So did MAB straight out lie, or did something change? Call me naive, but I think something changed, which doesn't absolve her, but I do think she planned on doing Philip 3/Rafe at one time.

I do not believe anything changed, especially on the CBS side.

Maria clearly lied to us, IMO.

CBS daytime already had gay related storylines on both ATWT and GL. So I very much doubt any interference came from them as to why a gay storyline couldn't be done on Y&R.

Like everything else on Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, and Scott Hamner's Y&R, they only made Rafe and Phillip III gay to create some "shock" and "awe" and to obviously get some press attention. And we were always told by people like brimike that Y&R's breakdowns and episodes were written like three or four months in advance, so I doubt anything substantial changed. Hamner also claimed that they were never going to do one anyway.

Edited August 19, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

It's called backlash. They're "walking it back" like in politics. I don't know if it's CBS or the Bells who are very gunshy about this.

I can easily believe they got a lot of people calling/writing in protest and that scared them off, but to think they were never going there is just incomprehensible to me. I just don't agree with the people that say Y&R isn't set up to do a gay story. It certainly could be. But I think soaps still have a very conservative audience, which is why the current crop seems destined to die out. The core audience can't accept change and they aren't going to pull in many new people when the writing is like something out of the 50's in the way women and minorities are portrayed.

Edited August 19, 200916 yr by Juliajms

Remember, Thom Bierdz only signed a 6 month contract, and Rafe is played by a recurring actor that isn't under contract.

So, I think they never had substantial plans for either character, regardless.

How can a gay storyline and romance or whatever be told in 6 months? How can one be done with an actor that isn't under contract and that the show has no interest in developing?

Edited August 19, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I may be wrong but wasn't there something out there that TIIC defended not showing the Rafe/Adam kiss in that this was not the true love story or something to that effect that they intended to portray? I still say Engen's reasons for leaving had less to do with the gay kiss (which was never even shown) but more to Adam's motivations for the "relationship" and just Adam's sick and twisted actions in general.

Remember, Thom Bierdz only signed a 6 month contract, and Rafe is a recurring actor that isn't under contract.

So, I think they never had substantial plans for either character, regardless.

How can a gay storyline and romance or whatever be told in 6 months? How can one be done with an actor that isn't under contract and that the show has no interest in developing?

Honestly, after seeing TB's acting, I'm not sorry we aren't seeing a gay story with him. I find the actor who plays Rafe really appealing though, so I'm sorry he won't be getting a BF. I feel cheated even though he isn't a main character. It seems like MAB lied to TB's as well though. I got the impression from reading his interviews that he thought he was getting a romance. Maybe I misunderstood though.

When it comes to gay kissing on the CBS soaps, the problem has never been with CBS, it has always been with the producers of the shows, P&G and now the Bells at Y&R. Branco, himself, said that CBS had no problem with showing the Rafe/Adam kiss, it was Y&R that made the decision to cut away which elicited no outrage from Branco or anyone else about homophobia.

Since Hamner said that Y&R was never planning a gay story, Maria was probably telling Branco what she knew that he wanted to hear, especially after the big stink over Engen. She is the headwriter and a Bell, she has the power so if she was interested in doing a gay story, one would have been done.

Another possibility is that MAB considers the Rafe/Adam story a gay story as well as the re-introduction of Phillip as a gay character. I can see this.

Edited August 19, 200916 yr by Ann_SS

"At this point, we are not doing a gay story, and we never actually were doing a gay story," says co-head writer Scott Hamner.

That's the exact quote in the article...

This is the new "She's not considering it. It's just the audience rewriting what is there."

This is the new "She's not considering it. It's just the audience rewriting what is there."

Yeah, I bet Maria and her henchmen are intent on blaming the fans who thought they would do some type of gay storyline. I mean, they only brought on TWO gay characters, one being a core character that came back from the dead, right?

So this is the story Thom B came back for?? This is the BIG different kind of gay story Maria Lie out your Ass Bell was talking about?? Did I blink and miss it?? Maria is a LIAR....LIAR....LIAR.....This Beyotch is worse than Jean Pissy.....LOL

So did MAB straight out lie, or did something change? Call me naive, but I think something changed, which doesn't absolve her, but I do think she planned on doing Philip 3/Rafe at one time.

I don't think she ever had any serious plans for Phillip and Rafe. They have never even been hinted at sharing a story together. I think this is one of those things like Chance being gay that so many fans assumed would happen, it became some sort of a reality. I think their bragging about how this wasn't going to be a typical coming out story meant they had no real plans for anything, because she was basically telling people there was no reason to care. She was saying that homosexuality would be shock value, plot device, nothing else, and this was somehow worthy of being lauded, because that meant she was going to treat them in the same hamhanded, cowardly way most other issues are now treated on this show.

Hate to say it, but "I told you so."

Yep. How's that McDouble everyone?

So, MarkH, what about that redemption arc? Alphanguy, what about that comeuppance in the form of a kiss?

C'mon, come out of hiding. I wanna hear your thoughts on this!

I guess "The Rafe Torres Story" will be put on hold indefinitely.

LOL. In my defense, you haven't heard me effuse since the Chipmunk story. But I don't think it was an outright lie (in the sense that they never intended to do the story). I think instead it is a sign of the chaotic, miasmic creative mess that is going on behind the scenes. To wit:

Word, more and more I think Engen did nothing wrong, because WE NEVER ACTUALLY SAW A GAY KISS ON THE SHOW!

And now, knowing that Y&R has no intention of telling a gay story, it all doesn't add up.

Pretty much.

I have to believe that the gay thing (even if it was just not liking Adam exploiting a gay boy like that) was part of Engen's motivation. Don't you think, if they now back-slide from this gay thing, that even Engen is gonna feel cheated? "I didn't want to play an opportunistic homo...and now they yanked that story???"

F@CK THEM!!!!! how many years have I waited for this, and they pull this crap!!! ???? I've got petience, but honey, after that... the fuse has officially BURNT DOWN!!! The male Mary Richards is ready to make a SCENE!!! There ain't nothin worse than promising something, and then snatching it away!!! And he doesn't give an explanation as to why, I WANT TO KNOW... AND NOW!!!!!! They can do it on Brothers and Sisters, OLTL, FREAKING DEGRASSI!!! a show for TWEENS!!! I want to know what Nelson intends to do about this, and it BETTER BE GOOD.

I don't feel outrage. I just feel a dull kind of sense of the creative bankruptcy. If there was a long-term plan, it has been jettisoned. And that very fact shows that the idea of a long-term story with clear beats has been abandoned by this show. That is the worst thing of all.

Oh, please. What a bunch of bullsh!t in this thread.

Even though Maria said they were doing it, how on Earth could anyone believe that? A straight guy seducing a gay guy for his own sinister ends is NOT a gay story. And that same straight guy CANNOT turn gay. Not in a well-crafted storyline, anyway. Nor was he ever intended to do that in the end, escape with Rafe or whatever. So I don't know what's this fuss about? The whole story was absolute bullsh!t from the very start.

And those Phillips and their orientation... Who cares? How did anyone expect them to write such a story? Absolutely INSANE. This is a classic case of Y&R people hyping something and that same thing coming to bite them in the as$. Big time. You gotta love it when Bell soaps people get the Bell soaps payoff in the end: the Bells got you! Buahaha!

Well, I think you are right. But that establishes how anti-Bell this show has become. 'Cause old Y&R would NEVER have hyped something they decided to abandon.

So did MAB straight out lie, or did something change? Call me naive, but I think something changed, which doesn't absolve her, but I do think she planned on doing Philip 3/Rafe at one time.

Bingo. This is totally what I believe. A huge "oops" has happened! They changed their plans...which would be okay if they hadn't hyped the heck out of those plans.

It's called backlash. They're "walking it back" like in politics. I don't know if it's CBS or the Bells who are very gunshy about this.

Yes, I totally agree with you on this. I do not believe it is CBS that is gunshy. Otherwise, there wouldn't be gay stories on three (all four, if you count B&B's Sergei reappearance) CBS soaps. Y&R's gay stories have been more tepid and asexual than all the other CBS soaps. Thus, I suspect the problem lies with Y&R, not CBS.

On the topic of Chris Engen, my complaint was never that people were upset about his not wanting to do a gay storyline, but that Branco framed this as being all about him being some huge diva who refused to go anywhere near this groundbreaking same-sex plotline. There have been SO MANY OTHER elements in Adam's story over the past year which have been disgusting, one-dimensional, poorly written, and have completely destroyed the character. Even Branco's gossip said that he had been unhappy for a long time. And all the trash that made up this story was swept under the carpet because the focus shifted to Engen not being a team player and walking away from a gay plotline.

I don't feel outrage. I just feel a dull kind of sense of the creative bankruptcy. If there was a long-term plan, it has been jettisoned. And that very fact shows that the idea of a long-term story with clear beats has been abandoned by this show. That is the worst thing of all.

That is very true and very worrisome about this particular writing regime. So much of the show seems like they make it up as they go along. As if they throw anything onto the canvas to see if it sticks. The planning and execution seems horrifically flawed. I think this is a Y&R issue, and not an overall issue at CBS. The other CBS soaps are a bit all over the place too yes, but their long-term planning isn't as awful as Y&R's has become.

I know you think this will be Y&R's last writing regime, but keep the faith that we will get a better Head Writer soon!

Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, and Scott Hamner need to be fired for the havoc they're reeking on this show.

Edited August 20, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Since when does Hamner speak to the press anyway?

Since when does Hamner speak to the press anyway?

He's been giving previews and interviews to the magazines for a while now. Even more-so than Maria and Hogan.

Edited August 20, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner