9 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

IMO, that ship had sailed. They never put Hearst with Ehlers, right?

If they wanted to delve into the past to pair someone with Harley, it should have been Josh. (Yeah, I know).

They never had Heart and Ehlers together as a couple but they had a ton of screen time together just after AM divorced Blake. They were just friends (as much as any two fairly recent exes are) when Harley was with Josh then she kissed him once when she was getting over Josh but he shot her down since he knew she was using him. They then seemed to have them heading in that direction still when Blake re-enters the picture through them working together and Harley takes two computer classes and is a computer genius overnight and consults for AM to keep Roger/John Davis out of the Foundation computers. (I saw this all pretty recently haha). There's some missed episodes in there but Harley doesn't approve of AM's corporate ambitions throughout (sometimes fairly, sometimes just for wearing a suit or for AM thinking it's troubling to have people use his work computer without his knowledge. Any potential romance fizzles when John Davis drugs her to get the Foundation password while she's sleeping and AM is skeptical that she didn't accidentally blurt it which makes Harley mad. When AM is first enchanted by Eleni he had heard Harley was troubled about something I don't recall and went running to the diner to check on Harley, but instead found Eleni looking sad over a dinner she'd cooked for Frank but Frank had gone off with Blake not realizing she'd made him a birthday dinner. Before AM's obsession with Eleni is really known Harley hears that AM had come looking for him and basically ends their relationship/friendship completely. Then it's all Harley/Mallet and AM/Blake/Eleni from there.

I did not mean to write that much-I just really enjoyed that whole John Davis/Roger embezzlement arc. It's too bad they had to make Daniel St. John part of AM's Foundation ambitions. It was a bit funny in my 1993 watch that they had Harley/Mallet on a cruise away from Springfield when John Davis reemerged considering they put Harley on the Spaulding yacht unwillingly for a week to protect her from him.

All that to say Harley/AM were definitely very over (and even more so after everything with Eleni) but I could see them not being able to resist at least teasing going down that road if Rick had come back in 2001 with the Phillip of it all. (I could also just see AM/Harley becoming more like family if Lucy was around especially and taking Harley's side post-divorce to cause tension without a romance.)

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by GL95

8 minutes ago, GL95 said:

Harley takes two computer classes and is a computer genius overnight

LOL, how many careers did Harley have? Sling hash at the diner, waitress, nanny, aspiring fashion designer, computer genius, cop, detective, head of Spaulding...talk about a job hopper! 😂 I'm sure I missed a few.

7 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

LOL, how many careers did Harley have? Sling hash at the diner, waitress, nanny, aspiring fashion designer, computer genius, cop, detective, head of Spaulding...talk about a job hopper! 😂 I'm sure I missed a few.

The computer thing is super hilarious across the board between the 1991 gigantic laptop that apparently needs code to do anything and Harley taking a few weeks of computer courses and instantly being the only person AM can trust with his computer needs. I guess Spaulding didn't have a networked system yet because all the Foundation records were on that one laptop where Harley had set up an unbreakable password.

Definitely one of those suspension of disbelief plots, but I very much enjoyed Roger wanting to steal his money and run away with Mindy but constantly getting thwarted by AM/Harley/Blake showing unexpected professional competence. Blake would be so excited these things she was doing for AM and go running to Roger for his approval who had to act proud while seething internally.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by GL95

46 minutes ago, GL95 said:

They never had Heart and Ehlers together as a couple but they had a ton of screen time together just after AM divorced Blake. They were just friends (as much as any two fairly recent exes are) when Harley was with Josh then she kissed him once when she was getting over Josh but he shot her down since he knew she was using him. They then seemed to have them heading in that direction still when Blake re-enters the picture through them working together and Harley takes two computer classes and is a computer genius overnight and consults for AM to keep Roger/John Davis out of the Foundation computers. (I saw this all pretty recently haha). There's some missed episodes in there but Harley doesn't approve of AM's corporate ambitions throughout (sometimes fairly, sometimes just for wearing a suit or for AM thinking it's troubling to have people use his work computer without his knowledge. Any potential romance fizzles when John Davis drugs her to get the Foundation password while she's sleeping and AM is skeptical that she didn't accidentally blurt it which makes Harley mad. When AM is first enchanted by Eleni he had heard Harley was troubled about something I don't recall and went running to the diner to check on Harley, but instead found Eleni looking sad over a dinner she'd cooked for Frank but Frank had gone off with Blake not realizing she'd made him a birthday dinner. Before AM's obsession with Eleni is really known Harley hears that AM had come looking for him and basically ends their relationship/friendship completely. Then it's all Harley/Mallet and AM/Blake/Eleni from there.

I remember some of this from watching at the time, mainly Harley being drugged with the truth serum. I remember liking the apartment she shared with Mindy. (I also loved Roger's apartment from this timeframe).

Even though they weren't together, I liked Alan-Michael and Harley and was disappointed they didn't go anywhere with them around then. This is probably one of several reasons I intensely disliked Mallet.

(I had no real opinion on Alan-Michael and Eleni as it seemed obvious from the start we weren't meant to root for them as a couple - this started what I saw as a long long period of A-M just being a third or fourth choice of the show until about 1995).

9 hours ago, DeeVee said:

That's a really good way of describing his performance as Alan. I think the word "urbane" also fits. He gave Alan a patrician air (Bev did this with Alex, as well). It's like they were psuedo European aristocrats while still being very American when their ruthless sides came out. Either Raines never picked up on that or it was beyond his acting range.

When I read Bev wanted Daniel Davis to play Alan, at first I thought, no way, the butler from The Nanny? But then I watched some episodes of Texas where he played Elliot Carrington. He gave Elliot that same urbane air. Even though he was not anything like Bernau physically, I do think he could have pulled it off.

Patrician was the word I was trying to come up with, but couldn't. lol. Definitely with British aristocrat vibes.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

LOL, how many careers did Harley have? Sling hash at the diner, waitress, nanny, aspiring fashion designer, computer genius, cop, detective, head of Spaulding...talk about a job hopper! 😂 I'm sure I missed a few.

Baklava entrepreneur and resale shop owner. (lol sounds better than junk store owner..)

@DRW50 Marvel Comics Superhero, The Guiding Light.

3 hours ago, GL95 said:

I believe I read Sonia Satra said she was in negotiations to come back circa 2003/04 but a producer changed scrapped that-I would assume the plan was to bring back AM as well. Guessing that turned into just AM whenever the Marina hookup happened.

They were actually thinking of brining...Lucy, the duck, Cooper back? Of all the characters in GL's rich history...you want to bring Lucy back??? LOL..only Conwest!

40 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

(I had no real opinion on Alan-Michael and Eleni as it seemed obvious from the start we weren't meant to root for them as a couple - this started what I saw as a long long period of A-M just being a third or fourth choice of the show until about 1995).

Eleni was Alan Michael's Reva--an obsession that just made him the spoiler in the Frank/Eleni pairing. (Did anyone REALLY care Frank and Eleni that much? Maybe some did but I sure didn't).

I guess they thought making him manipulative like Alan would work but it kind of ruined AM for me. When he started he was mostly a sweet guy--troubled, because he was young and had difficult parents, but kind of endearing. Yeah, sure, little sparks of Alan came out now and again, but there was also the Bauer side to him. It's just hard to believe that the guy who was so easily manipulated by his father and then by Blake would then turn into a master manipulator.

3 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Eleni was Alan Michael's Reva--an obsession that just made him the spoiler in the Frank/Eleni pairing. (Did anyone REALLY care Frank and Eleni that much? Maybe some did but I sure didn't).

I guess they thought making him manipulative like Alan would work but it kind of ruined AM for me. When he started he was mostly a sweet guy--troubled, because he was young and had difficult parents, but kind of endearing. Yeah, sure, little sparks of Alan came out now and again, but there was also the Bauer side to him. It's just hard to believe that the guy who was so easily manipulated by his father and then by Blake would then turn into a master manipulator.

In theory, I could understand why Alan-Michael became such a schemer and so cold. The problem for me was the execution and the motivation. I never came away from an episode feeling like we were really meant to sympathize with him. I thought he was just an obstacle to a whole slew of characters. I liked the Frank/Eleni relationship (I didn't love them - I think the most interesting period was when Julie was driving a wedge between them)., but the stakes weren't very high to where Alan-Michael needed to keep them apart for so long and then pine for Eleni even longer. Then there was his position at Spaulding, where Alex treated him with disdain and he was a foil for Nick, who was one of the most sanctimonious asses ever on the show. I ended up not rooting for anyone at Spaulding, which is a problem considering Spaulding was a mainstay of the show. Sad to say I probably rooted for Alex more in her drug dealing years than I did her or Nick at this period of time. And then Alan came in, another character I just didn't have an investment in (by the time I'd started watching GL, Alan was gone, so my first experience was this man doing a Mickey Rooney Breakfast at Tiffany's voice).

Rick Hearst has always played third or fourth fiddle in his soap roles, but there was no reason for that to be the case with Alan-Michael. He was a Bauer and a Spaulding. He had the keys to the kingdom. Why they ignored this when Philip left, I never will know.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by DRW50

40 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I remember some of this from watching at the time, mainly Harley being drugged with the truth serum. I remember liking the apartment she shared with Mindy. (I also loved Roger's apartment from this timeframe).

Even though they weren't together, I liked Alan-Michael and Harley and was disappointed they didn't go anywhere with them around then. This is probably one of several reasons I intensely disliked Mallet.

(I had no real opinion on Alan-Michael and Eleni as it seemed obvious from the start we weren't meant to root for them as a couple - this started what I saw as a long long period of A-M just being a third or fourth choice of the show until about 1995).

The AM/Eleni/Frank story dragged on way too long-it irked me that AM was basically a prop for Frank for well over a year plus it was just an excruciating slow motion train wreck for his lies to unravel. I couldn't believe how long they dragged things on post explosion/Mallet injury.

What's kind of funny is I feel like someone saw the summer 1994 plot line for AM as finally giving Rick a spotlight with his quest to find Alan and the wandering the beach as a hobo doing soliloquies about Alan. I have no doubt someone was super excited about Rick and Marcy Walker having all those overly dramatic scenes together as he was recovering.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

LOL, how many careers did Harley have? Sling hash at the diner, waitress, nanny, aspiring fashion designer, computer genius, cop, detective, head of Spaulding...talk about a job hopper! 😂 I'm sure I missed a few.

Yeah - at least one. Add baklava (sp?) maker/seller to that list.

They namedropped Lucy a couple times. I thought it was late Rauch era, they called her up to do some snooping from her end.

16 minutes ago, GL95 said:

The AM/Eleni/Frank story dragged on way too long-it irked me that AM was basically a prop for Frank for well over a year plus it was just an excruciating slow motion train wreck for his lies to unravel. I couldn't believe how long they dragged things on post explosion/Mallet injury.

What's kind of funny is I feel like someone saw the summer 1994 plot line for AM as finally giving Rick a spotlight with his quest to find Alan and the wandering the beach as a hobo doing soliloquies about Alan. I have no doubt someone was super excited about Rick and Marcy Walker having all those overly dramatic scenes together as he was recovering.

I can see why they may have thought Rick was getting a chance, given Marcy's soap pedigree, but nothing about Tangie connected with viewers. It's hard to believe she was only on the show a little over six months by then. I don't think viewers started to warm to Tangie until her last months in the role (if they did).

If Marcy had decided to stay there's definitely a big what if. I imagine she would have ended up into Roger's increasingly desperate schemes, or fought Reva for Alan, but continuing her relationship with Alan-Michael as Lucy/Alan-Michael builds could have been interesting. Maybe she could have been secretly pregnant and kept quiet because she didn't want him to feel obligated to her, only for Brent/Marian to "accidentally" reveal her secret at a party Alan-Michael throws for Lucy.

12 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Eleni was Alan Michael's Reva--an obsession that just made him the spoiler in the Frank/Eleni pairing. (Did anyone REALLY care Frank and Eleni that much? Maybe some did but I sure didn't).

I guess they thought making him manipulative like Alan would work but it kind of ruined AM for me. When he started he was mostly a sweet guy--troubled, because he was young and had difficult parents, but kind of endearing. Yeah, sure, little sparks of Alan came out now and again, but there was also the Bauer side to him. It's just hard to believe that the guy who was so easily manipulated by his father and then by Blake would then turn into a master manipulator.

I watched AM's journey out of order so having seen 1995 first I was predisposed to sympathize with him. I actually think AM's story got taken off course a lot by Blake/Ross not just being a fling. To me, AM was Blake's Frankenstein. There's a scene I loved right before AM/Blake split where he's worried about whatever is happening with Gary and he tries to get her drunk to talk to him, but she is onto him and he sheepishly admits his plan. While he was bad at it, he was starting to learn to manipulate. He wanted nothing to do with her after their divorce but she kept doing things for his career (she took over that Daniel St. John presentation that Roger was trying to thwart without AM's knowledge, and at first you think she's getting revenge but she actually sells it from a PR angle which started them interacting at work). There's a scene just after Roger is exposed where AM is initially pretty content to continue to work his way up but Blake pushes him to fill the vacuum left by Roger's departure. She has a lot of the underhanded ideas initially to go at Vanessa. For instance, when AM flat out refuses to expose Vanessa was the rape victim in the papers Blake is the one who says at least he should try to take advantage of the situation. Blake is pretty much always in his ear. I don't think AM actually instigates anything himself until he blackmails Nadine about talking to the Inquisitors to get Billy's bid. Then when she calls immigration on Eleni, AM under her tutelage is fully ready to go after what he wants and get Eleni to marry him. (One of the things Phillip was most worried about leaving was AM being influenced by Roger/Blake-ironically he asks Ross to look after AM for him.)

Obviously AM then proceeds to treat Blake shabbily which is a big part of why Ross sympathizes with her, but a lot of that was some pretty severe self-sabotage/self-loathing by Blake as she really kept coming back for more and she was still manipulating him the whole time but now he was more hardened and knew what she was doing. I found the Blake/AM dynamic really interesting in that period where he's basically leading her on, as he's basically an ass regardless of what he does at that point. If he drops her from his life/the company she has nothing at all left, but even if he does better at maintaining boundaries there's no way she doesn't push right past them.

With how connected Blake/Frank were when AM/Eleni first got married I actually think they wanted a period of a quadrangle of Blake/AM/Frank/Eleni with Blake/AM eventually getting back together after learning things from "good" people-softened some but still coloring outside the lines (because of course AM gets sucked into Roger's empire plans haha). I do think they were floundering a bit once Blake was taken away as a long-term option for AM.

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I can see why they may have thought Rick was getting a chance, given Marcy's soap pedigree, but nothing about Tangie connected with viewers. It's hard to believe she was only on the show a little over six months by then. I don't think viewers started to warm to Tangie until her last months in the role (if they did).

If Marcy had decided to stay there's definitely a big what if. I imagine she would have ended up into Roger's increasingly desperate schemes, or fought Reva for Alan, but continuing her relationship with Alan-Michael as Lucy/Alan-Michael builds could have been interesting. Maybe she could have been secretly pregnant and kept quiet because she didn't want him to feel obligated to her, only for Brent/Marian to "accidentally" reveal her secret at a party Alan-Michael throws for Lucy.

To be clear, I don't think they succeeded in highlighting AM/Rick well. Tangie couldn't have ended up pregnant because AM/Tangie never had sex-they were about to and realized they didn't have condoms and AM went out to buy some and while he was gone Alan showed up and AM caught them together. I was a bit amused watching the recent 1993 episode where AM blows off the model to help Gilly at the hotel because if I'm not mistaken he was in for a very long dry spell (at least onscreen). (I wouldn't normally keep track that closely but it was obviously a significant plot point for Lucy/AM.)

I wish they hadn't messed with any of the Tangie/AM/Alan stuff and toyed more with Nick/Tangie. It's funny but I found Nick the most tolerable with Tangie/Susan and thought he had decent chemistry with Tangie. Alan continuing to pursue Tangie while with Nick actually would have been a more interesting plot if Alan had tried to go scorched earth on Nick.

I've mentioned it before, but what I felt would've helped that plot was for Blake to discover AM and be part of hiding him. Not necessarily for anything romantic to happen, but to throw Blake into the AM/Alan story more and cause some tension with Ross. Blake/AM having some vulnerable moments about their respective fathers and bonding would have made that story a lot better, and Blake having flashes of jealousy to add non-Alan conflict to AM/Tangie would've helped.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by GL95