5 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

Early 70s GL or Pre-Dobson era GL is such a blank slate for me. This promo and the one clip of Papa Bauer's funeral I've found online, leaves me wanting to find out more about this era

 

I really just wish I could see the Kit and Charlotte story. I'm sure it may not have been as compelling onscreen as on paper, but I love watching Nancy Altman act, and it's the main story of those years that pops for me when I read about it. The others I imagine were better to watch than read summaries of. 

 

(seeing Roger and Peggy in those years would also be interesting)

 

Some stuff, like Leslie's mother coming back from the dead, feels a bit "eh."

8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks! Were Kit and Charlotte still on the show at this time? 

 

Do you remember this promo?

 

I don't know much about that Wilson Frost character.

 

I wonder who the woman in the hospital bed was. 

 

Charlotte was gone by then. Kit lasted until 1974, but I don't know if she was still there during the specific month this promo was assembled.

 

The video quality is too blurry, and I cannot make out the face of the woman in the hospital bed.

 

Wilson Frost was a minor character who only lasted about a year. He was romantically interested in Sarah, but left Springfield when things did not work out between them.

13 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

Forgive me for bringing up things that have surely been discussed multiple times at depth over the years, but man, how shocked were yall who were watching live when Maureen confronted Ed over his affair with Lillian and then drove off to her death? I watched the ep today and knew exactly where the story was headed and STILL found myself scrambling for the next one as the credits rolled. The thing that sticks out to me the most about their scenes throughout the episode was the lack of background music at a time when GL and ATWT were heavy on the electronic scores that made every scene sound like a Saturday afternoon B action movie. They very wisely cut that out for Maureen and Ed, and it became all about Maureen's hurt. Even Ed's lines were minimal, but Peter Simon delivered with facial expression alone. Amazing.

 

Those scenes were devastating in their power. I could sense where it was all heading, but as I was watching the story unfold, I kept thinking, "Surely TPTB would not be STOOPID enough to kill off the matriarch of the Bauer family; a character universally beloved by the audience and one of the few Bauers left on canvas!"

 

But of course, that's exactly what happened. We got some poignant, mesmerizing and epic moments that month, but the show was dealt a crippling blow, long-term.

On 6/9/2018 at 11:33 AM, vetsoapfan said:

Zanereed, the show was brilliant back in 1950, with very good, literate scripts which dealt with  adult themes. No wonder the audience was glued to the radio.

 

I'm sure that the audience in 1977 was peeved that Bill had allowed the Bauers to believe he had been dead for a decade, but psychologically, I could see Bill doing it. He saw himself as a failure and was wont to escape into alcohol and affairs when times got tough. This was just another, more extreme case of him running away from a family whom he could not live up to. There could have been YEARS of potential story there.

 

The fact that the careless Pamela K. Long and Gail Kobe killed off a legacy character, one who had originated on radio, was EGREGIOUS. I'm still mad about it.

 

Joan (or Jone?) Allison was fantastic as Meta Bauer White in 1950. Cool, confident, yet with plenty of vulnerability. The episode where she kills Ted White was actually quite chilling when I first heard it. For anyone wanting to hear this storyline, archive.org has it up here:

 

https://archive.org/details/otr_guidinglight

 

I think the audience in 1977 would have given Bill Bauer a pass had the Dobsons brought him back to Springfield as an amnesiac. But I have to agree with you - Bill hiding from his family was exactly in character for him. That was who Bill was. In my opinion, the Dobsons were writing Bill Bauer as he had been in the previous 2 decades. It wasn't the first time Bill had an affair on Bert (Gloria LaRue in the 1950's, and Maggie Scott in the 1960's), for example, and he had fled from his family before. The whole story could have been about Bill Bauer finally facing what he had done to himself and his family (both families) over the years and to finally try to make amends. As you said - that would have been years of storyline, especially if Simone had stayed in Springfield, as well.

 

On 6/10/2018 at 12:22 AM, Soaplovers said:

Even good writers like Pam Long and Douglas Marland make errors.... Marland didn't really write a lot of the Dobson characters well (Katie, Amanda, Rita, etc) and he killed off an effective villainess (Diane Ballard) for a murder mystery and some of the characters he created (Vanessa, Tony) really flourished once Pam Long took over. 

 

I had wished Pam Long had just decided to have Hillary leave town so that she could have been bought back later instead of killed off (to think of how wonderful the Roger/Holly/Ed/Maureen stuff in 1988/1989 would have been enriched more if Hillary had been around).  

 

I agree with you 100 percent. Hillary being a Bauer plus having had an affair with Roger would have made great points to flesh out after Roger returned from the dead.

On 6/8/2018 at 3:25 PM, All My Shadows said:

The background story for Bill's return was DUMB. AS. HELL. and I hated it when they told a similar story when Jesse came back from the dead on AMC. If a man willingly lets his family think he's dead so that he can live on some other woman and play house with her, then he ain't sh!t and he can stay dead.

This is me wishing soaps would stick with the families they already have, but did they ever try to introduce any other members of the Jackson family? It sucks that they had a good, unique vet like Stefan Schnabel around and they let the character just die off. Did they bring in anyone from Sara's family? I'm just annoyed with how it seems like at the beginning of each decade, the show scrapped a ton of characters and kept adding and adding and adding. Especially in the 80s. HERE COME THE REARDONS!!! HERE COMES THE LEWISES!!! HERE COME THE COOPERS!!! Why?

 

You bring up a great point about Stephen Jackson. I always thought that after they had that rather horrid storyline in the early to mid 1970's where Leslie's mother returned from the dead, plus revealed that Steve was *not* even Leslie's real father, that they should have followed up with a storyline where Steve has an illegitimate son who comes to Springfield... 

19 minutes ago, zanereed said:

 

Joan (or Jone?) Allison was fantastic as Meta Bauer White in 1950. Cool, confident, yet with plenty of vulnerability. The episode where she kills Ted White was actually quite chilling when I first heard it. For anyone wanting to hear this storyline, archive.org has it up here:

 

https://archive.org/details/otr_guidinglight

 

I think the audience in 1977 would have given Bill Bauer a pass had the Dobsons brought him back to Springfield as an amnesiac. But I have to agree with you - Bill hiding from his family was exactly in character for him. That was who Bill was. In my opinion, the Dobsons were writing Bill Bauer as he had been in the previous 2 decades. It wasn't the first time Bill had an affair on Bert (Gloria LaRue in the 1950's, and Maggie Scott in the 1960's), for example, and he had fled from his family before. The whole story could have been about Bill Bauer finally facing what he had done to himself and his family (both families) over the years and to finally try to make amends. As you said - that would have been years of storyline, especially if Simone had stayed in Springfield, as well.

 

Ultimately, Ellen Demming was my favorite Meta, probably because I "knew" her the longest, but Jone Allison was indeed very effective in the role. It's too bad that she did not have a longer career.

 

Paul Kinkaid's resentment alone, over Bill's abandoning his mom Simone and returning to the Bauers, could have provided the TGL with explosive, long-range drama. 

 

In any case, a show should never kill off a legacy character like Bill Bauer, one who had been there from the beginning (of the TV version anyway) unless THERE IS NO CHOICE. The way and the reason TGL killed Bill in 1983 was abhorrent.

On 6/10/2018 at 1:39 AM, j swift said:

I watched GL from the time of Roger's return with Alexandra Spaulding but, after reviewing the posts on this thread tonight, I went back and read about Rita Stapleton (Bauer). 

 

In re-reading the history I was struck by two issues: (1) It's interesting that the feud shifted from Roger/Ed to Roger/Alan; I know Roger and Alan had earlier issues but it seems to me that Ed was never driven by his hatred upon Roger's return; as much as he was in the 70's.  Ed lost a lot to Roger over the years but once Roger was nice to Maureen everything seems to have been forgotten between the two.

 

Part of that switch from Roger/Ed to Roger/Alan was probably due to - IMHO - Peter Simon's Ed versus Mart Hulswit's Ed. It was Hulswit's Ed that fueled much of the Roger/Ed feud during the 1970's. Hulswit was caring and compassionate, but also had a serious temper when pushed enough - and no one knew how to push Ed better than Roger, especially during the latter half of the 1970's. You can see a couple of their confrontations on YouTube (and I really wish the July 1979 episode when Ed confronts Roger about Roger raping Holly was available - it was one time I believed that Hulswit's Ed was angry enough to actually kill Roger). In a fight, Roger could have knocked Ed out, but Hulswit's Ed didn't care - he would dive in to the fight, regardless.

 

With Simon's version, Ed wasn't as..."combative". I guess that's as good a term, as any. For example, I could never see Simon's Ed getting into any sort of intense confrontation with Roger as Hulswit's version did. That was a shame, because even though Ed was older and wiser by 1989, it would have fun to see Roger "set off" Ed. I wonder if Simon could have pulled that off...?

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

In any case, a show should never kill off a legacy character like Bill Bauer, one who had been there from the beginning (of the TV version anyway) unless THERE IS NO CHOICE. The way and the reason TGL killed Bill in 1983 was abhorrent.

 

Absolutely. Bill's death just tried to prop up a storyline that wasn't really that good in the first place (even if Ed Bryce was fine being killed off).

8 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

You bring up a great point about Stephen Jackson. I always thought that after they had that rather horrid storyline in the early to mid 1970's where Leslie's mother returned from the dead, plus revealed that Steve was *not* even Leslie's real father, that they should have followed up with a storyline where Steve has an illegitimate son who comes to Springfield... 

 

Was that story around the time of the promo? (I wondered if that's what the hugging scenes with Steve and Leslie were about) I know she came back around the time of Leslie's wedding to Mike.

 

The whole story always sounds so pointless to me and out of step with most of GL up to that point. Maybe they were worried over ratings.

15 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

Was that story around the time of the promo? (I wondered if that's what the hugging scenes with Steve and Leslie were about) I know she came back around the time of Leslie's wedding to Mike.

 

The whole story always sounds so pointless to me and out of step with most of GL up to that point. Maybe they were worried over ratings.

 

You are correct, Leslie's mother first appeared in 1973, and the storyline continued into 1974. I'm not sure, but I think the storyline started with Rodell still playing Leslie at the time.

 

I also agree in that the storyline itself was pointless. There were zero lasting repercussions between Stephen and Leslie after the revelation. Once Victoria (her mother) and Roy Mills (her bio father) left town, I don't know if it was ever mentioned again?

Just watched some late 70s eps

Damn MZ and CB were FIONE!

OMG, Rita told Ed that don't bring her to orgasm

Alan had to check Mike as Mike wanted him to convince Philip to accept Mike as his DAD

On 6/11/2018 at 4:05 PM, zanereed said:

 

Part of that switch from Roger/Ed to Roger/Alan was probably due to - IMHO - Peter Simon's Ed versus Mart Hulswit's Ed. It was Hulswit's Ed that fueled much of the Roger/Ed feud during the 1970's. Hulswit was caring and compassionate, but also had a serious temper when pushed enough - and no one knew how to push Ed better than Roger, especially during the latter half of the 1970's. You can see a couple of their confrontations on YouTube (and I really wish the July 1979 episode when Ed confronts Roger about Roger raping Holly was available - it was one time I believed that Hulswit's Ed was angry enough to actually kill Roger). In a fight, Roger could have knocked Ed out, but Hulswit's Ed didn't care - he would dive in to the fight, regardless.

 

With Simon's version, Ed wasn't as..."combative". I guess that's as good a term, as any. For example, I could never see Simon's Ed getting into any sort of intense confrontation with Roger as Hulswit's version did. That was a shame, because even though Ed was older and wiser by 1989, it would have fun to see Roger "set off" Ed. I wonder if Simon could have pulled that off...?

 

Hulswit was great as Ed: warm, sweet and cuddly at times, but capable of deep fury at others. Peter Simon was a good actor, but his version of Ed was morose, internal and pallid. The actor was miscast from the get-go. Ed Bauer became far less interesting with the change in actors. He went from a viable romantic lead and patriarch figure to a nondescript supporting player. I think Ellen Parker's charming Maureen saved him to a degree, but then TIIC went and killed her off.  There was no chemistry between Simon and Maureen Garret as Holly.  I wanted Ed Bauer on canvas, just because he was...Ed Bauer, but after Hulswit left, the show never really used the character as well as the character deserved. What a waste!

4 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Hulswit was great as Ed: warm, sweet and cuddly at times, but capable of deep fury at others. Peter Simon was a good actor, but his version of Ed was morose, internal and pallid. The actor was miscast from the get-go. Ed Bauer became far less interesting with the change in actors. He went from a viable romantic lead and patriarch figure to a nondescript supporting player. I think Ellen Parker's charming Maureen saved him to a degree, but then TIIC went and killed her off.  There was no chemistry between Simon and Maureen Garret as Holly.  I wanted Ed Bauer on canvas, just because he was...Ed Bauer, but after Hulswit left, the show never really used the character as well as the character deserved. What a waste!

 

I think that is why the show's attempts in 1993 and 2003 to have Holly/Ed become a couple never worked because Simon/Garrett had friendship chemistry in spades.. but not romantic chemistry.

 

Since it's Pride Month... I can remember reading confirmation that Garrett was a lesbian and breaking it to my mom (who was a big Holly fan.. both actresses in the 70s and was excited when she returned in 1988).  My mom didn't believe me.. she kept saying 'but she has such great chemistry with men.' and I said 'that's why it's called acting'.   She said that she couldn't imagine having to hide who you are to have a career, and at the time, was glad actors/actresses weren't hiding in the closet anymore.

On 6/12/2018 at 10:21 AM, zanereed said:

 

You are correct, Leslie's mother first appeared in 1973, and the storyline continued into 1974. I'm not sure, but I think the storyline started with Rodell still playing Leslie at the time.

 

I also agree in that the storyline itself was pointless. There were zero lasting repercussions between Stephen and Leslie after the revelation. Once Victoria (her mother) and Roy Mills (her bio father) left town, I don't know if it was ever mentioned again?

 

TGL had been beautifully written for decades, but after Agnes Nixon left in 1966, we had a revolving door of scribes come aboard, some of whom were...not so good. We had the likes of James Lipton, Gabrielle Upton, and Robert Cenedella at the helm, whose work was significantly weaker than fans of the show were used to.

 

I think it was Cenedella and Lipton that gave us the dud Victoria Jackson story. While the show was never BAD in the 1970s (it only really fell apart in 1983-4), some storylines from that era are better left forgotten.

3 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

I think that is why the show's attempts in 1993 and 2003 to have Holly/Ed become a couple never worked because Simon/Garrett had friendship chemistry in spades.. but not romantic chemistry.

 

Since it's Pride Month... I can remember reading confirmation that Garrett was a lesbian and breaking it to my mom (who was a big Holly fan.. both actresses in the 70s and was excited when she returned in 1988).  My mom didn't believe me.. she kept saying 'but she has such great chemistry with men.' and I said 'that's why it's called acting'.   She said that she couldn't imagine having to hide who you are to have a career, and at the time, was glad actors/actresses weren't hiding in the closet anymore.

 

Many gay actors and actresses have had great on-screen chemistry with members of the opposite sex, just like many straight actors and actresses have had excellent chemistry with members of the same sex. George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney, Tony Geary and Genie Francis...heck, even Rock Hudson and Doris Day (LOL) show that gays and straights play well together. And heterosexuals Grant Aleksander and Michael O'Leary had better on-screen chemistry with each other than either actor ever had with any female co-stars.

 

@vetsoapfan Were you watching during the Ken shooting Ed era of the show?  Did it come out of left field, or was there a decent build up to that happening?  I know Cenedella was the one to write that story before his departure.

 

And I know Lynne Adams opted to quit in 1976.. but did the Dobson's do much with Leslie or was she in back burner land during their first months at the helm?  

On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 1:35 PM, vetsoapfan said:

Many gay actors and actresses have had great on-screen chemistry with members of the opposite sex, just like many straight actors and actresses have had excellent chemistry with members of the same sex. George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney, Tony Geary and Genie Francis...heck, even Rock Hudson and Doris Day (LOL) show that gays and straights play well together. 

 

David O'Brien and Carolee Campbell (The Doctors) would fit in this category. Actually, he had chemistry with just about all of his castmates, be it romantic, friendship, professional, fatherly or enemy.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

@vetsoapfan Were you watching during the Ken shooting Ed era of the show?  Did it come out of left field, or was there a decent build up to that happening?  I know Cenedella was the one to write that story before his departure.

 

And I know Lynne Adams opted to quit in 1976.. but did the Dobson's do much with Leslie or was she in back burner land during their first months at the helm?  

 

Yes, I was watching TGL at the time. We knew that Ken was deeply insecure about his marriage to Janet Mason. Holly had once told Ken that Janet might be having an affair with Roger Thorpe. Roger had had the hots for Janet but she firmly rebuffed his advances, although Ken remained insecure about Janet's potential interest in him. Ed and Janet also became quite close around this time, when he helped Janet deliver her baby Emily, and while she was recovering from back surgery, which ratcheted up Ken's jealousy another notch. He now saw Ed as a real rival for Janet's affection. Ken became so possessive and neurotic that Janet demanded he see a psychiatrist as a condition of them staying together. Ken agreed, but secretly stopping going to therapy. He was temporarily blinded in a car accident, and treated by Ed (!!!). After he regained his sight, Ken continued to feign blindness in hopes that Janet would at least stay with him out of pity. They continued to fight all the time, however, which distressed Janet to the point where she turned to Ed for consolation. Ken saw Ed and Janet in each other's arms while Dr. Bauer was comforting her, and this made Ken finally snap. He confronted Ed and Janet with a gun and shot Ed, which left him with a paralyzed hand.

 

I found this story to be rather melodramatic and sensationalistic. I was not a fan of Cenedella's writing on TGL or elsewhere. (I would take him over Ellen Weston and the other hacks who would later destroy the show, however.)

 

As for Leslie Bauer, a singer at the Metro nightclub, whose name was Chad Richards, became acquainted with her again through Hope, who had gotten a job at the club. Chad had a benign brain tumor at this point, which caused him to black out. He had once been in love with Leslie and was disoriented enough to believe they were still in a relationship. He attacked her but was stopped before any real harm was done. When his brain tumor was judged to be the cause of his bizarre behavior, Chad was forgiven and he left town, never to be mentioned again.

 

Not much else happened to Leslie in the year before she died. There was conflict between her and Mike when he took Freddie on a fishing trip and the boy was feared drowned, but of course Freddie survived, grew up to change his named to Rick, so all's well that ends well. Then Mike got involved with Ann and Spence Jeffers, and the story which led to Leslie's death played out.

 

I hope this helps!