Jump to content

June 8-12, 2009


Toups

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 114
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

I don't think that I agree. IMO, ATWT changed under JP. She returned ATWT its roots focus on family. She established the Munson/Steinbecks as the central family and wrote more connections between family members. I think viewers stuck with the show because it felt familiar. I hated ATWT under her and Goutman from jump and missed Hogan almost immediately. Despite his flaws (and there were many), I preferred Hogan's storytelling style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Hogan's storytelling style at ATWT was often about horrible things happening to women and/or children, women who exist only for marriage and babies and what a man wants, cold, unpleasant worlds without family or friends, lack of respect for history or consistent characterization, and sleazy, misogynistic, completely callous leading men peddled as the next big thing. This seems to carry through to all his shows. I'm still amazed at how he completely butchered Craig Montgomery. He also seems to have no idea of how to actually pace or tell any type of soap story. It's always stunt, then periods of malaise, then he gets bored and goes on to the next stunt. I don't know who influenced who in JP/Hogan, because I never cared for her work on AMC (where we got great moments like Gillian being shot in the head and people literally kicking down the hospital door to take out her heart), but I think Hogan has his own personal ugly style of writing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've come around to Carl's POV about Hogan being a misogynist. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but what sealed it for me was Y&R making Dr. Taylor an ob-gyn who sexually molests his patients at their most vulnerable. There are countless other crimes Taylor could have committed so that Adam was able to blackmail him. Why did the writers choose this one? And now he is crazy and vulnerable Ashley's doctor? Considering all the other abuse Ashley is taking, this is just misogyny for misogyny's sake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Are there any online petitions out there (that might actually make a difference) about removing Goutman and Pissanante from ATWT? I would sign it. I feel like I would like to do something to give back to the soap I have watched since the mid eighties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I do remember enjoying that mess where Hayley "killed" Arlene and then began to believe she was Arlene.

Wasn't that also when Ryan acted like a big manslut (more than usual) at the yacht party. Mindless slut is what Ryan should always be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I know this is more about primetime shows, but if it is this bad so far for primetime, daytime can't be fairing too well either. I sure hate to see budgets cut more for all the shows.

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/t...iD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

Advertisers aren't lining up for TV's fall lineups

Last update: June 18, 2009 - 8:27 PM

HOLLYWOOD - June is typically the time of year when the broadcast networks ring up billions of dollars in commercial sales for the coming television season. But this hasn't been a typical year.

Declining audiences, an extremely fragile economy and bankruptcy filings by cash-strapped U.S. automakers -- traditionally among the biggest TV advertisers -- have made it more difficult for network advertising executives to sell commercial time this spring.

A month after unveiling their new fall shows as bait, the networks still haven't hooked any big-fish advertisers. Network executives declined to discuss it at length this week, but acknowledged that buying hasn't begun.

In recent years, ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and the CW by mid-June had sold the bulk of their commercial time for the season that begins in September. Last June, the networks wrote more than $9 billion in prime-time advertising commitments within a few days.

"It's definitely a different atmosphere than what we are used to," said Andrew Donchin, a major ad buyer with Carat. "It's much more of a buyers' market. And there is more pressure on the ad agencies this year to realize greater value for their clients."

In preliminary negotiations, advertisers have demanded that the networks slash their rates by as much as 15 percent compared to last year, according to people familiar with the discussions. Network executives have balked, hoping to hold the line on last year's prices.

The stalemate is responsible for delaying the kick-off of the important market known as the "upfront." Networks typically sell as much as 80 percent of their commercial inventory for the coming year in advance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yeah, but I don't understand why everyone assumes this is Sheffer. Could it not be MAB? She approves everything. Chris Goutman was heading things up at ATWT when Sheffer was there, and the show was JUST as misogynistic after Sheffer left.

He seems to get the brunt of this, and I'll never understand why. The boards tend to have this all-knowing authority that it must be one person, but it baffles me how that's known. I'm not saying the guy's perfect, but somehow I think if you were to take him out of the equation, not much would change.

This is scary as hell. Wow. Thanks for posting it, Steve!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That's why I think that Pass was influenced a lot by Sheffer. Sure she had some bad stories but her AW and AMC weren't as mysoginistic as her ATWT is. And ATWT was not mysoginistic until Sheffer got there.

I do agree that part of this could be MAB who knows.

I mean Y&R had started on the mysoginistic route even before they got there but not as much as it is now. To me it started with the bumping up of Victor even more of a mysoginist than he ever was. He really turned that way when Latham got hold of him - super mysoginist. That is where I think the problem is in writing Nikki and Victoria more than even Amelia Heinle's portrayal of Victoria. I have seen Amelia Heinle on Loving and the girl could play feisty better than anyone. I just think they are writing Victoria to be inferior to the men in her life esp. her father.

And my biggest fear is that Y&R is getting ready to move into another form of mysogyny. I know that the possible story for Rafe/Adam is a new twist for daytime. But if goes the way I think it is going to go - it is just going to be another way for the macho straight man to be mysogynistic on the soaps. Let's give viewers waht they want and this time let's don't pick on women but now lets pick on the gays. That is my fear with the story. Even though it is possibly going to be innovative - in the end I think it is just going to be another mysogynistic turn for daytime's straight men. And just put another "gender" under their thumb or inferior to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

ITA. I think it is part of the Bells are gods attitude that some Y&R fans have so they blame everyone, but MAB for the crap on the screen and the turmoil behind the scenes. Sheffer, Rauch and Hamner all work for MAB so she is responsible for the misogyny on Y&R.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

True, but that's why I put more of the blame on Goutman than on Sheffer. I find it easier to believe that Goutman is consistently misogynistic than to believe Sheffer had such an influence on a 10-year soap writer veteran in two years time they worked together. Goutman's the common denominator in both regimes, so that's the only basis I'm using for my speculation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

How about a new concept for ya all: they are all guilty. :) All. They received millions and refused to let go of them because the show was misogynistic. Maria Arena, Hogan Sheffer, Scott Hamner, Christopher Goutman... All of them.

What a fun (read: dull as dishwater) discussion — which HW is more misogynistic than the other... :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • Actors doing this is pretty common. I used to work for a company that produced a very successful sitcom back in the 70s. Actors who were guest stars on the show would ask to be provided tapes of their episodes. I assume they do it for a variety of reasons, i.e. to create a reel of their best work. I know of some soap actors who have uploaded saved work to YT. One is Ariana Muenker, who played Christine Valere on GL. She was uploading scenes from her many soap roles a few months back. Unfortunately, it looks like either she or YT took the channel down. Sharon Gabet and Mark Arnold help the EON YT channel by providing saved episodes. Along with EON eps, Arnold shared a guest stint he did on GL. Those episodes are really interesting because they involve the introduction of Nola's character, which was tied to the Roger storyline. When he came back after faking his death, he hid out at the boarding house. Nola being a snoop figured out something was fishy with him. She ended up helping the police. Very worth seeking out. I don't think anyone else has those episodes.  Makes you wonder if there's more out there than we know of because actors don't want to be bothered to run a YT channel. Can't blame them because it's a lot of trouble, but if only... I agree. While Lucci definitely used her fame from the show to build her brand and get work outside of AMC, Erica was always part of an ensemble. Yeah, she got a couple of whacky stories (like the "unabortion") but she never took over to the detriment of other actors and stories.
    • It must have been sometime in the early 80's. VI said he first heard about Marj Dusay's talent from CH. Hickland worked with her on Capitol.
    • Not having watched AMC was one of the reasons I hesitated to make the comparison, tbf. It's odd--I feel like I could argue Cassie, Olivia, Harley and Dinah suffocated the show along with Reva the last five years.
    • Laurie and Lance accompany Leslie to her Denver concert and she relies me on Lance for support.Unbeknownst to Leslie, Brad has had the operator make a special connection to the concert hall so he can hear her concert. The Maestro, realizing Leslie’s emotional torment over her failing marriage, tries to persuade her to tell Brad about the baby, and when she refuses, he writes a letter to Brad betraying Leslie’s confidence. After another fight with her mother about how learning about her parentage has upset her life, Laurie confides to Leslie that she feels cut off, outside. Stuart overhears this conversation, and Leslie has to tell him the whole story. She tries to explain fairly how Jennifer had left Stuart and actually only spent one night with Bruce, and faced the truth about Laurie only when she was forced to. Stuart is livid over this |betrayal and wants to confront his wife ‘now, but her doctor calls. Her one-year mastectomy checkup was fine, but he’s discovered irregularities in her cardiogram and doesn’t want her under any stress until further tests can be made. Stuart assures Leslie he won’t tell her mother he knows about Laurie until he can do it calmly, and doesn’t tell his daughter about the cardiogram.  When Chris continues to receive obscene calls, Snapper goes straight to the Beckers’. Ron insists he was home with Nancy, and she corroborates this. When she steps between an advancing Snapper and her husband, screaming, “We don’t have a telephone. He couldn't have called Chris,” Snapper finally has to believe her, and he leaves. But moments later Karen tells Nancy that Daddy went out while Mommy was in the shower. Ron insists it was just a few moments, for cigarettes. Nancy lets it pass, but the next morning finds a whole carton of cigarettes in a drawer  and asks why he went out. Ron coldly tells her she’d  better pull herself together, she’s letting this thing with Chris make her a little insane. Nancy ponders telling Chris but decides that all Chris would do is  badmouth Ron again, and she and Karen have no one but Ron and can’t leave him. When a telephone-installation man arrives with their new phone, Nancy asks him not to put it in. But Ron arrives and orders the installation made, telling Nancy she’s trying to run his life, as his mother did. When Nancy tries to call Chris, Ron frighteningly tells Nancy he’s done  everything they said he did, but it’s all her fault, as she never gave him what he needed. When he informs her he’s taking Karen away from her before she can ruin her, Nancy collapses in a catatonic state. Ron then calmly calls the hospital and requests help for his wife, “Fran Jackson,” who has had a breakdown.  Laurie, seeing the extent to which Vanessa will go to keep Lance to herself, warns Lance that his mother’s possessive feelings are unhealthy. Lance suggests Vanessa will consider Leslie a threat also when he learns that Les and Brad are divorcing and things will get easier. As soon as the hospital attendants leave with Nancy, Ron dials Legal Aid and has Karen tell Chris she’s all alone. Stopping only to leave a message for Snapper about where she’s going, Chris rushes to the Beckers’ apartment, only to realize that Ron’s tricked her. Ron sends Karen out of the room and, after expressing his hatred for all women, tells Chris he’s going to prove to her he’s a man. But Karen wanders back in as he has Chris pinned to the wall, and Ron’s mind snaps when he realizes his daughter has seen his perverted side. After smashing the wall mirror, he runs out, and Greg, terrified at learning where Chris is, arrives to find her comforting Karen. Chris takes Karen home, and after several days of fruitless searching for Nancy, she applies for temporary guardianship of Karen. Peggy and Jack set a New Years Eve wedding date, but Stuart is terribly upset to realize how irrational and incomplete Peggy’s plans are. When she suddenly makes all pertinent decisions in the space of a half-hour, Stuart tells Jack this doesn’t indicate certainty, but rather proves his point—she’s just trying to convince herself that the rape didn’t affect hers and it did. A chance remark by Stuart shocks Laurie into realizing he knows she’s not his natural daughter. When she hysterically screams out her alienation and her innate feeling that she was always 'different' he assures her with tears in his eyes that since they really love each other sincerely, it makes no difference; she’ll always be his daughter. Stuart explains that Jen still doesn’t know he has learned the truth, and he would like it to continue that way. In helping Brad pay his bills, Laurie finds Maestro Fausch’s letter and tells Brad that Leslie is pregnant. Ironically, to get to him with this news, she had to get |away from Leslie, and used a meeting with Lance as an excuse. When ‘Lance arrives soon after, he’s angry that Laurie lied, and she later has to explain that she has been helping Brad. Understanding her motives, — Lance agrees that she should continue to press him to |reconcile with Leslie. Brad, however, still won’t reconsider—in fact, the news makes him even more resolute. But Vanessa has had Laurie followed, and hits Leslie with a double blow. She gives her the report saying this proves her sister is involved with her husband, and then assures Leslie that Lance loves her, — not Laurie. Badly confused and hurt, Leslie lashes out by kissing Lance while he sits with her at the piano. Leslie then waits at the apartment for Laurie, and when she arrives, she bitterly accuses her of having an affair with Brad. Laurie angrily assures Leslie she  was with Brad with Lance’s full knowledge and that Leslie’s anger means she still loves Brad. She then explains to Leslie that Brad left her because he’s blind. In shock, Leslie rushes home to confront Brad, furiously berating him for treating her like a child who cannot decide for herself. But Brad, even with Leslie now aware of the situation, refuses to reconcile with her. When Leslie tells Laurie how unreasonable Brad has been, Laurie suggests that Leslie stop seeing everything from her own angle only. 
    • In regards to the Reva vs Erica discussions... I think there was one main difference between the two characters.... Erica never took over/ate up airtime on All My Children.  While she was a larger than life character, she never took over the show and there were times she was even supporting and not the lead.... while Reva basically suffocated Guiding Light in the later years with her presence.
    • That was such a missed opportunity, especially with May sweeps.  And, it would’ve been a much better story for Naomi/Jacob than whatever’s going on with June 
    • https://www.hulu.com/hub/tv/collections/9979 Amazed! But loving it. What this shows is GH Hulu out of top 15, GH is #2 & this was Saturday. Are we happy campers? Yes, at least for the moment, you bet we are.
    • I forget his name but Tori Spelling and Jennie Garth had the EP on after they didn't understand the 60s flashback episode due to the lack of original music. He felt that was one of his strongest episodes so he came on to explain to them just how much the music changes hurt the series. Basically, they only allowed him to pick a selection of episodes he felt the music was vital and other than that they didn't bother to save the music.  They kept music for prom and things like the Color Me Badd episode and for most of the musical acts but any music you loved from the opening of the show or just music played in random scenes was cut.  I know there are also some scenes cut but I don't know too much about that. The most glaring one was Clare's final scene being cut which is obviously a huge problem for a character who'd been around for so long. Overall I was able to enjoy my rewatch using the DVDs but without all of the original music it isn't nearly as good a show.
    • Too many returns, that's when you know a show has run out of ideas and doesn't care anymore.  Zoe annoyed the sh!t out of me most times, but the Kat/Zoe storyline will always be iconic and close to my heart (that's the era I first started following the show in near real-time), and probably the only storyline in 21st century EastEnders that had long-term value for the characters involved during their initial run together. However, after all this time and the writing choice that Zoe never wants to see Kat again, I think that ship has sailed and I don't know that it makes sense to revisit it at this point. 
    • Former EastEnders star Michelle Ryan is reprising her role as Zoe Slater on the BBC soap following an absence of over 20 years.  It’s been reported that Zoe will return to Albert Square later this year and that she’ll take centre stage in a dramatic new storyline involving her family.  The news comes amidst news of other big returns, which include Max Branning (Jake Wood), Tanya Cross (Jo Joyner), Shirley Carter (Linda Henry) and Ben Mitchell (Max Bowden), who will also be back in Walford later in the year.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy