It is not perfect by any means but I am enjoying it too. Even during Bell's run the show has some clunkers of storylines.

The difference is, when Bill Bell was good, he was BRILLIANT. When MAB's good, she's just better than the rest of daytime and just OK...

But how do you know that I just "want" the show to be good and not that I actually think it's good? I don't judge the show based on what other shows do, I judge the show based on itself. When one starts to try and get into other people's brain, and tell us what we think or how we feel, and say things like people are desperate.... those are Sylphisms.

I hear you, but then again I never was specifically talking about you.... Don't know if that makes a difference. Maybe it's the psychologist in me.

I'm not sure how I can articulate this correctly, but I'll try: All I know is that Y&R fans have been whipped with crap for what seems like eons now (some of Alden, then Smith, then LML, then early MAB which was perhaps worse than LML (!), but the memory of how the show was is still very much alive in most of the fans that watch.... not that that memory is not there for other soaps. But the Y&R vets are still there, the music, the sets, basically everything. So that's a constant reminder of how things used to be... and fans--and I doubt you'll disagree--really want it to be like that again. So MAB comes, thinks up the Kay/Death story, or whatever, and things improve greatly--but only in comparison to how things have been this decade! After LML, of course MAB is the Queen of All Soaps! If we were accustomed to Bell's writing, and then suddenly got MAB, she would be so totally hated. I'm not sure if my point is coming across. This is not telling somebody how to think or feel. It's basic psychology--there are exceptions, and that's great if you are one of them. But people do overlook a lot of crap because they just want to. They're not delusional. They just want to.

The difference is, when Bill Bell was good, he was BRILLIANT. When MAB's good, she's just better than the rest of daytime and just OK...

Yes!

Ruxton, out of curiosity, which of his stories do you think were bad?

I hear you, but then again I never was specifically talking about you.... Don't know if that makes a difference. Maybe it's the psychologist in me.

I'm not sure how I can articulate this correctly, but I'll try: All I know is that Y&R fans have been whipped with crap for what seems like eons now (some of Alden, then Smith, then LML, then early MAB which was perhaps worse than LML (!), but the memory of how the show was is still very much alive in most of the fans that watch.... not that that memory is not there for other soaps. But the Y&R vets are still there, the music, the sets, basically everything. So that's a constant reminder of how things used to be... and fans--and I doubt you'll disagree--really want it to be like that again. So MAB comes, thinks up the Kay/Death story, or whatever, and things improve greatly--but only in comparison to how things have been this decade! After LML, of course MAB is the Queen of All Soaps! If we were accustomed to Bell's writing, and then suddenly got MAB, she would be so totally hated. I'm not sure if my point is coming across. This is not telling somebody how to think or feel. It's basic psychology--there are exceptions, and that's great if you are one of them. But people do overlook a lot of crap because they just want to. They're not delusional. They just want to.

Word.

Edited June 9, 200916 yr by Sylph

Eh. No.

:lol:

:lol:

:D

:D

:P

Well, I think I'm done with the non-episode discussion. I didn't get sucked it for a couple of weeks, but for some reason I did today. Bad Toups.

Okay, I'm back to only episode discussion.......the more episode talk the better it is for the thread.

Gotcha.

Well, I think I'm done with the non-episode discussion. I didn't get sucked it for a couple of weeks, but for some reason I did today. Bad Toups.

Okay, I'm back to only episode discussion.......the more episode talk the better it is for the thread.

That's such an easy way out, Toups! You can't do that.

You have to point in what's wrong with YRBB's post! (Nothing.)

That's such an easy way out, Toups! You can't do that.

You have to point in what's wrong with YRBB's post! (Nothing.)

I'll pm my thoughts to YRBB.

I don't want to clutter this thread with non-episode discussion anymore.

I hear you, but then again I never was specifically talking about you.... Don't know if that makes a difference. Maybe it's the psychologist in me.

I'm not sure how I can articulate this correctly, but I'll try: All I know is that Y&R fans have been whipped with crap for what seems like eons now (some of Alden, then Smith, then LML, then early MAB which was perhaps worse than LML (!), but the memory of how the show was is still very much alive in most of the fans that watch.... not that that memory is not there for other soaps. But the Y&R vets are still there, the music, the sets, basically everything. So that's a constant reminder of how things used to be... and fans--and I doubt you'll disagree--really want it to be like that again. So MAB comes, thinks up the Kay/Death story, or whatever, and things improve greatly--but only in comparison to how things have been this decade! After LML, of course MAB is the Queen of All Soaps! If we were accustomed to Bell's writing, and then suddenly got MAB, she would be so totally hated. I'm not sure if my point is coming across. This is not telling somebody how to think or feel. It's basic psychology--there are exceptions, and that's great if you are one of them. But people do overlook a lot of crap because they just want to. They're not delusional. They just want to.

One last bit of non-episode discussion from me: AS a psychologist -- degreed, member of APA-- I fully acknowledge the kinds of contrast/comparison results you mention. We see it in social comparisons (e.g., when I compare myself to someone I perceive to be better or worse) and temporal comparisons (I compare myself to a time in my life I considered better or worse).

We also see it in perceptual comparisons (e.g., the historical work on the Just Noticeable Difference was all about the minimum perceptual comparisons we could make -- and that requires having (for example) a higher versus lower frequencies).

So. you're ABSOLUTELY right. Part of the affection for MAB, I guess, could be due to disappointment with the recent prior regimes.

But what people are saying in this thread is two things that that argument ignores. FIRST, on objective "evidential" merits, there are many good things to be had right now. SECOND, on comparative grounds, there are ways in which this show compares favorably even to Bill Bell's Y&R.

That's not just 'hope'. That's not just Tinkerbell-clapping, really. It is, however, a legitimate difference of opinion.

Now...I'm gonna go watch the episode.

One last bit of non-episode discussion from me: AS a psychologist -- degreed, member of APA-- I fully acknowledge the kinds of contrast/comparison results you mention. We see it in social comparisons (e.g., when I compare myself to someone I perceive to be better or worse) and temporal comparisons (I compare myself to a time in my life I considered better or worse).

We also see it in perceptual comparisons (e.g., the historical work on the Just Noticeable Difference was all about the minimum perceptual comparisons we could make -- and that requires having (for example) a higher versus lower frequencies).

So. you're ABSOLUTELY right. Part of the affection for MAB, I guess, could be due to disappointment with the recent prior regimes.

But what people are saying in this thread is two things that that argument ignores. FIRST, on objective "evidential" merits, there are many good things to be had right now. SECOND, on comparative grounds, there are ways in which this show compares favorably even to Bill Bell's Y&R.

That's not just 'hope'. That's not just Tinkerbell-clapping, really. It is, however, a legitimate difference of opinion.

Now...I'm gonna go watch the episode.

Love the lingo.

:P

I love it when you say Eh. No.! Love, love, love! Completely a trademark-worthy line!

One last bit of non-episode discussion from me: AS a psychologist -- degreed, member of APA--

No wonder you rationalize the hell out of everything on this show, no matter how bad or ludicrous it is.

But what people are saying in this thread is two things that that argument ignores. FIRST, on objective "evidential" merits, there are many good things to be had right now. SECOND, on comparative grounds, there are ways in which this show compares favorably even to Bill Bell's Y&R.

I could argue that you can't be "objective" about any merits. But, anyway. You say MAB better than Bell? On what exactly? I'm really curious.

That's not just Tinkerbell-clapping, really.

I've never heard this one before, it's fun!

No wonder you rationalize the hell out of everything on this show, no matter how bad or ludicrous it is.