OLTL: Actress FIRED!

[marceline]

Really?! That's news to me. I hope somebody was nice enough to tell Nathan Purdee, Timothy D. Stickney and Victoria Rowell.

But I guess when you consider the fact that minority characters on soaps are little more than second string interchangeable dispensible tokens most of whom have no stories of their own then I guess you're right. After all how can the invisible be an issue?

[Vee]

It seems like people here expect Patricia Mauceri to release a statement saying "Yes, I am a brazen homophobe and proud of it," and only then will they believe the now-numerous reports saying the same thing (yes, even crazy Nelson backed it up with more details): She has personal issues with homosexuality, and refused to play Carlotta becoming supportive of a gay (or suspected gay) character because of that. She apparently let her personal beliefs interfere with her work. How many people have to report this before we start accepting it? Is this a twelve step program? And do you really think the kids at Daytime Confidential would open themselves up to a lawsuit if they got it wrong?

I am sick and tired of reading a bunch of mealymouthed posts which claim to not want to play judge and jury, but have already done so against ABC as opposed to the actor. Just like they did with Chris Engen's lame rebuttal, people here automatically assume Mauceri is being set up - which ABC would never do, since it would land them in major hot water legally - and that it's all about Carlotta's motivations, even though you've been told that no, it is not. But you seem to have made up your minds, Mauceri is not anti-gay, ABC just "pushed her too hard." Just like Chris Engen when they wanted him to kiss a guy, right? It's not homophobia, it's "oppressive behavior." It's "giving the actor their say." I noticed this with Engen, but now I sense an extremely disturbing trend to kill any discussion of homophobia by degrees, trying to transmogrify the discussion into something else about how we need to respect other people's intolerance. Any actor with a whiff of homophobia to them is immediately martyr-ized by some fans, facts or no facts, even before I could possibly begin to break out the tar and feathers.

Let's be clear, none of you are "speaking out against oppression" or "giving the actor a voice." You're defending an alleged homophobe with no indication that she is anything but, assuming that she is not and attacking the network for firing her based on her unwillingness to play a positive role in a gay-themed storyline. Don't pretend you're doing anything else.

[quartermainefan]

I meant in the larger culture and what is being talked about these days in the news. An article on the lack of diversity on TV and focusing on African American actors would sort of lose its punch as soon as they got to the paragraph where they discuss all the shows where African Americans are prominent. That they are not prominent in daytime just isn't enough of a hook because they would then have to discuss Angie and Jesse, Generations and all those actors you just mentioned who have worked or work in daytime. 'Gay' is timely, it is the stuff Miss California pageants are made of, it pesters Obama, it gets propositions on state ballots and people rallying for and against. An actor quitting because they refuse to play gay is a more timely and better headline than black roles on soaps are few and far between. Race is not the issue it was in our society that it was when All In The Family was on, or Julia.

[quartermainefan]

I think that is pretty obvious. There is no oppression against this woman, no one has denied her her voice.

[marceline]

I suspect that the fact she raised her voice is the problem. I don't believe this had as much to do with the Kyle/Fish storyline as it's about the realities of the Fronseverse. This older, Latina actress had the unfathomable temerity to suggest to Valentini (a man known for being controlling and childish, just ask Forbes March) that she knew the ins and outs of the character she's been breathing life into for almost 20 years so he fired her. I knew this would happen when Obama picked Sotomayor. I guess this "wise Latina" thought she knew better than a white man. Well as Blair might say, guess again Chiquita.

I know that for some its easier to accept that this woman who has spent her life living and working in the New York television and theatre scene and appeared in a gay themed film has suddenly become so insanely homophobic that she had to be cast out like so much vermin before her - heretofore dormant - hatred infected the rest of the set but history doesn't back that up nor does simple reason. But who needs to look at reason or facts or PM's own history of behavior when we have DC's poor writing, Nelson's agenda and Perez's complete and utter lack of humanity.

By all means, let's string the bitch up and get it over with.

[Jess]

I so agree. I mean, let's see here, PM has been on the show 20 years, has appeared in a gay movie and has never before shown signs of homophobic behavior. In fact, she has demonstrated quite the opposite. Now she did have the gall to be upset about The Diner being re-created as The Bonjour Cafe and to challenge that. Oh shame on her. Then we have dear ol Frankie who has a well-established reputation of firing people who disagree with him: Forbes March and Dan G., for example -- and who also has a well-earned reputation of trashing people anonymously in the media -- say Trevor St. John during his contract negotiations, REG during her negotiations, the rumors that ME's demands led to Dan G's dismissal. Yeah, I think we have a lot of reason to call PM names and think Frankie is the innocent savior. What bullshit.

[Vee]

You're being completely ridiculous, and I think you know it. According to reports, Mauceri's beliefs have grown more conservative, and that was why she objected to the scene. That is the only real indication we have of Patricia Mauceri's beliefs, period - you can't draw on anything else except one gay-themed film in her resume from twelve years ago. She hasn't been attending Pride rallies or speaking out on behalf of gay and lesbian performers.

And what in the bleeding Christ does this have to do with Sonia Sotomayor? Are you completely cracked? Do you really think ABC Daytime was seething about Obama nominating a Hispanic Supreme Court Justice, and decided to take it out on Patricia Mauceri? What? Seriously, are you ill? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend there is some logic to a theory about how Brian Frons supposedly found the time in his busy schedule to persecute and slander a recurring middle-aged Latina actress, as if they did this in the way you are postulating, he would leave ABC Daytime vulnerable to major litigation from the wronged performer, which is the first rule of what not to do as a exec. Look, Brian Frons is an ass, but the scheme you guys are dreaming up is not that of a creatively bankrupt network executive, it's like something out of Kimberly Shaw's medical bag on Melrose Place or Cobra Commander's playbook on G.I. Joe. It's something Stacy would do!

Now we can squeal about the evils of Perez Hilton and Nelson Branco all we like, and yes, they're both crazy and obnoxious, but this story (and the Engen one) didn't come from nowhere and wasn't made up out of whole cloth to persecute a couple poor soap actors. The Velvet Mafia is not meeting in the sauna at Equinox scheming to fire more handsome young leads or long-running minority actors, cackling mincingly. It doesn't work like that. And frankly I am sick and tired of those two queens and their behavior being brought up to change the subject. I don't care for either of them, but just bringing them up is not a counter-argument to homophobia on the part of a performer. It's like "well, look who accused them of being bigoted - these two obnoxious homosexuals!" What's your point? Who should bring it up? And if Mauceri or Engen did allow their beliefs to influence their professional choices and refused to play material, why shouldn't they have been fired like any other actor in a similar position? What would you do if it turned out the story is exactly the way it's been described, marceline? Would you admit that the actor was foolish for allowing her personal prejudices to interfere with her work? Or would you find another couple obnoxious gay celebrities to throw in my face while claiming this is all a high-falutin revenge scheme against Erik Estrada?

[Vee]

Actually, she hasn't demonstrated anything before personally.

You can back all that up, of course. It's all Frank's evil scheme.

[brimike]

And to think, this whole thread started over a character who's done nothing but serve flan for fifteen years...

[Vee]

Her flan is just another thing the gays have taken from the heartland, brimike. Our lust for power knows no bounds!

[miajere]

IA. There's no denying the Vegas are not really a strong portion of what keeps OLTL ticking and that is largely due to the lack of writing for this family. And in society's move towards the "color blind" agenda we neglect to see the circumstances that have brought her to this place. Which are, if she weren't specifically on the show to maintain the front of being a diverse show, she would've most likely been written off. She's just as expendable as this future gay couple.

LIke I said before, no one's in the position to talk to her personal beliefs. There's far too much information to suggest this has nothing to do with PM's personal beliefs. But I ask once again, when have tptb been "gay friendly"? But people swear up and down that PM's a homophobe in the same breath they praise the validity and security of this industry. Get angry with PM, but feed advertisers and praise and support the soaps? This has got to be a joke.

[Vee]

Sorry, miajere, I didn't realize this was a loyalty test. I didn't know that if I disapproved of Patricia Mauceri's behavior, that meant I automatically approved of ABC Daytime and the way they've been running their soaps. I happen to think I can disapprove of both parties, thanks.

Mauceri's behavior, as outlined thus far, comes off as bigoted and unprofessional to me. If it's true, I believe she deserved to be fired for it. I also believe ABC Daytime is a mess and is running its soaps into the ground with mismanagement. But what I feel for ABCD most of the time has nothing to do with this particular incident. I don't think these two beliefs contradict each other, and I think it's completely within your capacity to understand that even if ABCD is wrong much of the time, Mauceri's objections and choices that led to her dismissal are not actually their fault. According to reports, she is the one who chose not to play the scene, and she is the one that forced their hand. It's not all about "The Evil Empire" - we can't trace every actor's foible and fault back to the scheming network, and we can't expect to always side with the actor when one of them does something stupid because to do otherwise would somehow, in your mind, indicate approval of the network. It doesn't. This is not the same thing, at all.

[marceline]

No. I'm sarcastic but the fact that you thought I meant it makes me laugh. Hard. Perhaps you should take a nice trip to Argentina until you calm down. (Just so you know that's more sarcasm. I'm referring to the Mark Sanford incident.) Or would that be too many women who remind you of Patricia Mauceri for you to deal with.

No. The Engen story was made up by a hatemongering, bipolar narcissist who admitted to twisting the facts to suit his own purposes. And this one was created by a desperate gossip site "reporting" on a dying genre trying to make a name for itself. There's nothing, NOTHING to back up this story about PM. But there is something to back up the fact that she has no problem dealing with homosexual themes in her work as an actress or dealing with gay actors and that she's been unhappy with Carlotta's place on the canvas. There is also plenty of evidence that ABC punishes actors who don't "know their place" and holds minority actors and women over 40 in low regard. There's plenty more pointing to Frons as an ageist racist, Valentini as a vengeful control freak and Carlivati as a poor writer than there is to Patricia Mauceri as a homophobe.

But I understand where you're coming from. We can't take the chance. Exterminate her now before she does more damage! (More sarcasm.) Maybe PM can get a job on a telanovela. They'll be here LONG after OLTL is gone.

ETA: And how do we know that PM wasn't inspired by Sotomayor to speak her mind after all these years of disrespect? Lord knows, after Obama was elected I became uppity as hell. After all haven't you been trying to keep me in my place?

[Vee]

So now you're calling me a racist. Okay. Thanks.

Really? Said bipolar narcissist certainly inflated the story but I don't remember Chris Engen denying that he quit due to the gay content. I remember a Unabomber-esque rant about how his intolerance was his own business and needed to be respected. And of course, the old "some of my best friends are gay people" saw.

Then why is more than one source reporting the same thing with different bits of info? Even Soap Opera Digest has it now.

For the last time, your opinion or my opinion about Frons, Valentini and Carlivati is irrelevant to this issue. This is apparently a situation where an actor refused to play a gay-friendly scene, and was replaced with another actor who was (gasp!) a minority and over 40. If it was all a scheme to weed out the old ladies and the Latinas (who they don't have to pay unless they want to, since she was recurring to begin with), why isn't Carlotta just gone? It's certainly true that ABC does treat its vets, its women and its minorities like [!@#$%^&*] a lot, but trying to claim that as a defense of Mauceri in this situation is cynical at best and willfully ignorant at worst. What would it take for you to believe ABC did not make this happen?

[miajere]

You're right, it is possible to disapprove of both parties, but I do find it interesting and ironic for reasons stated above. I mean these soaps have been altering and catering to puritanical viewers for decades. You're definitely welcome to your viewpoint, but I disagree. Not because I know this woman and what was going on in her head, but because no one does; nor have I been satisfied by the reports presented.

And I think you've greatly exaggerated my viewpoints of a scheming network- or "evil empire". I'm speaking from a place that understands that there are philosophies in place that allow our society to continue under certain guidelines- which involve certain levels of discrimination; and that's not just the soap industry that's most American industries- fashion, television, advertising, etc. But we can agree to disagree.