2 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

I love Rauch's quote when the writers wanted to address the ALS.."We all know what the outcome of that storyline is..." or something to that..as if we didn't know what the outcome of the "Clone" would be (well maybe the morons the show was pandering to didn't) or any of the Java storylines

In a way, I see Rauch's point.  For one thing, because ALS remains incurable, we do know the outcome, so the suspense is already gone.  (As Agnes Nixon reportedly told Michael Malone after OLTL's Megan died from complications of lupus: "And then what?"). For another, I think it's just depressing to watch even a fictional character go through the stages of a disease that we know is real and can result in only one outcome.  You want to entertain and even educate your audience, but you also want to give them some hope, which you can't do when the disease they're battling is an incurable one.

I'm new to this community and wanted to say hello :).

I started watching Guiding Light when I was 13 years old. Specifically, it was the 1989 Josh and Reva wedding at Cross Creek that got me hooked, but it was the love/hate relationship between Roger and Holly that kept me interested in Guiding Light over the years.

It's been wonderful seeing this show brought back to life thanks to some very committed fans who have posted full episodes of the show via YouTube. I'm having a blast rewatching the years that I originally watched, while also discovering new ones.

I was a big Michael Zaslow and Maureen Garrett fan in my teens, and now that I'm older and wiser, I can see all of the layers and nuances they brought to their work that I didn't appreciate as a teenager. Whether apart or together, they still light up the screen for me, and are simply magic together. It has been painful to watch some of the 1997 episodes when Michael Zaslow started exhibiting symptoms of ALS. I know at that time he wasn't yet diagnosed with ALS. I can't imagine what that time must have been like for him. My heart just breaks watching those episodes knowing now what happened to him. In regards to Maureen Garrett, I remember thinking her Holly was just the coolest character - the woman I wanted to be when I grew up. She was fascinating to watch all of those years ago and still is today.

I stopped watching the show in 1999. I had a tough time staying invested after Michael Zaslow was pushed out and the writers turned Holly into the nursery rhyme stalker. That was it for me.

Once I discovered this discussion thread, I went back to the beginning and read all of the posts. I sure wish this board was around when I was first watching the show. I've enjoyed reading all of your comments.

 

Welcome to the community, GL Oldtimer! I loved reading your post and look forward to your contributions.

2 hours ago, GL Oldtimer said:

sure wish this board was around when I was first watching the show. I've enjoyed reading all of your comm

There were probably some great places online where fans were discussing GL then.

CompuServe 1969/1979, Usenet 1980, Delphi 1981, Prodigy 1984, AOL 1985, Genie 1985

I was the Asst. Mgr. of the Delphi Soap Opera Board & we had just tons of AW/ATWT/GL fans. 

WOST, the SOAPnet boards, SoapCity boards, Media Domain, the notorious GL Buzz Board which I would have recommended you avoid, etc. 

But, whatever one finds when they go looking is just so special, when you first discover soap opera fandom online. 

I was a late bloomer to GL. My family was native NBC fans. But, GL just became as special to me as AW had been. I enjoyed reading your introductory post!! 

On 10/15/2023 at 4:31 PM, Khan said:

In a way, I see Rauch's point.  For one thing, because ALS remains incurable, we do know the outcome, so the suspense is already gone.  (As Agnes Nixon reportedly told Michael Malone after OLTL's Megan died from complications of lupus: "And then what?"). For another, I think it's just depressing to watch even a fictional character go through the stages of a disease that we know is real and can result in only one outcome.  You want to entertain and even educate your audience, but you also want to give them some hope, which you can't do when the disease they're battling is an incurable one.

I got that..I think more then the "suspense" factor..(who didn't know post 1997 what was going to happen on GL...) I think it's the fact that having a major storyline around an actor who may not be able to work on certain days, is more of a problem. They of course could have filmed his scenes ahead of time without certain actors but the immediacy of say, MG's Holly dealing with having to support Roger when he was "weak" would have been lost. On the other hand, seeing MG' Holly doing just that with MZ..given their history and their ties..would have blown away a Double KZ marathon we were treated to. If they cared and they were smart they could have done it..even for a six week storyline to wrap things up..I actually think the writers and Rauch had the talent to do it if they just would be allowed to be creative. 

But as usual, Rauch and the industry got it wrong..it wasn't the suspence.. there are no new stories in drama..it is the characters interactions that get you there and that is where MADD and Co always failed. Of course, the last time something happened on GL which you couldn't predict...blew up in their faces (Mo's death) so I can see where they were leary. 

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

I got that..I think more then the "suspense" factor..(who didn't know post 1997 what was going to happen on GL...) I think it's the fact that having a major storyline around an actor who may not be able to work on certain days, is more of a problem. They of course could have filmed his scenes ahead of time without certain actors but the immediacy of say, MG's Holly dealing with having to support Roger when he was "weak" would have been lost. On the other hand, seeing MG' Holly doing just that with MZ..given their history and their ties..would have blown away a Double KZ marathon we were treated to. If they cared and they were smart they could have done it..even for a six week storyline to wrap things up..I actually think the writers and Rauch had the talent to do it if they just would be allowed to be creative. 

But as usual, Rauch and the industry got it wrong..it wasn't the suspence.. there are no new stories in drama..it is the characters interactions that get you there and that is where MADD and Co always failed. Of course, the last time something happened on GL which you couldn't predict...blew up in their faces (Mo's death) so I can see where they were leary. 

Well, when Rauch stopped them (from brainstorming what they'd write), saying that it wasn't going to happen & everyone knew why. I thought, uh-oh, they don't realize that not everyone thinks like they do. Some people, like that writing team & like Maureen, see possibilities & you & MADD see only IMpossibility. I know they could have done it! But only if they believed that they could, which apparently was more than their leadership was prepared to take a chance on. I'm just glad that this became known. And if not for the writers in a Locher Room chat, I'd not sure it would have. 

Alan Locher had a birthday live chat today.

Tidbits:

Alan said everyone knew both GL and ATWT were going to be cancelled.

It just happened that ATWT lasted longer. They were sworn to secrecy and weren't suppose to let anyone know.

Kim Zimmer appeared and said Frank Grillo was difficult on the set. Would call the scripts garbage and AC, Kim husband, who was directing GL at the time told Frank, that he could just leave and do Shakespeare if he wanted to. He had no time for tantrums when the crew and actors had lots of dialogue to tape.

Alan said he was going to have AC on his show. Kim said that he had more tea to spill and they all started laughing.

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Soapsuds

On 10/18/2023 at 4:47 PM, Soapsuds said:

Alan Locher had a birthday live chat today.

Tidbits:

Alan said everyone knew both GL and ATWT were going to be cancelled.

It just happened that ATWT lasted longer. They were sworn to secrecy and weren't suppose to let anyone know.

Kim Zimmer appeared and said Frank Grillo was difficult on the set. Would call the scripts garbage and AC, Kim husband, who was directing GL at the time told Frank, that he could just leave and do Shakespeare if he wanted to. He had no time for tantrums when the crew and actors had lots of dialogue to tape.

Alan said he was going to have AC on his show. Kim said that he had more tea to spill and they all started laughing.

Grillo always sounded like an ass..I don't know why they didn't take that opportunity to recast Hart...(I love Weary's comment...) For being a mediocre talent and just another lug...he sure spun a career...he must have given great slobbers to someone, somewhere...)

 

Thank you for the warm welcome.

In response to the discussion about building a plotline around Michael Zaslow's ALS diagnosis, I think it would have been a groundbreaking opportunity to tell a multifaceted story.

Zaslow was a highly respected daytime actor dealing with a devastating disease. If he was willing to share his journey with the audience, I think a lot of his fans would have supported him sharing that journey through the lens of the camera. There's no doubt there would have been some difficult days as Mitch64 pointed out when Zaslow wouldn't be available to work. Overall though, I think the creative time could have figured out a way to make it work.

From what I've read, Zaslow and Maureen Garrett were close friends. I also remember reading that both of them loved acting together and the love/hate relationship of Roger and Holly. Combine all of that together and I imagine the scenes shared as Roger's ALS journey is told would have packed an emotional punch never seen before in daytime. I don't think there's enough adjectives that could describe just how heart-wrenching, beautiful, and loving this could have been.

And then there's the character of Roger. A flawed man who loved his family deeply, but also loved power and money. These desires were often at odds, and his quest for power and money oftentimes destroyed the relationships he held most dear. I could imagine him finally realizing as he faces his death that it's not the money and power giving him love and comfort, but those that he's always loved. There could have been some beautiful moments around that realization as Roger sought redemption.

Television just wasn't as brave then to share this sort of journey. I think there's a chance that it would be shared today though as I think television is more willing to take risks.

I will always think about what could have been.

Edited October 21, 20232 yr by GL Oldtimer

27 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Grillo always sounded like an ass..I don't know why they didn't take that opportunity to recast Hart...(I love Weary's comment...) For being a mediocre talent and just another lug...he sure spun a career...he must have given great slobbers to someone, somewhere...)

 

There’s been anecdotes of Grillo having bad on-set behavior over the years going back to his Prison Break days, including an altercation of sort between him and Ryan Reynolds a while back. Grillo in interviews tried to come off as some macho tough guy…I wonder if that’s why him and Moniz eventually divorced. Not to mention Grillo committed securities fraud before his acting career, yikes.
 

I don’t know why they didn’t recast Hart, but I suppose with Grillo being the 5th actor  to play Hart in such a short time period I guess the show was done with the character. Minus the never ending angel story, Hart’s murder was a chilling conclusion to the Dinah/Hart/Cassie triangle. I suppose at worst we would have seen Hart #6 rescue Cassie from San Cristobel over and over again. 

It was a bad decision given MZ’s passing and thus the loss of the Roger character, when the early 90’s team had deemed it necessary to bring on a second child for Roger, which was a good choice, so they should have thought of preserving the few of his relatives around. It was short-sighted IMO and then indirectly led to the weird Sebastian character, which could have just been Hart (with another actor) had they just written him out. And having Dinah kill someone was a mistake too. As for Grillo, he was easily replaceable and ultimately miscast. They should have just rested the character, go with the same exit but with no body found.

22 hours ago, GL Oldtimer said:

Television just wasn't as brave then to share this sort of journey. I think there's a chance that it would be shared today though as I think television is more willing to take risks

I think soaps were much braver in the 60s and 70s...in the 80s they all became generic copying Dynasty and Dallas and but the time the MADD one and Rauch got their hands on the show, no one wanted to take chances.   Add to that MADD/Rauch's "formula" story (bad girl, dumb guy, good girl traingle) and anything that did not fit that formula was out...(the Clone was just another triangle we all saw before..)  I always wish they had brought back a son of Roger's at that time to act as his mouthpiece and fill in if Zaz could not work (in my fanwank mind it would be the son of Rita's who Ron believes is Alan's so he adopts him off camera to hate the Spaulding's and the Bauers and be his ultimate revenge on both, but it ends up being Ed's son...) thus helping with production and creating a "what next" bad guy who has a sympathetic back story ( and I always wanted a bad Bauer..) 

 

21 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

There’s been anecdotes of Grillo having bad on-set behavior over the years going back to his Prison Break days, including an altercation of sort between him and Ryan Reynolds a while back. Grillo in interviews tried to come off as some macho tough guy

Grillo can thank his lucky stars on his own narcissistic personality and that he has a family member connection in the film industry (thus the Marvel casting) or he would just be another run of the mill ex soap star.  The relationship of he and Moniz were destined to break up given their beginnings.  She gave up her career to be a stay at home mom apparently....I think she did great on Yellowstone and hopefully she has more character work like that. Yea dumb move to have Dinah kill Hart (if Roger was alive would you believe he would let that go unpunished..) so when she came back it looked ridiculous she got off (and the only time I ever agreed with Cassie..) But Rauch wanted to burn their bridge and let Moniz and Grillo (neither one a cast favorite) know that they could not come back easily. 

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

I think soaps were much braver in the 60s and 70s...in the 80s they all became generic copying Dynasty and Dallas and but the time the MADD one and Rauch got their hands on the show, no one wanted to take chances.   Add to that MADD/Rauch's "formula" story (bad girl, dumb guy, good girl traingle) and anything that did not fit that formula was out...(the Clone was just another triangle we all saw before..) 

You include the clone & I don't understand that. We know that it was mandated by CBS. We know that Rauch fought against it. Do you include it because it's result fit the pattern, no matter its origin? Or, something else? 

6 hours ago, InLoveWithSoaps said:

It was a bad decision given MZ’s passing and thus the loss of the Roger character, when the early 90’s team had deemed it necessary to bring on a second child for Roger, which was a good choice, so they should have thought of preserving the few of his relatives around. It was short-sighted IMO and then indirectly led to the weird Sebastian character, which could have just been Hart (with another actor) had they just written him out. ...

I started out very interested in Sebastian. I wish I knew what they had planned that required Ed Bauer. They made a mistake waiting for Peter Simon. If the story needed an Ed Bauer, they should have cast someone & written whatever it was they wanted to happen, to happen. As it was Sebastian just ended up being one unholy mess. 

The Register Danville  Sunday Dec 3 1978

Soap-Opera Writing Big Crossword Puzzle MONTECITO Calif (AP) -

Forget the image of 'The Dick Van Dyke Show' where frantic writers run around the set and throw out pages” says Jerome Dobson sitting beside his swimming pool "We'll start plotting and say 'Pass the suntan lotion’" Jerome Dobson and his wife Bridget lead a quiet secluded life on a wooded estate between the mountains and the Pacific in this affluent community south of Santa Barbara. But they aren't cut off from the world of  Bertha Bauer. her sons Ed and Mike and everyone in Springfield USA. They don't make a move or utter a word that doesn't spring from the minds of the Dobsons.

Every day they turn out a 65page script for the CBS soap opera “The Guiding Light” longest running drama in broadcasting and are on the telephone constantly with the producers in New York. Since becoming head writers three and a half years ago they've given the soap opera which had been suffering from hardening of the arteries a decidedly contemporary look and a faster pace "The wonderful thing is that as writers we can live anywhere" says Dobson "We looked all over the country before deciding to move here” Bill and Joyce Corrington head writers for “Search or Tomorrow" live in New Orleans.

The Dobsons plot the series a year in advance dictate the day-by-day outlines to a battery of secretaries and send the outlines to four assistant writers to flesh out with dialogue.They use graphs and charts to keep track of all 30 characters and to be sure every actor works the number of days required by his contract. "It's a giant crossword puzzle” says Dobson "You have to keep story flowing and at the same time use your actors the proper amount of time. We can only use seven sets a day so that has to be coordinated too" Bridget says "We may work from sunup to moonup.It depends on the arguments. If Jerry’s being good we’ll get through it fast. “We’re working on so many different time levels If someone asks me what's happening on 'Guiding Light' I have to stop and think. We plot the stories up to a year in advance The scene breakdowns are seven weeks in advance of airin. The scripts are four weeks in advance. Then there's taping and finally the air date”

The Dobsons sit in the sun by their Olympic-size pool behind a huge house built in 1916 Nearby on the four-acre estate are a croquet court putting green and tennis court They moved in years ago with their children Mary 16 and Andy 13 and their two dogs Both are early risers and jog through the hills. Dobson runs until he spots 30 different species of birds “My record is 12 and a half miles” he says. They write wherever the mood strikes them — by the pool in the pergola or in their private offices.

Jerry and Bridget met at Stanford University. His family owned walnut ranches that he managed after graduation. He still oversees two ranches that raise walnuts and wine grapes. Bridget is the daughter of Frank and Doris Hursley who wrote for "Search or Tomorrow” and created “General Hospital” "When I was a child I used to pass hors d'oeuvres to the same people I now work with on ‘The Guiding Light ’ she says.“I had no faith in my writing ability and taught school for three years "she says. Then she spent seven years as an associate writer with her parents on "General Hospital” until she says "I felt had to sell my writing to someone else.My ego needed it. So I wrote the people I used to pass the hors d'oeuvres to and they gave me a trial writing scripts which I apparently passed.Jerry had been running the ranches and he joined me in the writing At one time they were head writers of "General Hospital" They were asked to take over that show when Bridget's mother became ill.

“The Guiding Light” was created in 1937 by Irna Phillips and ran on radio until 1952 The television version began then. It was originally centered on a minister named Dr Rutledge which accounts for the religious overtones of the title. He and his family lived in the city of Five Points and sometimes a daily episode consisted of his sermon. His traditional Good Friday message "Seven Last Words" was replayed year after year. But in the late 1940s the Rutledges were replaced by the Bauers ‘“ As head writers they turn out a page script every day plot the series a year in advance and try to see the actual broadcast of every episode.

Guiding Light’ is a vastly different show from what it was say five years ago” says Bridget "We were with the show a year and a half before I can really say we were proud of it. You can’t change it overnight. The pace is faster,  the characters are more contemporary, it's sexier, it has more humor. The characters are more multidimensional. "We push the limits on sex but it’s a matter of taste We like to use sub-rosa sex. Covert sex as opposed to overt sex. Delicious wholesome sex Every now and then the CBS censors will miss a line and we'll nudge each other”

The Dobsons record all the shows on their videotape cassette machine which they also use to view auditions of new actors. It allows them to vote on new performers without going to New York. They try to catch every show. At times they’ve rushed into bars and attempted to persuade the bartender to switch to the soap opera. Once they had to rent a motel room just to watch the one-hour show.

The Dobsons say there’s no formula for writing soap opera "You can't fill in the blanks” said Dobson “You can't just punch up the characters. You have to write from the gut. You have to be true to your characters at all times or the audience will jump on you” 

On 10/21/2023 at 9:55 AM, Donna L. Bridges said:

You include the clone & I don't understand that. We know that it was mandated by CBS. We know that Rauch fought against it. Do you include it because it's result fit the pattern, no matter its origin? Or, something else? 

It fits the pattern and I don't know that they fought it all that hard...MADD still felt that the Clone was their biggest success.  It also had to come from Rauch on a certain level..remember when they were face tapping KZ to play her younger sister..but there was no way that was going to happen?  So the old "Dual Role" thing was in play being bounced back and forth to give birth to the clone.