And why isn't her skin burning?

MMMM HMMMMM. That sucks the big one too cuz I think most of us relish the gray characters. They're infinitely more interesting than the plain-jane vanilla "good girls" or "heroes", aren't they? I was hoping - HOPING - that Adam would turn out more like Alan-Michael (Curlee's RH version). His Bauer/Spaulding sides were always explored - the exact same thing could have been done with Adam as he's Victor's son, but has some of Hope's softer side.

Victoria should have ALOT more shades of gray. But we won't get into that.

One last thing - as much as I loathe Jill Lorie Hurst (GL), she did fairly well with one of that show's most notorious gray characters - Dinah Marler. JLH never tried to turn her into a goody-two shoes, and the character went out in typical "Dinah" fashion. I don't think MAB's writing regime could handle a character like Dinah.

I hear you on that one. Adam had the potential of being one Y&R's most complex characters, struggling between what Hope taught him and what his father has taught him, but no they've gone down this darkened route and it's sad.

Victoria had the potential to be a young Alexandra Spaulding (Curlee's Alex as well), fierce in the board room, a match up against her father, but always having a troubled personal life.

I think it's just as embarrassing is the squandered potential with Colleen and Abby. Colleen could have been driven by the death of her father to become a force to be reckoned with in the board room, butting heads with Victoria, and perhaps working her way up to proving to Victor that she had what it took. In addition she could have caused all kinds of conflicts with Abby's relationship with Victor. Looking at it in this context; you have Colleen who vehemently dislikes Victor, while her sister Abby remains torn between her love for both Brad and Victor. She wants to be loyal to Colleen, but feels a sense of loyalty to Victor as well.

I look at the morality issue as simply TPTB being so taken by the flawed characters they create (mainly according to the audience's reaction to them), they can't let them go. This causes the overarching plans for the s/ls to be ruined and we're all left scratching our heads asking why the hell is an online predator running a coffee shop.

I think positive audience reaction helped Kevin, along with the work from GR, but with those currently running Y&R, I think they just see these villains as plot devices, people who constantly keep the story going. Nothing else matters. They don't even try to explain motivations, much less make us feel sympathy.

Aside from this wretched Shick/Phick triangle, I have not seen any story told by Sheffer and MAB and the rest which seems to even take the audience into consideration. They don't just ignore fan bases, they ignore all fans. The crappy pacing, the horrible character development, the refusal to give the canvas any kind of depth or to treat women or minorities with a hint of respect.

If they do care about fan reaction, then I hope they will give JT more storylines, as I've heard a lot of positive comments about his work recently.

I hear you on that one. Adam had the potential of being one Y&R's most complex characters, struggling between what Hope taught him and what his father has taught him, but no they've gone down this darkened route and it's sad.

Victoria had the potential to be a young Alexandra Spaulding (Curlee's Alex as well), fierce in the board room, a match up against her father, but always having a troubled personal life.

I think it's just as embarrassing is the squandered potential with Colleen and Abby. Colleen could have been driven by the death of her father to become a force to be reckoned with in the board room, butting heads with Victoria, and perhaps working her way up to proving to Victor that she had what it took. In addition she could have caused all kinds of conflicts with Abby's relationship with Victor. Looking at it in this context; you have Colleen who vehemently dislikes Victor, while her sister Abby remains torn between her love for both Brad and Victor. She wants to be loyal to Colleen, but feels a sense of loyalty to Victor as well.

Great post, Michael! ICAM with everything you said.

I hear you on that one. Adam had the potential of being one Y&R's most complex characters, struggling between what Hope taught him and what his father has taught him, but no they've gone down this darkened route and it's sad.

Victoria had the potential to be a young Alexandra Spaulding (Curlee's Alex as well), fierce in the board room, a match up against her father, but always having a troubled personal life.

I think it's just as embarrassing is the squandered potential with Colleen and Abby. Colleen could have been driven by the death of her father to become a force to be reckoned with in the board room, butting heads with Victoria, and perhaps working her way up to proving to Victor that she had what it took. In addition she could have caused all kinds of conflicts with Abby's relationship with Victor. Looking at it in this context; you have Colleen who vehemently dislikes Victor, while her sister Abby remains torn between her love for both Brad and Victor. She wants to be loyal to Colleen, but feels a sense of loyalty to Victor as well.

I notice most of the ruined characters, besides Adam (who can never be anything more than a crazy loser because Nick and Victor are the real men of the family) are women. Not just ruined, but neglected. Y&R probably knows that most of the lack of development for these characters will be put on the actresses, so they don't need to bother to develop them.

The lack of interest in, or outright contempt towards the canvas that made Y&R the #1 soap for decades is incredible. And these are the people who were supposed to be bringing classic Y&R back.

I think it's just as embarrassing is the squandered potential with Colleen and Abby. Colleen could have been driven by the death of her father to become a force to be reckoned with in the board room, butting heads with Victoria, and perhaps working her way up to proving to Victor that she had what it took. In addition she could have caused all kinds of conflicts with Abby's relationship with Victor. Looking at it in this context; you have Colleen who vehemently dislikes Victor, while her sister Abby remains torn between her love for both Brad and Victor. She wants to be loyal to Colleen, but feels a sense of loyalty to Victor as well.

There may still be hope apparently. I don't know how reliable this is there is something on soaptown usa's loose lips section about the Colleen rumors, it says the same thing moila posted a days back.

I think positive audience reaction helped Kevin, along with the work from GR, but with those currently running Y&R, I think they just see these villains as plot devices, people who constantly keep the story going. Nothing else matters. They don't even try to explain motivations, much less make us feel sympathy.

I wouldn't be suprised if MJ get redeemed because of the love SH is getting.

Aside from this wretched Shick/Phick triangle, I have not seen any story told by Sheffer and MAB and the rest which seems to even take the audience into consideration. They don't just ignore fan bases, they ignore all fans. The crappy pacing, the horrible character development, the refusal to give the canvas any kind of depth or to treat women or minorities with a hint of respect.

Even if they don't do the stories justice I think they are giving into fans. They undid Jill and Kay being mother and daughter, brought Ashley back, and are reuniting couples that were popular back in '02.

If they do care about fan reaction, then I hope they will give JT more storylines, as I've heard a lot of positive comments about his work recently.

Me too Carl and I like what they are doing to him now, but I'm afraid of what they would do if they gave him more airtime especially if he were to compete against Billy. Thad really doesn't have the same buzz that Miller, Grazidei, or Rickkart have, so he might not get as much story.

Edited August 28, 200916 yr by lovely_m

I don't know if bringing Ashley back or undoing Katherine/Jill as mother and daughter were about fan wishes. I think they wanted Billy and Mac to be together again. I think they also did this to phase Jill out of any important role on the show. They didn't bother to ever follow up on unrelating them or explore anything in their lives, aside from Katherine being a saint and Jill being a loser. I think bringing Ashley back was so they could diminish Nikki's role and because they needed a woman with a history of craziness and problematic pregnancies. I really think they just brought her back because the story they probably had planned for Sabrina and Victor fell through. That's the one time I do think they listened to fans, because they used Sabrina's unpopularity to scapegoat her into being seen as some horrible burden to the show and her death was supposed to be a great creative revival.

I don't think they will ever seriously redeem MJ. I think they will just say "Poor Patty Jane, she's crazy," and use this as an excuse when she does the latest insane thing to push the plot forward.

I don't think they will ever seriously redeem MJ. I think they will just say "Poor Patty Jane, she's crazy," and use this as an excuse when she does the latest insane thing to push the plot forward.

How is that any different than Kevin? Anytime he gets into trouble it's always because of Tom and his crappy childhood.

Edited August 28, 200916 yr by lovely_m

How is that any different than Kevin? Anytime he gets into trouble it's always because of Tom and his crappy childhood.

Most of the time he's not in trouble or doing bad things, at least not anything serious. Even armed robbery was not a big deal with these writers. They turned it into a way to make him look cool. Patty Jane has done much more serious things, written as being very serious, they just pull the poor Patty Jane card.

Whoa!! Michelle and Tracy sharing a scene together?

Have the clouds parted and God shed is light and mercy on us?

They were probably throwing the audience a bone because of the complaints that Lauren never once was shown visiting Summer or Phyllis when Summer was in a coma, so with that very short scene they let us know Phyllis has been talking to Lauren about Summer's therapy (off screen of course).

I think this issue with Lauren and Michael suddenly being concerned about Eden spending too much time with Noah is to allow for another girl to be paired up with Noah. Lauren and Michael will probably decide Eden should stay at the same high school and Noah will go to Walnut Grove. I can see Eden eventually getting a scholarship to a private school and leaving the canvas.

I also get the feeling the writers put Gloria and Jeffrey in the MJ story so that they will take the fall when things go very wrong. MJ is nuts so no matter what happens she will be found non guilty due to insanity, but Gloria and Jeffrey just aided and abetted her escape. Even Gloria and Jeffrey are not this stupid (Victor never pays them and so why take such a big risk). I think MAB is throwing them to the wolves and she thinks that the audience will be happy that they finally are paying for their crimes. It is about as subtle as a sledge hammer.

So if I am right, the Baldwin-Fisher family will consist of Jana, Kevin, Michael and Lauren. CLB's contract is coming up and he will be backburned with Lauren once again after today's show. If they don't re-sign him, then they will just write Michael, Lauren and Fen off the show since they have no story. If they do re-sign them, I still wonder about Lauren.

I haven't figured out if the lack of Lauren is because they are minimizing CLB like they did with MTS before her contract came up and since her story is mostly linked to his she is not on much or does MAB really not want her on the show and so is just having her and Michael tread water (with a few episodes a month) until she can find a way to write her off? She has not even tried to write for her.

I think this will all happen in the fall.

Hmmmm. I know the Phyllis-and-Summer trip to Switzerland is to facilitate Stafford's between-contracts vacation, but...

1. B&B introduced a magical swiss neurology facility that was supposed to rescue Eric Forrester from his heart-attack-induced brain death. Same place?

2. I'm guessing Phyllis comes back alone, saying "Summer was making excellent progress, but she needs more. She loves it there, in the mountains and streams and fields, and she asked to stay on."

3. Then, like all the children who go to Switzerland, she'll return next year as Abby and Noah's compatriate. Does that sound right?

On the topic of brain injury, I thought they were alluding to it as an explanation for Victoria's lack of energy. JT said something to the effect of "you haven't been the same since the accident". This would be a plausible account for personality change. I'd love to see this addressed and followed up on.

Let me also say that the writing team and Haiduk are effectively making me feel for pathetic Patty. And...contrived as it is (How did Gloria get in the church?)...I loved Glo in her nun's habit "saving the day".

I also very much liked the Friday cliffhanger of the Nick-paternity reveal. I think that now that Nick is "firm" in his commitment to Phyllis and Summer, living with this knowledge will be a remarkable character test.

ETA: I loved when Gloria ran to Haiduk and said, "Mary Jane..." And Haiduk replied, "Mary Jane's not here anymore". To which Gloria--without missing a beat--so smoothly said "Oh, then to whom am I speaking?"

LOVED IT! HILARIOUS beat! She's a good one, that Mrs. Bardwell!

It almost seemed as though the stage were being set for DID...but this is NOT DID in any real sense.

Edited August 29, 200916 yr by MarkH

On the topic of brain injury, I thought they were alluding to it as an explanation for Victoria's lack of energy. JT said something to the effect of "you haven't been the same since the accident". This would be a plausible account for personality change. I'd love to see this addressed and followed up on.

I never thought of this one good point they can use something don't know what it is angst or what but they just became extremely dull to me....not only as a couple but individually as well...I like JT's storyline now.

Let me also say that the writing team and Haiduk are effectively making me feel for pathetic Patty. And...contrived as it is (How did Gloria get in the church?)...I loved Glo in her nun's habit "saving the day".

I'm getting there; Paul is selling it for me I haven't felt any sympathy for her until Paul and his brother (the priest) got in on it...

I also very much liked the Friday cliffhanger of the Nick-paternity reveal. I think that now that Nick is "firm" in his commitment to Phyllis and Summer, living with this knowledge will be a remarkable character test.

Yep I liked this too it makes me wonder if he's going to Switzerland now

what is he going to do it was a good cliffhanger with them about to leave and all that.

He's been bouncing back and forth so I'm interested to see where he lands and if he's going

to stick and stay.

ETA: I loved when Gloria ran to Haiduk and said, "Mary Jane..." And Haiduk replied, "Mary Jane's not here anymore". To which Gloria--without missing a beat--so smoothly said "Oh, then to whom am I speaking?"

MichaelGL, on 28 August 2009 - 01:41 PM, said:

I think it's just as embarrassing is the squandered potential with Colleen and Abby. Colleen could have been driven by the death of her father, butting heads with Victoria, and perhaps working her way up to proving to Victor that she had what it took. She could have caused all kinds of conflicts with Abby's relationship with Victor. While her Abby remains torn between her love for both Brad/Victor. She wants to be loyal to Colleen, but feels a sense of loyalty to Victor as well.

never thought about this one either but now that you've put it out here I totally agree

Edited August 29, 200916 yr by Cyberologist

Nick isn't firm in any commitment, according to SOD's fall preview, Nick will be torn between the two women again and he and Sharon will reunite to break up again. Yeah, because we didn't get enough of that this year.

Nick isn't firm in any commitment, according to SOD's fall preview, Nick will be torn between the two women again and he and Sharon will reunite to break up again. Yeah, because we didn't get enough of that this year.

REUNITE to break up AGAIN? This show will even manage to alienate the biggest Shick and Phick fans. Who will be left then? Nobody.

Yeah, Morrow gave an interview where he talked about poor Nick and how torn he'll be and the fall previews gave more away.

This going around in circles writing from this incompetent writing regime isn't helping this show any.

Remember when we were told that we should expect some changes in the fall? Yeah right, looks like things are staying the same.