Carolyn Culliton was responsible for the creation of the laughable Justine plot. Why not give her a long lost twin and just repeat the Vickie/Marley story or better yet do a DID story.  I hated every minute of Justine and was horrified that King/Carlson/Phelps/Lemay continued it.  Terrible.  No wonder Culliton never lasted as a head writer. And VW was cringeworthy in most scenes. Embarrassing. 

They really didn't know how to write for Victoria Wyndham. Her big storylines were a bust save for her romance with Carl. The Red Swan went nowhere and the Justine storyline was just....don't know what to say. Like Dustin Hoffman and his Rainman character, Wyndham was never able to shake Justine for the rest of the AW run. 

8 minutes ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

Carolyn Culliton was responsible for the creation of the laughable Justine plot. Why not give her a long lost twin and just repeat the Vickie/Marley story or better yet do a DID story.  I hated every minute of Justine and was horrified that King/Carlson/Phelps/Lemay continued it.  Terrible.  No wonder Culliton never lasted as a head writer. And VW was cringeworthy in most scenes. Embarrassing. 

When it was pitched it seemed to many, including VW, that it had possibilities, that it held merit within it, but, by the halfway point, she & everyone I think knew it had gone very widely awry. It is my experience that this is something that can happen to the best of ideas. I do not judge CCulliton harshly based on one story that did not work.There are certainly cringeworthy moments that I see no point in even mentioning. Talking about Justine for 3 minutes is 2 minutes too long.

Moving on, ... wasn't CCulliton a part of the redemption of Carl & the romance of Rachel? That 18 month, slow burn, man saved by the love of a good woman story was to me the best of the end tales. I am particularly fond of the Poet's Walk in NYC. And, I had a great appreciation of the parallel to Mac's love redeeming Rachel years before. 

28 minutes ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

Carolyn Culliton was responsible for the creation of the laughable Justine plot. Why not give her a long lost twin and just repeat the Vickie/Marley story or better yet do a DID story.  I hated every minute of Justine and was horrified that King/Carlson/Phelps/Lemay continued it.  Terrible.  No wonder Culliton never lasted as a head writer. And VW was cringeworthy in most scenes. Embarrassing. 

Yes, it was an awful plot.  But many of daytime's biggest female stars were getting twin or doppelgänger storylines, and I suppose someone thought VW deserved one. Yuck!  Plus, a few years earlier, P&G had invested millions in some very expensive camera special effects equipment that allowed their shows to do twin/doppelgänger scenes that looked completely natural.  And P&G wanted to get their money's worth.  The equipment did work incredibly well, and all those actors playing dual roles really were undetectable, at least technically. Great special effects for shows that were shot on tape, not film.  I believe (but could be wrong) that P&G purchased the equipment around 1987-88 after the Frannie/Sabrina plot on ATWT, but before Ann Heche assumed the roles of Vicki and Marley on AW.  So there were a heck of a lot of dual roles (twins, doppelgängers, a clone, etc.) on P&G soaps from 1988 forward.  Far far too many, in my opinion.  But P&G encouraged it -- perhaps even demanded it.  

And I will add that the equipment may have been purchased just before Frannie/Sabrina on ATWT, rather than after.  I just know it was in the mid-ish 1980s, as it was reported rather widely in the soap press.

Edited April 12Apr 12 by Tisy-Lish

I came across this bit in a Carolyn Hinsey column from 1996:

Quote

Another World's Jensen Buchanan (Vicky) had a baby boy, Angus O'Brien, on Feb 26. "When I found out it was going to be a boy I knew I would have my hands full," she says with a laugh. (Her first son, Conor, is 2.) She'll wrap up her maternity leave next month, and return to what could be the story of the year. We can't give it away, but if AW goes in the direction being whispered, a beloved soap veteran (hint -- he was on Santa Barbara) will find himself in a heart-wrenching story with Vicky and Jake (Tom Eplln).

Based on the timing it seems like whatever the storyline was turned out to be Bobby Reno as played by Robert Kelker Kelly, but do we know who the Santa Barbara actor might have been?

Edited April 12Apr 12 by Xanthe

13 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

I came across this bit in a Carolyn Hinsey column from 1996:

Based on the timing it seems like whatever the storyline was turned out to be Bobby Reno as played by Robert Kelker Kelly, but do we know who the Santa Barbara actor might have been?

I wonder if JFP was trying for A Martinez yet again.

2 hours ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Yes, it was an awful plot.  But many of daytime's biggest female stars were getting twin or doppelgänger storylines, and I suppose someone thought VW deserved one. Yuck!  Plus, a few years earlier, P&G had invested millions in some very expensive camera special effects equipment that allowed their shows to do twin/doppelgänger scenes that looked completely natural.  And P&G wanted to get their money's worth.  The equipment did work incredibly well, and all those actors playing dual roles really were undetectable, at least technically. Great special effects for shows that were shot on tape, not film.  I believe (but could be wrong) that P&G purchased the equipment around 1987-88 after the Frannie/Sabrina plot on ATWT, but before Ann Heche assumed the roles of Vicki and Marley on AW.  So there were a heck of a lot of dual roles (twins, doppelgängers, a clone, etc.) on P&G soaps from 1988 forward.  Far far too many, in my opinion.  But P&G encouraged it -- perhaps even demanded it.  

And I will add that the equipment may have been purchased just before Frannie/Sabrina on ATWT, rather than after.  I just know it was in the mid-ish 1980s, as it was reported rather widely in the soap press.

You'd think AW would have just cast someone who was willing to play both Vicky and Marley...

Peggy Sloane was the head writer who paired Rachel and Carl. I believe Carolyn Culliton was writing for All My Children during that period. Rachel and Carl were already married by the time Culliton's work as head writer began airing in November 1994.

31 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

Peggy Sloane was the head writer who paired Rachel and Carl. I believe Carolyn Culliton was writing for All My Children during that period. Rachel and Carl were already married by the time Culliton's work as head writer began airing in November 1994.

Thanks, Robb!

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

I came across this bit in a Carolyn Hinsey column from 1996:

Based on the timing it seems like whatever the storyline was turned out to be Bobby Reno as played by Robert Kelker Kelly, but do we know who the Santa Barbara actor might have been?

Given what RKK says & what the articles say (about his having a Pay or Play contract & NBC urging JFP to take him after DAYS fired him) I'm not sure that this refers to him. 

Just sounds to me like something planned that did not pan out.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I wonder if JFP was trying for A Martinez yet again.

You'd think AW would have just cast someone who was willing to play both Vicky and Marley...

Well, they could have! Ellen Wheeler was right there, she read & everything. I believe unfortunately that JFP was totally convinced that she had to have Jensen. I certainly was one fan who disagreed!

A. Martinez was meant to go to OLTL when JFP was on there so it wouldn't surprise me if she wanted him on AW. I can't imagine how she would have mucked that up since his time on GH was a disaster as was Buchanan's.

As for Jensen Buchanan, she couldn't play Marley and Vicky. She was awful when she did. When Ellen Wheeler returned as Marley, she wiped Buchanan off the screen. Why they gave into her demands on AW and GH  I'll never understand. I never liked her as an actress and that was before her real-life dramas became public. 

3 hours ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

Carolyn Culliton was responsible for the creation of the laughable Justine plot. Why not give her a long lost twin and just repeat the Vickie/Marley story or better yet do a DID story.  I hated every minute of Justine and was horrified that King/Carlson/Phelps/Lemay continued it.  Terrible.  No wonder Culliton never lasted as a head writer. And VW was cringeworthy in most scenes. Embarrassing. 

Was it solely from her, or was it network dictated?

8 minutes ago, chrisml said:

A. Martinez was meant to go to OLTL when JFP was on there so it wouldn't surprise me if she wanted him on AW. I can't imagine how she would have mucked that up since his time on GH was a disaster as was Buchanan's.

As for Jensen Buchanan, she couldn't play Marley and Vicky. She was awful when she did. When Ellen Wheeler returned as Marley, she wiped Buchanan off the screen. Why they gave into her demands on AW and GH  I'll never understand. I never liked her as an actress and that was before her real-life dramas became public. 

It was incredibly short-sighted. Basically Jensen didn't want to return to work *because* like many new mothers, what she really wanted was to be at home with her infant. So, they wanted her more than she wanted them & that was when she dictated no more Marley & asked for  perks.  Cannot blame her for taking advantage but Wheeler was *right there* ready to resume playing both twins. 

I'm not suggesting Buchanan be fired during or right after maternity leave. That would be appalling. I just would have fired her long before that when it was obvious she could not handle the roles. In essence, Judi Evans started playing Vicky and Buchanan was playing a combination of Paulina and Marley with a touch of Vicky. Or some weird combo as I've never gone back and watched Buchanan so I don't know what she was doing but it wasn't either character and her Vicky was not Vicky.

1 minute ago, chrisml said:

I'm not suggesting Buchanan be fired during or right after maternity leave. That would be appalling. I just would have fired her long before that when it was obvious she could not handle the roles. In essence, Judi Evans started playing Vicky and Buchanan was playing a combination of Paulina and Marley with a touch of Vicky. Or some weird combo as I've never gone back and watched Buchanan so I don't know what she was doing but it wasn't either character and her Vicky was not Vicky.

The time would have been when Buchanan left in 1994. 

4 hours ago, chrisml said:

They really didn't know how to write for Victoria Wyndham. Her big storylines were a bust save for her romance with Carl. The Red Swan went nowhere and the Justine storyline was just....don't know what to say. Like Dustin Hoffman and his Rainman character, Wyndham was never able to shake Justine for the rest of the AW run. 

After the Justine plot, VW’s Rachel adopted Justine’s speech pattern. I could not understand why she did this as Rachel Davis from Bowman Street never spoke with this accent.  Also, Rachel started wearing her hair in a bun exactly like Justine did.  It was an attractive look for VW, but the look always reminded me of Justine. She even wears her hair like this in her 25th anniversary episode.

15 minutes ago, watson71 said:

After the Justine plot, VW’s Rachel adopted Justine’s speech pattern. I could not understand why she did this as Rachel Davis from Bowman Street never spoke with this accent.  Also, Rachel started wearing her hair in a bun exactly like Justine did.  It was an attractive look for VW, but the look always reminded me of Justine. She even wears her hair like this in her 25th anniversary episode.

I believe Wyndham and Charles Keating were regularly doing productions of a play called Couplets in these years. I got the sense that Wyndham just ended up adopting her persona from that play into her work on AW, and by that point no one in charge cared enough to question her.

(why does this remind me of the Luvahs sketch on SNL)

Edited April 12Apr 12 by DRW50