They don't have to worry about it anymore. They can make these big mistakes like this because they can do whatever they want and fans will say it is okay when they undo it. And I used to be the same way, but I have gotten to the point where enough is enough.

Jesse's return from the dead was my breaking point. I can't stand those stories anymore, and I just don't trust soaps at all anymore. And as long as fans accept the returns because it is one of their faves they will keep writing these death stories becuase they know at a later point if they want to use the character they can. they just create some convoluted story and fans say well it's okay since it's my fave.

THere used to be a point where the writers took death seriously because they couldn't undo it so easily. Now they don't have to worry about how often they use it or anything.

I think the fear of someone returning is part of the reason people are sick of these deaths, but in some cases viewers probably know the person won't return (like Stuart). I think people just don't get the thrill the show seems to get out of characters being slaughtered. It's almost a leering tone, like we're supposed to get off on this brutality. Then the actual aftermath of their death often ends up being more about extraneous characters, like all this with Liza and Zendall trampling over the story.

I'm not a fan of stunts, but you really can't blame them for pulling out all the stops. TPTB know that these shows are toast in five years, and they're trying to do whatever it takes to keep them afloat for the short term. Translation: pen shocking plot twists, which are more likely to appeal to the quick-fix 18-49's than to the make 'em wait 50+'s. And if these stunts are at the expense of history or mean the demise of beloved characters, they don't care. If, as in the past, they were plotting stories that they knew would impact the show, say ten years in the future, they would probably more deliberatly weigh radical story decisions (like killing off Stuart). No one's looking past the next contract cycle for these shows anymore, so it's anything goes. Obviously the Bell shows are safer than the other shows, which I think is reflected in their more careful storytelling and better respect for history. Sure they do stunts too, but they're not as transparent.

Edited May 30, 200916 yr by LoyaltoAMC

I'm not a fan of stunts, but you really can't blame them for pulling out all the stops. TPTB know that these shows are toast in five years, and they're trying to do whatever it takes to keep them afloat for the short term. Translation: pen shocking plot twists, which are more likely to appeal to the quick-fix 18-49's than to the make 'em wait 50+'s. And if these stunts are at the expense of history or mean the demise of beloved characters, they don't care. If, as in the past, they were plotting stories that they knew would impact the show, say ten years in the future, they would probably more deliberatly weigh radical story decisions (like killing off Stuart). No one's looking past the next contract cycle for these shows anymore, so it's anything goes. Obviously the Bell shows are safer than the other shows, which I think is reflected in their more careful storytelling and better respect for history. Sure they do stunts too, but they're not as transparent.

I think the Bell shows are more into stunts now (like killing Brad, which led to nothing, or killing Phoebe, which just led to yet another feud between Brooke and Stephanie). I think all the soaps are in that direction. I can see why they're desperate, but I still think that a sustained period of organic, natural storytelling, no gimmicks, no hysteria, might eventually get ratings up. If that fails, then how about a stunt which actually has consequences? Viewers know these deaths will lead to very little so why would they care? On AMC, Zach took the wrap for Kendall accidentally knocking Greenlee off the road. Now, only a few months later, he's taking the wrap for her being accused of killing Stuart. In a few months, is he going to confess so she won't be blamed for killing Joe, or Angie, or Amanda?

Toups do you have the ratings yet. Are you still eating.

I think the Bell shows are more into stunts now (like killing Brad, which led to nothing, or killing Phoebe, which just led to yet another feud between Brooke and Stephanie). I think all the soaps are in that direction. I can see why they're desperate, but I still think that a sustained period of organic, natural storytelling, no gimmicks, no hysteria, might eventually get ratings up. If that fails, then how about a stunt which actually has consequences? Viewers know these deaths will lead to very little so why would they care? On AMC, Zach took the wrap for Kendall accidentally knocking Greenlee off the road. Now, only a few months later, he's taking the wrap for her being accused of killing Stuart. In a few months, is he going to confess so she won't be blamed for killing Joe, or Angie, or Amanda?

Oh yeah, I didn't say the Bell shows weren't all about stunts. I do think for the most part, though, that they're not as obvious about them and they're done with at least a modicum of respect for the show's history and with the intent of meaningfully impacting key, long-term characters and future storylines (the Brad thing aside). I'm not a huge fan of MAB's writing, as many on this board are. I find some of her character motivations highly questionable and her stories a bit too convoluted (that's a whole separate topic) and I've always seen B&B as a bad joke, almost a parody of Y&R's worst features, but all in all the writing for these two shows doesn't have that over-the-top, born-of-desperation "WATCH ME!" feel to it. At least that's my perception.

I've never really understood why AMC thought a murder of Adam or Stuart would bring in viewers. They bungled Josh's murder and Greenlee's "death", and killed off other people like Di with no followup, so why would fans tune in just to see if they were to make the same mistakes again?

I think they'd think threatining to kill off a major character would bring in viewers BECAUSE it's the one stunts that usually still works for the soaps. Pratt's ratings have taken a dip over the past 6 weeks. I'd argue it's the alienation that his prior writing (that was getting good numbers, so eh...) caused, and that his current writing probably still is to some - but really who knows. It's shocking to me that their numbers may have actually fallen for that week, because however crappy everything around it was in the past - AMC has usually been able to pull a +200,000 playing the death card. At least a week of it.

JR nearly kills Kendall:

5/1/06.......*4.....2.6.....09.....3) 1.8/12.....4) 3,259,000

5/8/06.........4.....2.8.....10.....3) 2.0/13.....3) 3,591,000 (+332,000/+102,000)

Patch of the serial killer story, critcally panned, but got AMC's numbers up, these were just the biggest weeks:

1/8/07.......*5.....2.6.....09.....5) 1.6/10.....5) 3,262,000 (+136,000/+008,000)

1/15/07.......6.....2.6.....08.....5) 1.6/09.....6) 3,277,000 (+015,000/+020,000)

1/22/07.....*4.....2.5.....08.....5) 1.6/10.....6) 3,183,000 (-094,000/+019,000)

1/29/07.....*4.....2.6.....08.....5) 1.6/10.....6) 3,331,000 (+148,000/+113,000)

2/5/07.........4.....2.7.....09...*4) 1.6/10.....4) 3,423,000 (+092,000/-007,000)

2/12/07.......4.....2.8.....08.....4) 1.7/10.....4) 3,556,000 (+133,000/+155,000)

I believe this was the summer of "children at risk":

7/2/07.........5.....2.2.....07.....4) 1.3/08.....5) 2,812,000

7/9/07.........5.....2.3.....07.....5) 1.3/09.....6) 2,839,000 (+027,000/-447,000)

7/16/07.......5.....2.3.....07.....5) 1.4/09.....5) 2,917,000 (+078,000/-269,000)

7/23/07.......5.....2.4.....08...*4) 1.5/10.....5) 3,101,000 (+184,000/-106,000)

Not Real Greenlee almost dies (+ Holiday):

12/17/07...*5.....2.0.....07...*4) 1.2/08.....7) 2,466,000

12/24/07...*5.....2.1.....06...*5) 1.3/07.....6) 2,835,000 (+369,000/-487,000)

Tad shot. Jesse gunfight:

5/19/08.....*6.....2.0.....07.....6) 1.2/08.....7) 2,496,000

5/26/08.....*4.....2.1.....07...*5) 1.3/09.....4) 2,713,000 (+217,000/-316,000)

Tornado:

10/6/08.....*4.....1.9.....06...*6) 1.1/07.....7) 2,430,000

10/13/08...*6.....1.9.....07.....5) 1.1/07.....7) 2,506,000 (+076,000/-172,000)

10/20/08...*3.....2.1.....07...*3) 1.3/07...*3) 2,743,000 (+237,000/+207,000)

Real Greenlee's "death":

2/9/09.......*6.....1.9.....06...*5) 1.1/07.....6) 2,501,000

2/16/09.....*4.....2.1.....07.....5) 1.2/07.....5) 2,729,000 (+228,000/-167,000)

I used to would have said you were right about the Bell soaps respecting history. After the most recent return I have my doubts about even that on Y&R. I don't think they respect it at all anymore.

They have a writer who is a good writer if she would just concentrate on writing the show instead of trying to win friends and influence fans. It is almost as if she has read the Internet message boards and set out to right everything perceived wrong by the majority of fans instead of concentrating on the show itself.

I think she could be good for Y&R but let's quit looking to what has been done to the show and redoing the past and just concentrate on the future. I have no problems with using history to tell a story but when you keep living in the past and going back over everything that has been done, it gets old very fast.

I can see your point to a certain extent about them doing stunts Loyal, but I don't even think that is why they do these anymore. I think it is just plain out lazy writing. Instead of trying to come up with something inventive and creative, they just go with the convenient.

They have a writer who is a good writer if she would just concentrate on writing the show instead of trying to win friends and influence fans. It is almost as if she has read the Internet message boards and set out to right everything perceived wrong by the majority of fans instead of concentrating on the show itself.

I think she could be good for Y&R but let's quit looking to what has been done to the show and redoing the past and just concentrate on the future. I have no problems with using history to tell a story but when you keep living in the past and going back over everything that has been done, it gets old very fast.

Well said, Steve. I agree with you 100% on this.

I can see your point to a certain extent about them doing stunts Loyal, but I don't even think that is why they do these anymore. I think it is just plain out lazy writing. Instead of trying to come up with something inventive and creative, they just go with the convenient.

I agree with you again. Wasn't it Agnes Nixon who once said fans aren't going to tune in for some plot driven stunts or something like that? They want to see real stories affecting the lives of the characters they care about.

Thoe 18-49 demo is so stagnant, but really, nothing is really going to change that.

Edited May 30, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Jesse's return from the dead was my breaking point. I can't stand those stories anymore, and I just don't trust soaps at all anymore. And as long as fans accept the returns because it is one of their faves they will keep writing these death stories becuase they know at a later point if they want to use the character they can. they just create some convoluted story and fans say well it's okay since it's my fave.

THere used to be a point where the writers took death seriously because they couldn't undo it so easily. Now they don't have to worry about how often they use it or anything.

I totally agree with you that it is bad that fans keep agreeing to characters coming back from the dead, or even requesting that sometimes. You can't keep un-writing deaths. Even when it shouldn't have happened, it happened, and it needs to have consequences into the future.

This same dynamic is showing up in the fan requests on the Another World Today discussion board. Alina Adams has already agreed to bring back a certain popular dead character (I won't give away the spoiler of who) once the two main stories right now finish off, and there are other characters being pleaded for to come back from the dead as well. I posted there to say I really hope fans will resist this temptation.

Edited May 30, 200916 yr by jfung79

ATWT is Doomed!! Goutman taking another soap to cancellation. You suck Goutman!!

I think the low ratings for Days was because of safe making love

wow when did Days drop? Last time I checked it was solid at 3rd place

Unless ATWT experiences a miracle with its 18-49 women demo, it is gone next year. I hope another soap takes on Maura West. ABC does not like women her age, but she is a real talent that any soap will be lucky to have. Both OLTL and AMC could do with an actress like Maura West.