Yep - our posts were near identical in thought. You also touched on something that MAB is doing that isn't being done on soaps: mystery. Not just "Who killed/Shot s/l's. But intriging mysteries - like Who's gaslighting Ashley, where are they going to go with Rafe. Who's Mary Jane? it keeps me so interested even when there's nothing else going on. And MAB truly lays out the clues, which I SO appreciate. Not just out of nowhere reveals (Jana killed Carmen?? Oh??). If I'm investing 5 hours a week into a show give me some brain stimulation.

This is what I loved about early LML. (I know....portals to hell in the floor will now open...). But in early LML, there were so many QUESTIONS. Why is John dizzy? Why is Victor smelling lavender and making paper dolls? Why is Brad looking at yellowed newspaper clippings?

Suddenly, like my favorite primetime shows at the time (Lost, 24, Deadwood) there were QUESTIONS that kept me thinkiing about the show in between episodes. The show engaged me in puzzles and twists.

THAT is when fiction is at its best....when it lives on between chapters.

So, to see us returning to that is actually a good thing, from my perspective.

I now await my brimstone-pelting.

Could have just put this in the weekly thread...

Will do next time, sorry.

This is what I loved about early LML. (I know....portals to hell in the floor will now open...). But in early LML, there were so many QUESTIONS. Why is John dizzy? Why is Victor smelling lavender and making paper dolls? Why is Brad looking at yellowed newspaper clippings?

Suddenly, like my favorite primetime shows at the time (Lost, 24, Deadwood) there were QUESTIONS that kept me thinkiing about the show in between episodes. The show engaged me in puzzles and twists.

THAT is when fiction is at its best....when it lives on between chapters.

So, to see us returning to that is actually a good thing, from my perspective.

I now await my brimstone-pelting.

Too bad LML's execution was horrendous and whatever clues she gave ended up making absolutely no sense. To this day, I don't get the whole Carmen Mesta mess.

And there ended being absolutely no point in Victor's epilepsy storyline, and they never explained why he was acting the way he was acting intelligently enough.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Will do next time, sorry.

There is no need to apologize. Happy postings.

BQueen: Regarding who's gaslighting Ashley.

I hope it's two people working together: one on the outside-- somebody had to retreive the things belonging to Sabrina that Victor gave away, and another on the inside-- somebody had to have access to Ash's room and credit card and be able to move about without being seen.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by JSROCKS

Too bad LML's execution was horrendous and whatever clues she gave ended up making absolutely no sense. To this day, I don't get the whole Carmen Mesta mess.

And there ended being absolutely no point in Victor's epilepsy storyline, and they never explained why he was acting the way he was acting intelligently enough.

We agree. I'm not defending how that all played out.

I'm saying that MAB-and-team are now picking up some of what was GOOD about early LML...the mysteries...the provocative questions...

It will be their chance to demonstrate that their follow-through/execution is better.

Is there any history of Patty, Paul's sister, and Victor?? I know of the history of her and Jack, but is there anything that could lead one to think she has anything in it for Victor?

Never mind the thread was deleted!

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Cashton

Word to the wise, brimike: next time you wish to insult, don't. Because, in this battle of wits, you'd just come up short.

Who's insulting? I said I liked your ideas.

Anyway, I had the same feelings about LML that you had, Mark. Her first few months were positively inspiring. It's a shame it took the turn it did, because I was really hoping for a Y&R resurgence when she first started.

Is there any history of Patty, Paul's sister, and Victor?? I know of the history of her and Jack, but is there anything that could lead one to think she has anything in it for Victor?

I don't think Victor and Patty shared any history together. As for your question on who is gaslighting Ashley: my guess is Colleen and/or Adam.

Zapato is gaslighting Ashley, damnit!

I don't think Victor and Patty shared any history together. As for your question on who is gaslighting Ashley: my guess is Colleen and/or Adam.

I am desperately wishing it's not Adam, too simple - I want something creative and quirky (not chipmunk quirky) .....I want to be caught off guard and see a great history behind the set up. I want Adam redeemed to an extent - with a father like Victor, he deserves more.

As for Colleen - I just don't think she is all that smart and I don't think she has it in for Ashley - Victor yes, but I can't imagine she would do that to Ashley.

Hmmmm, this is a storyline I am liking if only for the possibilities.

Is there any history of Patty, Paul's sister, and Victor?? I know of the history of her and Jack, but is there anything that could lead one to think she has anything in it for Victor?

Patty didn't stick around long enough to have history.

When they fleshed out Paul's family, we learned he had a high-school aged sister, Patty; an older reporter brother, Steve; an older priest brother, Todd; a cop father, Carl; and a housewife/devout Catholic mother, Mary.

Patty was a teen who wanted to grow up.

Her earliest story involved Danny Romalotti, the aspiring rock star, who was crushing on Patty (while Traci Abbot was crushing on Danny). Danny wrote this REALLY treacly story for Patty ("Patty let me know you/Patty let me show you/How I feeeeeeeeeeeeel").

Eventually...I forget exactly what happened...Patty and Danny were split apart. (I'm thinking it was when Traci got pregnant by her professor, Dr. Tim Sullivan, and Danny married her to give the baby a name). Anyway, in that period, Patty fell HARD for Jack Abbott.

When Jack was craving more responsibiliuty at work, John made it clear that he didn't think his son was stable enough. The presidency of Jabot would be his once he was married. So, before long, Jack proposed to Patty.

The marriage was doomed. Even on the eve of his wedding (shades of Billy), Jack had sex with Diane Jenkins. The affair continued into the marriage. Patty soon felt like a neglected wife, but she was buoyed when she discovered she was pregnant. When she went to Jabot to tell Jack, she spied him with Diane. Running away in tears, she crashed into a tall upright ashtray, and miscarried.

Fragile, shortly thereafter Patty was upstairs on the landing, looking down over the living room, when she overheard Jack tell Jill that he never loved Patty, and only married her for the presidency.

At that point, Patty flipped. Upthread, someone has already described that Patty, wanting to kill herself, was convinced by Jack to shoot him instead. Jack almost died, but when he recovered, he never fingered Patty.

Patty went through a long stint of not remembering. There was a conspiracy, as law-and-order cop Carl investigated the shooting, and was eventually horror struck to learn that it was his own baby girl.

After Patty finally remembered, she floundered around for a time (Khan says she started dating Danny again, but I don't really remember this). Then, feeling like she needed a fresh start, she joined brother Steve in Washington. She was never heard from again.

Do I have this right?

Patty didn't stick around long enough to have history.

When they fleshed out Paul's family, we learned he had a high-school aged sister, Patty; an older reporter brother, Steve; an older priest brother, Todd; a cop father, Carl; and a housewife/devout Catholic mother, Mary.

Patty was a teen who wanted to grow up.

Her earliest story involved Danny Romalotti, the aspiring rock star, who was crushing on Patty (while Traci Abbot was crushing on Danny). Danny wrote this REALLY treacly story for Patty ("Patty let me know you/Patty let me show you/How I feeeeeeeeeeeeel").

Eventually...I forget exactly what happened...Patty and Danny were split apart. (I'm thinking it was when Traci got pregnant by her professor, Dr. Tim Sullivan, and Danny married her to give the baby a name). Anyway, in that period, Patty fell HARD for Jack Abbott.

When Jack was craving more responsibiliuty at work, John made it clear that he didn't think his son was stable enough. The presidency of Jabot would be his once he was married. So, before long, Jack proposed to Patty.

The marriage was doomed. Even on the eve of his wedding (shades of Billy), Jack had sex with Diane Jenkins. The affair continued into the marriage. Patty soon felt like a neglected wife, but she was buoyed when she discovered she was pregnant. When she went to Jabot to tell Jack, she spied him with Diane. Running away in tears, she crashed into a tall upright ashtray, and miscarried.

Fragile, shortly thereafter Patty was upstairs on the landing, looking down over the living room, when she overheard Jack tell Jill that he never loved Patty, and only married her for the presidency.

At that point, Patty flipped. Upthread, someone has already described that Patty, wanting to kill herself, was convinced by Jack to shoot him instead. Jack almost died, but when he recovered, he never fingered Patty.

Patty went through a long stint of not remembering. There was a conspiracy, as law-and-order cop Carl investigated the shooting, and was eventually horror struck to learn that it was his own baby girl.

After Patty finally remembered, she floundered around for a time (Khan says she started dating Danny again, but I don't really remember this). Then, feeling like she needed a fresh start, she joined brother Steve in Washington. She was never heard from again.

Do I have this right?

Holy Hannah good memory! I belive you do but blasted Mark do you know how old I feel now that I can recollect it!

So it seems she being Patty doesn't have a history with Victor. But it does make sense that Victor would bring back Patty to the canvas - her brother is with Nicki.....so my theory is shot. Ok, I can live with that, I welcome Patty back and I am guessing she figures that Jack isn't the scoundrel Victor has made him out to be?

I am desperately wishing it's not Adam, too simple - I want something creative and quirky (not chipmunk quirky) .....I want to be caught off guard and see a great history behind the set up. I want Adam redeemed to an extent - with a father like Victor, he deserves more.

As for Colleen - I just don't think she is all that smart and I don't think she has it in for Ashley - Victor yes, but I can't imagine she would do that to Ashley.

Hmmmm, this is a storyline I am liking if only for the possibilities.

Colleen's not smart (as played by TS), but my money's on her (for now). She keeps showing up at the ranch for auspicious reasons. Did she really feel like going to Adam's party at the ranch with gay Rafe? She supported Adam's book idea (which everyone else loathed). She was questioned by Victor and JT about why she was there at the party. Colleen could easily gain access to Ashley's credit card, buy the dress and give it to Adam. Her motive to destroy Ashley stems more to her hatred of Victor. Also Ashely never really loved Brad, like she loved Victor. It ties into Victor using MJ to destroy Jack and Jack using Colleen. Only they could both be unraveling a bit and doing more harm to people they care about than good (MJ goes after Sharon's baby, Colleen goes after Ashley's baby). It has a ring of synchronistity.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Cashton