4 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

For the most part, writer DS did pretty well using the past in her 25th-anniversary episodes. At least she made an obvious effort. I was sorry we did not see any interaction between Courtney and George Reinholt; this was my biggest disappointment, but Courtney's appearances with Wyndham were good.

 

Knowing that so many great scenes from the early 1970s (featuring Courtney, Reinholt, and Wyndham) still existed, I was also sorry that the only flashback given to Alice was one from 1984, when Rachel was in the hospital. It would have been much better to see scenes from 1974, when Rachel tried to kick Alice out of the country house, and Alice went berserk.

 

But yes, it would have been better to bring Alice back permanently in 1989. DS obviously knew more about the history of the character than Gary Tomlin ever did.

 

You know, Courtney had great chemistry with Tom Fuccello, who played her husband Paul Kendall on OLTL, and there was great, easygoing charm between them. Thinking about it now, Schnetzer would very well have brought out the actress' sense of humor on-screen, too, and I'll bet they would have had good chemistry!

 

Courtney's performances in her returns were very strong, especially that final scene with Rachel on the yacht, which is exquisitely acted. I'd like to see it as some sort of justice that even if Lemay's heavy trashing of her work is how many know her, most of his AW is gone, while at least a new generation of viewers (in 1989 and again on Soapnet) got to see some of her work and see her talent and charisma as an actress. 

 

Alice could have gone in so many directions as a character and really steadied the show in rocky times, and Courtney had the quirkiness as an actress to have fit into the "new" AW as well that started focusing more on friendships rather than family. 

 

If only they'd tried. 

14 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Courtney's performances in her returns were very strong, especially that final scene with Rachel on the yacht, which is exquisitely acted. I'd like to see it as some sort of justice that even if Lemay's heavy trashing of her work is how many know her, most of his AW is gone, while at least a new generation of viewers (in 1989 and again on Soapnet) got to see some of her work and see her talent and charisma as an actress. 

 

Alice could have gone in so many directions as a character and really steadied the show in rocky times, and Courtney had the quirkiness as an actress to have fit into the "new" AW as well that started focusing more on friendships rather than family. 

 

If only they'd tried. 

 

I agree. It both amuses and irks me to read commentary from later-generation soap fans who announce as fact that Courtney was a weak actress "because Lemay said so." Never mind that these viewers never actually SAW Courtney's original run on AW, themselves, or even witnessed any of Lemay's work. They take the writer's word and critique as gospel based on no first-hand experience or insight.

 

I thought Courtney was a strong, charismatic actress; very likable, blessed with an indefinable star quality that some performers are just born with, and which others never develop no matter how technically talented they are. I will grant that her spin as Maggie Ashley on OLTL was not successful, but that character was so badly conceived and written, it would have broken many fine actresses.

 

In 1989, the final scene on the yacht between Rachel and Alice was great, and brought a much-welcomed closure to the long-running rivalry between the two characters. Both actresses were superb.

 

With its endless on-screen changes throughout the years, AW could have benefited so much by having Courtney, an original cast member, at the hub of its wheel. With Courtney and Wyndham at its core, the show could have had a strong foundation upon which to build a rich tapestry on interwoven characters and storylines, rich is history. Alas, TPTB screwed it all up, over and over again.

 

At least we have many vintage scenes of Courtney available on youtube and floating around among collectors, like the first meeting between Steve and Alice, their reconciliation after their first divorce, their second wedding from 1974, Alice's infamous pot-throwing fight with Rachel, etc.

When Alice and Steve both returned for the 25th there should have been a scene with them.Maybe Alice imagining Steve returning to her and professing his love.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

When Alice and Steve both returned for the 25th there should have been a scene with them.Maybe Alice imagining Steve returning to her and professing his love.

 

Or even just looking at each other longingly from across the dance floor. Something. Anything.

Agreed. One of most failed opportunities in the history of AW. Courtney was a valuable member of the campus, and could have easily been prominently featured in her return in 1984. The Matthews family had been obliterated by that point, and she could have been the foundation upon which that family could have been built back up again.

 

The other opportunity would have been to bring her back full time in 1989. The show should have tried to have kept a few familiar faces in 1989, especially post-25th anniversary. I would have loved for Russ, Alice, and Pat all to have stayed on. Pat was supposed to have been running the New York branch of Cory, wasn't she? In an effort to keep Iris at bay (no pun intended), Rachel should have brought Pat back to Bay City to help run Cory Publishing. Russ already had ties to Sharlene, and I could have seen a triangle between Russ, Sharlene, and John, but not necessary a romantic one - they could have started to play out the Josie parentage story right away between the three of them.

7 hours ago, zanereed said:

Agreed. One of most failed opportunities in the history of AW. Courtney was a valuable member of the campus, and could have easily been prominently featured in her return in 1984. The Matthews family had been obliterated by that point, and she could have been the foundation upon which that family could have been built back up again.

 

The other opportunity would have been to bring her back full time in 1989. The show should have tried to have kept a few familiar faces in 1989, especially post-25th anniversary. I would have loved for Russ, Alice, and Pat all to have stayed on. Pat was supposed to have been running the New York branch of Cory, wasn't she? In an effort to keep Iris at bay (no pun intended), Rachel should have brought Pat back to Bay City to help run Cory Publishing. Russ already had ties to Sharlene, and I could have seen a triangle between Russ, Sharlene, and John, but not necessary a romantic one - they could have started to play out the Josie parentage story right away between the three of them.

 

TPTB never seem to care about the audience's attachment to core families, but there was still a lot of life in the Matthews clan. Alice, her daughter Sally, and grandson Kevin were all viable characters. Aunt Liz was an asset to the show, and it would have been easy to introduce her grandson Ricky Matthews into the mix. I always wanted Sam Groom to return as Russ, and if he had, there was a lot to do with him. Ditto Pat Matthews Randolph.

 

So many missed opportunities!

Did they give a reason Alice wasn't at Sally's funeral? 

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Did they give a reason Alice wasn't at Sally's funeral? 

Yes Alice was in Africa treating sick people. Aunt Liz was the only member of the Matthews family at the funeral. I recently saw the episode where Aunt Liz explained why Alice couldn't attend. I forgot the episodes date or i would've post it.

Edited April 19, 20178 yr by victoria foxton

Who decided to even kill Sally? 

 

Seeing as the actor that played Catlin didn't last much longer after Sally was killed off, they should've just given Sally and Catlin their happy ending and written them off. From seeing everyone's commentary in the past on the Brittany story, it was obvious a flop by then. They should've scrapped it, sent Brittany off into the sunset, and allowed Sally a happy ending. 

 

Boggles my mind how this show spend the better part of the early to mid 80s offing Frames and Matthews left and right. 

 

Wasn't one of Liz's daughters killed in the early 80s? Or was it her granddaughter?

5 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

Who decided to even kill Sally? 

 

Seeing as the actor that played Catlin didn't last much longer after Sally was killed off, they should've just given Sally and Catlin their happy ending and written them off. From seeing everyone's commentary in the past on the Brittany story, it was obvious a flop by then. They should've scrapped it, sent Brittany off into the sunset, and allowed Sally a happy ending. 

 

Boggles my mind how this show spend the better part of the early to mid 80s offing Frames and Matthews left and right. 

 

Wasn't one of Liz's daughters killed in the early 80s? Or was it her granddaughter?

 

Liz's adopted granddaughter Julia, played by among others Kyra Sedgwick and Faith Ford. Ford was playing Julia when she was killed. 

 

I think they killed Sally for the same reason they killed Felicia's husband Zane and then started a grisly serial killer story - to try to goose ratings. 

Just now, DRW50 said:

 

Liz's adopted granddaughter Julia, played by among others Kyra Sedgwick and Faith Ford. Ford was playing Julia when she was killed. 

 

I think they killed Sally for the same reason they killed Felicia's husband Zane and then started a grisly serial killer story - to try to goose ratings. 

 

Oh OK. I knew I read somewhere that someone close to Liz was killed too. 

 

When it comes to Zane & Sally's deaths, do you think that this all was going down b/c DAYS and SB were both having successes in serial killer stories so AW followed the trend too? 

 

I think that has always been a problem with AW. When the AW marched to it's own beat, it was a success; however, when the show would jock successes from other shows, they'd pay dearly. Is that just me seeing this? 

3 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

Who decided to even kill Sally? 

 

Seeing as the actor that played Catlin didn't last much longer after Sally was killed off, they should've just given Sally and Catlin their happy ending and written them off. From seeing everyone's commentary in the past on the Brittany story, it was obvious a flop by then. They should've scrapped it, sent Brittany off into the sunset, and allowed Sally a happy ending. 

 

Boggles my mind how this show spend the better part of the early to mid 80s offing Frames and Matthews left and right. 

 

Wasn't one of Liz's daughters killed in the early 80s? Or was it her granddaughter?

Liz's grandaughter Julia was murdered in 1984. From what i've seen of Julia on youtube she was likable and had tons of potential. Taylor Miller didn't work out as the new Sally but there was no need to kill her. I don't understand why they killed Zane either. 

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

Liz's adopted granddaughter Julia, played by among others Kyra Sedgwick and Faith Ford. Ford was playing Julia when she was killed. 

 

I think they killed Sally for the same reason they killed Felicia's husband Zane and then started a grisly serial killer story - to try to goose ratings. 

Sally & Zane where killed off a couple of months before the Sin Stalker serial killings started. Both penned by Margaret DePriest

Edited April 19, 20178 yr by victoria foxton

1 hour ago, victoria foxton said:

Liz's grandaughter Julia was murdered in 1984. From what i've seen of Julia on youtube she was likable and had tons of potential. Taylor Miller didn't work out as the new Sally but there was no need to kill her. I don't understand why they killed Zane either. 

Sally & Zane where killed off a couple of months before the Sin Stalker serial killings started. Both penned by Margaret DePriest

 

My theory on julia being killed was because the show probably thought Julia and Marley were interchangable...and since the show by 1984 preferred the loves over the Matthews..they figured offing Julia wouldn't damage the showorld long term.

 

My only thoughts on Sally and Zane were to showcase the tragic nature's of both Felicia and Caitlin...which really serves to undercut both characters especially Sally.  Even though Sally was recast a lot...I thought both jennifer Runyon and Mary Page Keller each made Sally their own..and both were quite popular as the character.

 

6 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

Who decided to even kill Sally? 

 

Seeing as the actor that played Catlin didn't last much longer after Sally was killed off, they should've just given Sally and Catlin their happy ending and written them off. From seeing everyone's commentary in the past on the Brittany story, it was obvious a flop by then. They should've scrapped it, sent Brittany off into the sunset, and allowed Sally a happy ending. 

 

Boggles my mind how this show spend the better part of the early to mid 80s offing Frames and Matthews left and right. 

 

Wasn't one of Liz's daughters killed in the early 80s? Or was it her granddaughter?

 

It was like on TGL in the 1980s, when in quick succession (or so it felt), viewers had to watch Bill Bauer and Hillary Bauer getting murdered, Mike Bauer and Hope Bauer getting shipped out of town, Bert Bauer disappearing (when the actress became ill), and Ed Bauer parading around with a new face. It was painful.

On 4/17/2017 at 11:29 PM, vetsoapfan said:

For the most part, writer DS did pretty well using the past in her 25th-anniversary episodes.

 

Except, of course, for the completely out-of-character Gwen Frame. It was as if Swajeski was writing Opal Gardner rather than the sophisticated architect Gwen had been in her initial Bay City run. 

 

Courtney and Wyndham also had a brief but very nice scene at Mac's funeral. There was so much history between them that every interaction was charged. But I guess that escaped new viewers, and that's who really mattered to TPTB.