Absolutely, women are the target audience for soaps, particularly those in the 18-49 age group. But look at the state of women in daytime, it's really pathetic.

Y&R is horrendously misogynistic at the moment, and I'd say it's been so for a while now. Yet ANOTHER weakness of this writing regime is its inability to write strong female characters.

I think it's one of many reasons soaps are about to be extinct. The way women are written is very out of date, but it's also what a big part of the audience is used to. So they have lost many people who want to see a more modern version of women, but the audience they have left isn't ready or willing to change. I think that's part of the problem with integrating gay characters/storylines as well.

thats kinda how I feel. I love Sharon and she's my favorite character but now I cant really defend her when her haters attack her. The S in Sharon stands for slut, skank, skeezer! What I hate most as there is NO accountability for her disgusting behavior. She keeps sleeping around and nobody seems phased by it except for MJ and Phyllis. The guys keep telling her they love her in spite of it and people just feel sorry for her and prop her up like she's some saint or angel. She keeps saying she's sorry and how things are her fault and that she's wrong but it means absolutely nothing bc she goes right back to her slutty ways within the hour. Thats not taking responsibilty and it negates any good intentions she does have. I cant even see a mental breakdown as a viable excuse anymore bc its been months and months and at some point it has to be unnacceptable

See, I think that is the point. Nick and Sharon need SERIOUS therapy...dealing at least with the time since Cassie's death...but maybe even before (serial affairs, etc.).

What you're seeing is the long legacy of unresolved issues, coupled with enabling behaviors. NOT PRETTY.

In that sense, I think the show has taken a fairly uncompromising view of these soap opera "quads" and "true love" and all the soap conventions. I think they're shining a light on the sickness beneath it. NOT a romantic tale, I fully admit. But an adult tale. A thought provoking tale. A tale that inspires controversy and discussion. A tale that shows you there IS no one to root for here.

For me, it sort of focuses light on the fact that NONE of these people "belong" together...they all have too much personal sh!t to work on first.

Then, if they do the work, maybe someday they can be good partners again. But not now...uh uh.

I'm THRILLED that this isn't a bunch of hearts-and-flowers musical montages and happy reunions. We get to see something darker and rawer, and not the typical soap fantasy bullsh!t.

I did love the irony that just as Adam as plotting even more mayhem & destruction, Victor has gone out and bought a company to help his "blind" son. Victor's gonna be so mad when he finds out what Junior's been up to.

I missed that. What kind of company was it?

Ever since Maria Arena Bell, Rauch, and Sheffer started their material, I think the Newman women have headed more towards mental breakdowns. Nikki fell off the wagon and rolled around in the sand. Sharon's heretofore unknown blackouts, klepto and promiscuity. Ashley being gaslighted by Adam. Phyllis and her return to the edge. I think the stories are more about the men in their lives than about their own struggles.

I know Ashley has had mental breaks before but I thought those were about her. I think her current problems are more like a plot point (so far) to facilitate Adam's scheming.

LOL at the sand-rolling image.

I think it is fair to say that the writers are trying to stay away from the sappy and ...like the last Restless Style...trying to shine some light on the dark side of love.

With one gag-worthy and lame exception.

Works for me, but I fully admit that there is a lack of balance!

I don't see that being fixed this summer...but maybe after the current spate of stories ends (by my estimate, that will happen, all in a bunch, around 9/1/09...they seem to write in 3-month arcs these days).

I missed that. What kind of company was it?

Stem cell, right?

I think it's one of many reasons soaps are about to be extinct. The way women are written is very out of date, but it's also what a big part of the audience is used to. So they have lost many people who want to see a more modern version of women, but the audience they have left isn't ready or willing to change. I think that's part of the problem with integrating gay characters/storylines as well.

What upsets me is it didn't used to be this way. The soaps were progressive in portrayals of women, compared to primetime and even some film, 30, 20 years ago, even 15 years ago. Ever since then it's rapidly gone backwards, as it has for minorities and some would say even for gay characters. It's especially shocking how many "it isn't really rape because deep down she wanted it" stories daytime has told this decade.

I think it's one of many reasons soaps are about to be extinct. The way women are written is very out of date, but it's also what a big part of the audience is used to. So they have lost many people who want to see a more modern version of women, but the audience they have left isn't ready or willing to change.

Yep.

LOL at the sand-rolling image.

I think it is fair to say that the writers are trying to stay away from the sappy and ...like the last Restless Style...trying to shine some light on the dark side of love.

I see what you mean. I guess they're also trying to bring more depth to the Newmans, although I think this could have been served by recasting Victoria and Abby, and writing a more layered Adam. There's still hope for Victoria and Abby though.

What upsets me is it didn't used to be this way. The soaps were progressive in portrayals of women, compared to primetime and even some film, 30, 20 years ago, even 15 years ago. Ever since then it's rapidly gone backwards, as it has for minorities and some would say even for gay characters. It's especially shocking how many "it isn't really rape because deep down she wanted it" stories daytime has told this decade.

I think for Y&R, in particular, the problem is the lead men. Victor, Jack...these are not Alan Alda men.

So, it is sort of in their nature that they subjugate their women...use and abuse them...and they have since the early 80s.

Thus, for this show, the "weak women" in the orbit of the show's two leading men is nothing new.

I missed that. What kind of company was it?

A company that specializes in stem-cell research. I never thought I would say this but poor Victor. Even he doesn't deserve Adam for a son. And that's part of the problem with the writing. Would Adam Wilson really end up being a worse person than Victor Newman? I guess absolute Harvard corrupts absolutely.

The cast is too big. If we had a fuller storyline for Ashley, where we see her being a competent mother, a good businesswoman, a good sibling -- then having her so easily duped by Adam would read a lot better. He would just be her "blind spot." But since all we see is Ashley being duped by Adam or being coddled by Victor, the only Ashley we know is victimized Ashley.

Sharon is a joke. She will basically destroy herself if she doesn't get the man she wants, and then act all sad about the pain she's causing. Even Emma Bovary and Anna Karenina had more moxie and pride than this.

Phyllis is the most frustrating. She should be so damn fierce and so darn angry with Nick. And that fierceness is what would make Nick immediately regret leaving her for wallflower Sharon. Watching Phyllis simper over Nick has been the most sickening part of the quad.

Edited June 10, 200916 yr by cara mia

It's especially shocking how many "it isn't really rape because deep down she wanted it" stories daytime has told this decade.

Or "it isn't really rape because rape only counts when it happens to certain characters"

What upsets me is it didn't used to be this way. The soaps were progressive in portrayals of women, compared to primetime and even some film, 30, 20 years ago, even 15 years ago. Ever since then it's rapidly gone backwards, as it has for minorities and some would say even for gay characters. It's especially shocking how many "it isn't really rape because deep down she wanted it" stories daytime has told this decade.

I completely agree with all that. It's too bad that no one will approve a new daytime project because I think if some new soaps could start up without the built in conservative audience some of these issues could be addressed better. I think the conservative nature of the core soap watchers is part of what's killing the genre. Not because being conservative is bad, but because I think many people want something more edgy.

Although, one thing about Y&R right now is that it's not at all that kid friendly. That's really struck me over the last week. Some people say kids should never watch soaps, but even now the audience is filled with stay at home moms. Thank god for DVR's because there is no explaining the bed hopping that is going on right now. It's really pretty scandalous for daytime. On the upside explaining gay characters in bed doesn't seem like the challenge to me that it once did.

I completely agree with all that. It's too bad that no one will approve a new daytime project because I think if some new soaps could start up without the built in conservative audience some of these issues could be addressed better. I think the conservative nature of the core soap watchers is part of what's killing the genre. Not because being conservative is bad, but because I think many people want something more edgy.

Although, one thing about Y&R right now is that it's not at all that kid friendly. That's really struck me over the last week. Some people say kids should never watch soaps, but even now the audience is filled with stay at home moms. Thank god for DVR's because there is no explaining the bed hopping that is going on right now. It's really pretty scandalous for daytime. On the upside explaining gay characters in bed doesn't seem like the challenge to me that it once did.

Not just bed hopping. Also bloody miscarriage residue at the bottom of the stairs!

Not just bed hopping. Also bloody miscarriage residue at the bottom of the stairs!

I know. But Ashley just had a boo boo, Mark. And normally Sharon and Jack just love each other like mommy and daddy. And Luke and Noah kiss because sometimes boys love other boys instead of girls. But when Jack love Sharon, then Phyllis and then MJ, well, that's when I stop watching Y&R live.

I know. But Ashley just had a boo boo, Mark. And normally Sharon and Jack just love each other like mommy and daddy. And Luke and Noah kiss because sometimes boys love other boys instead of girls. But when Jack love Sharon, then Phyllis and then MJ, well, that's when I stop watching Y&R live.

What about when Adam love Heather and then Rafe and ....

What about when Adam love Heather and then Rafe and ....

:lol: I think it's going to be DVR time for me for the foreseeable future. Call me a chicken. Seriously though I grew up watching soaps and I think the biggest problem is the glamorization of alcohol. All the sex in the world doesn't concern me as much as that when it comes to my kids.