on the guy who did this to her, while Ross looked on and the scene was just brimming with subtext.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The show could have easily swept Roger & Holly away and thrown the into the forgotten box with other characters from the 70's, but I'm still amazed and grateful they chose to bring them back. Though their second stint, a whole new generation of fans got to see what was so dynamic and special about their relationship and each character as a separate entity.

Not that awards mean much of anything, but I still think it's a shame Garrett never won an Emmy for her contributions to GL. Then again, she never chewed scenery, yelled all of her lines, or went to the press to pimp herself or any hidden agenda, so it was easy to overlook her sometimes. She could convey so much emotion with one facial expression, which a lot of actors cannot do convincingly anymore.

I myself preferred the more confident and glamourized Holly that returned in '89 to the plain Jane version from the late 70's, though. There was something very sexy and sensual about Garrett's portrayal when she returned that I loved. It was the same old Holly, but both Garrett and character had blossomed and come in to their own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think Roger might have always been a candidate for return, if Zaslow wanted to return, because he was so remembered (Schemering saying about his original run that "viewers would not let him die.") Today, they would never bring Holly back, they'd just have Roger with sweet young things. Holly was the key component to Roger as a character and I'm glad Calhoun (?) and Nancy Curlee and Pam Long knew this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

In my mind, Roger and Holly is the most complex story a daytime drama has ever told. Nothing ever touched anything like it before, not even Luke and Laura, and though there were a few stories in the seventies, early 1980, and early nineties that could have touched them, I think nothing will ever touch anywhere near Roger and Holly ever again. No one cares enough anymore to take that kind of care that was taken with the continuing saga of Roger Thorpe and Holly Norris.

If Ron Carlivati thinks any of the laughable drops he's ever penned comes close to ANYTHING that the eighties and nineties gave us daytime viewers, then obviously he never actually watched daytime drama in the eighties and nineties, no matter what he has to say on the subject.

We have our memories and they are better than anything these hacks of today are churning out.

Edited by katie_9918
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

^^ And it's not like our memories are faulty -- YouTube, Hulu etc all confirm what we have known for a long time!

I feel moved by all your contributions to my post about Holly and Roger and GL. These were all very personal, sober and meaningful reflections on H & R that seem to mirror the depth and intensity of what I have seen in clips. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving me your assessment. I am so excited to have discovered an aspect of GL I previously knew little about. I am almost as breathless watching some of these episodes as perhaps some of you were when you first saw them screened. Having your input has allowed me to appreciate the show as a whole. I felt this way when I discovered AW via Ryan & Anne Heche's Vicky, and it opened up an entire world. The same is now true of GL -- like I discovered a whole new country which is so rich and lush.

But as always with these things, it is bittersweet to see all this promise and mastery squandered because of -- let's face it -- greed, incompetence and (possibly) internal politics. It is crazy to me that true writers and lovers of the genre like Nancy Curlee, Sheri Anderson, Claire Labine (Love of Life and GH, I'm thinking) and the man who wrote EON almost all through its run are nowhere to be found in Daytime. Like they were so good at their job in certain instances that some kind of latent jealousy meant they were tossed aside for mediocrity. Because TIIC felt we, the viewers, didn't deserve any better.

Re: Holly's return in 1990 -- I can see the difference between her in the 70s and 1980 and the later Holly, and I think it is organic. Holly took Chrissie to Switzerland, and she became more sophisticated and mature in some ways. She'd seen a little more of the world. She'd grown, evolved, she wasn't stuck in a 1980s mindset. I think I like her better as this Holly because of all the new edges, her wit, her newfound strength coupled with lingering vulnerabilites. She is so human. It is these kind of women on Daytime that were role models (for lack of a better word) for me. I wanted to be them when I grew up, minus the bouts of alcoholism or other terrible events that befell them.

Khan/CarlD, I made an offhand reference to Reva in the 1980s which came out too b&w. I have been enjoying Big Reva in the full episodes of GL I have chanced upon, but what I like is that she is one of many strong characters woven into the fabric of the show. In later years I found that GL became a bit The Reva Show. KZ has not always been my cup of tea (she ate up SB and hastened its cancellation IMO) but there is no denying her commitment to her roles.

Well, onward and upward in my belated viewing of classic GL!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I totally agree that it makes sense for Holly to have changed during the 9 years she was off the show. From what I can read from old 1980 summaries, after Roger's fall, she stayed on the show for several months and seemed like she was a zombie during that time. From what I can tell, she basically fell for Ed again while feeling guilt about coming between him and Rita. Plus, it seemed like she had some doubts about her brother Andy when he first came back to town. Reading this, I can see why Maureen Garrett bailed from the show when her contract expired. 1978-April 1980 were very exciting times for the character.. and then to spend the next seven to eight months doing nothing would be such a whip-lash for any performer.

With that said, I think had the character not left in late 1980, I dont forsee her becoming the assertive, snarky character that she was when she returned back in circa 89/90. With that said, do you think the character could have found a place on canvas post 1980? Or do you think it was logical for Holly to leave town and start anew for several years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think the years away did Holly (and Maureen Garrett) a ton of good, although I doubt either would have returned, had it not been for Michael Zaslow and Nancy Curlee's efforts. By 1989, Roger and Holly were "ancient history" to GUIDING LIGHT.

At the risk of sounding again like a Marland apologist, though, I feel MG was a trifle impatient -- but, I must concede, not totally unjustified -- for leaving GL when she did. For one thing, Marland had said at the outset that he needed to beef up GL's younger set as well as introduce a blue-collar element (namely, the Reardon clan) onto the canvas. Was it unfortunate how some characters, including Holly, got lost in that shuffle (some more permanently than others)? Definitely. In fact, I can't recall the exact interview or quote, but I know I've read somewhere how Marland would have loved to have written more for all the existing characters. However, when P&G had tapped him to replace Bridget and Jerome Dobson, it was with a mandate that he'd make the show more competitive with GH, a show that, under Marland's own pen, had acquired a younger audience with faster-paced stories featuring younger characters. (And before anyone questions Marland's own veracity, bear in mind how P&G subsequently passed down similar mandates to Pam Long and Jeff Ryder, telling the two to de-emphasize the Bauers and Reardons, as well as many characters from Marland's term, and go after both GH and DALLAS/DYNASTY fans, as well as displaced TEXAS fans.)

Moreover, MG was coming off a major story and triangle (that of Holly/Roger/Ed) that had been front-burner for the past two years, if not longer. In fact, I'd argue how that story -- and in particular, MG's chemistry with MZ -- had come to define Holly's and MG's place within the show. With Roger and MZ gone, though, and the triangle kaput, where did that leave Holly, and MG? I wouldn't say Marland had no idea what to do with a Roger-less Holly. If anything, judging from actors who had benefitted from his work, I think MG was the sort of performer Marland loved writing for. But I do believe most HW's would need a little time to figure out what to do with a character who had been part of a huge story for such a long period of time. And who knows, once Marland had set up what he needed to, he might have come back to Holly, along with some others he had to neglect in the meantime. Of course, by that point, MG was long out the door (and over at RYAN'S HOPE), so now, we'll never know. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   1 member




  • Recent Posts

    • What a wonderful photo! It really is a shame that Peacock will not show those early years. I know I'd love to see them!
    • With the death of Days and GH actress, Denise Alexander, someone posted this in the Days thread, a '60s-era photo of some of the cast, which lists the names. In the upper left, is a young Susan Flannery, who obviously ended up playing Stephanie Forrester on B&B, who was one of a few actresses to play Dr. Laura Horton [mother to Mike and Jennifer Horton] on Days. Here is a link to the photo: https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/38014-days-behind-the-scenes-articlesphotos/?do=findComment&comment=2022200  
    • https://parade.com/news/days-of-our-lives-star-susan-seaforth-hayes-pays-heartfelt-tribute-to-denise-alexander-a-friend-to-treasure

      Please register in order to view this content

    • Sorry, there must have been a error, while creating the file. I redone it and it has audio
    • Tamara Tunie was on a local CBS affiliate in Baltimore the other day talking about a few things she had going on, BTG amongst them: "Beyond the Gates" star Tamara Tunie is in Baltimore for the Reginald F. Lewis Museum's 20th anniversary
    • Kobe/Long had their own template and pretty much gutted the cast. As soon as contracts were up established characters were dropped. They needed to free the budget for the new characters. Going back to Ann,I wonder why the Dobsons renewed her contract around 78? After her initial story she became supporting and they didn't seem to want to pursue a romance with Mike. Maybe the feedback was that viewers blamed her indirectly for Leslie's death. If Mike hadn't taken on her case etc. Did she decide not to disrupt her son's life? Seems odd after everything she didn't claim him back. 1976 continues... Joe Werner is just not bouncing back after his recovery as he should, and Sarah, concerned about his sometimes morbid-seeming depression, consults Justin Marler. They agree that Joe is becoming a “cardiac cripple,” and know this kind of overcompensation for illness and overprecaution can not only be a permanently depressed condition but can actually cause a setback for him physically.  Marler releases Joe into Sarah’s care, but it’s soon apparent that just being out of the hospital hasn’t done anything to boost Joe’s spirits about his return to a normal existence. Marler finally lays it out to Joe—the choice has to be his. He can choose to lead a normal, productive life as a doctor and as a husband to the best wife he could have, or he can choose to become an invalid and live on the outside looking in for the rest of his days, sentencing Sarah to the same fate. Realizing the selfishness of what he’s doing to —Sarah as well as the narrowness of the confinement he’s set for himself, Joe begins to see his preoccupation with his illness as the self-pity it really is and decides he’s ready to return to the hospital for a one hour shift each day. Sarah is overjoyed by his turnabout, but full happiness is hers on the day she overhears Joe telling a fearful patient that the world is beautiful and worth any. effort to get back into it. Steve and Adam are thrilled to learn that Cedars has been the recipient of the Levy Grant for expansion of hospital property. But they have learned, as they report to Ed, that the land they were hoping to build the new research facility on, the land immediately adjacent to the hospital, has been purchased by Dr. Justin Marler. Both Adam and Steve feel that Justin is expanding a power base at Cedars and the land purchase is just one more block in Justin’s power play. When Ed asks Marler why he purchased this particular parcel of land, Marler explains that he bought it with the express intention of someday building his own offices and facilities convenient to the major facilities of Cedars. When the subject of the hospital’s needing the land arises, Marler meets with Adam, and they agree that he should realize a fair profit from his property and that an unbiased assessor should be engaged to evaluate the market value of the land so they can agree on a selling price. When Sarah comments on the fact that Marler is to realize a profit on the land, he bitterly replies that no matter what he’s done since coming to Cedars to prove that he has changed. since she last knew him, she refuses to see him as anything but what he was all those years ago. Sarah insists this isn’t true. But Marler then calls Adam for a meeting and informs him that the land is not for sale at any price. As Adam begins to grow alarmed, Marler continues that the site for the new building will be his personal donation to the hospital. As Adam expresses profuse thanks and appreciation, Marler wryly notes that the tax deductions he’ll realize on this contribution to a charitable institution will benefit himself almost as much as Cedars. When Steve Jackson learns that Marler is to be elected head of the research wing that will be built on his property, he expresses the conviction that this was the exact intention of the gift. Adam, however, assures Steve that the donation wasn’t a factor in the hospital  board’s decision, they were concerned only with Dr. Marler’s reputation as a doctor. | After lengthy consultations and meetings. with the hospital  staff, Ed assured by the head nurse that her nurses performed commendably despite the added pressure of the train wreck, presents his findings to the hospital review board. Steve arrives at two possible explanations for the facts. Either Grainger, more active than usual due to the previously delayed medication, reached for the writing pad and inadvertently disconnected the breathing tubes, or he was in a state of extreme upset because of the delayed medication and.in the excitement a surge of adrenalin within his system caused his brain aneurism to start hemorrhaging. " Upon learning that the review board has ruled out negligence in Grainger’s death, Ed tells Rita, who takes her first free breath in a long time. But Ed hasn’t thought to tell Rita that he’s been in touch with Grainger’s attorney, Mr. Schafer, who, knowing that a woman was at the base of Grainger’s investigation, is coming to Springfield to try to find out who the woman - was who walked out on Grainger when he collapsed —in the restaurant. Peggy, learning that Rita’s “forgetting” to deliver Holly’s message was instrumental in their divorce ‘being finalized, tells Ed that Holly wanted to reach him to stop the divorce. Immediately after, Peggy is torn by doubts, wondering if she did the right thing.She confides in Barbara, who then discusses the situation with Ed. He tells her he and Holly have discovered a new closeness now that they are building their separate lives. Barbara quickly contradicts him: Holly is not building a new life. Barbara gently cautions Ed, saying, “People change, feelings change, and what seems right now may not be right a year from now. No decision is irrevocable.” Ed agrees with this. Now that Ben has declared his love for her, Hope finds herself apprehensive, fearing that she might be making a mistake, as she did a few years ago, when she was sure she was in love with her college professor. Explaining that she doesn’t want to make another mistake, she asks Ben to be patient, and he agrees. When Mike expresses his disapproval of Ben’s overstated independence, his need to be beholden to no one, Hope quickly jumps to Ben’s defense, and Mike apologizes. But Ben, surprisingly, accepts Mike’s assessment as constructive criticism. Later Hope, examining her feelings and desires, tells Ben she does love him and wants to belong to him. Later that evening, after they’ve made love, Ben asks Hope to marry him.And, delighted, she replies that she will. At Hope’s instigation, Bert has a family dinner to which Ben is invited, and Hope announces their intention to marry over glasses of wine. Mike politely offers best wishes while Bert thrills the couple with her offer to' make a Christmas wedding for them. Bert later tells Mike he must accept this engagement with good spirits for Hope, and later, seeing the joy she’s feeling, he gives his daughter his approval. But Ben finds another problem on his very own doorstep: his brother Jerry, who announces he’s left home after several bad fights with their parents. He refuses to tell Ben what they were fighting about. As Ben is showering, Jerry borrows his car and goes out for an hour. The phone rings, but Ben can’t hear it. Shortly after, two uniformed officers visit Mike at home to tell him that his late wife’s car has been involved in a delicatessen robbery earlier in the evening. Since Ben bought Leslie’s car, Mike accompanies the officers to Ben’s apartment. Ben curtly informs the police that he had nothing to do with the robbery and makes it clear that he feels they wouldn’t be there if he didn’t have a record and that his exoneration doesn’t prevent his being hassled like any ex-con,as they tell him he has to go to the police station for questioning. Hope tells Ben she called him earlier, and when he replies that he must have been in the shower, she accepts his word unhesitatingly.Jerry finally returns to Ben’s place and under questioning from Ben admits that he robbed the store,explaining that he has debts. Ben is now in a quandary,as he feels he must protect his brother but doesn’t want to be unfair to Hope. He tries to ease the situation by withdrawing $185 from the joint checking account he opened with Hope and repaying the delicatessen owner. He then sends Jerry out of town to stay with a friend. His relief at having solved the problem is short-lived, however, when Mike informs him that, despite the reparations, the robbery was a felony and the police will continue to investigate. Hope is badly upset to learn while making a deposit that Ben withdrew’a sum which Mike tells her is equal to the amount stolen. This shakes her belief that he _was really home when she called, and she goes to him, asking for an answer to put her mind at rest. Ben can’t betray Jerry and asks Hope to trust him, promising she will have the whole story eventually. But Hope can’t accept this; she needs complete honesty and openness in her relationship and without it cannot goon. She painfully tells her father that the wedding is off despite her love for Ben, and tells Bert to stop preparations. Mike goes to Ben, reminding him that half the money in the account is Hope’s and she has the right to an answer. But Ben won’t say any more and refuses Mike’s offer to represent him legally, again stating that he doesn’t need a lawyer, because he’s done nothing wrong.     
    • And not since. I recall it was quite small for a house that size. And I don't know why you would walk down a narrow corridor to get to the main living area. I hate when the sets on soaps don't have a logical layout! As for Andre his clothing is fashion forward and suitable for his character.He ain't gonna wear no blazer!
    • The last I remember seeing Ben, he was divorcing Amanda. He came to tell Evie that he still loved her, but was leaving town so that Amanda wouldn't blame Evie for his divorcing her. I'm not exactly sure when, but Evie doesn't leave town until sometime after Nola and Quint's engagement ball. I'm not sure if she leaves before or after Justin leaves in Sept(?) of '83. I grew to like Helena when she became friends with Vanessa, once she's edging her way out of Quint's life.
    • Please register in order to view this content

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy