Sh!t...look at those GH demo falls. Sara Bibel's column to Brian Frons today is EXCORIATING, but so beautifully honest and reflective of what the UNIVERSE is saying at this point.

The question is this: Does Frons/Disney feel (as Nightline seemed to suggest) that the genre is gone...therefore these numbers are not their fault...and it lets them "move on".

Or, do they accept responsibility and take this as a warning sign? Everything in my gut says, sadly, it is the former.

I don't really see any other conclusion you can draw. Goodness knows it fills me with a special kind of satisfaction to take shots at Frons. He's sort of Carrie Prejean to my Perez Hilton. But aside from my deep, deep (did I mention DEEP?) personal enmity toward the man, I simply don't understand how somebody who has overseen this level of financial and audience decline can keep his job. At this point I feel like the only way to get rid of him is to have Obama fire him like he did GM's Rick Waggoner.

ETA: I just read Bibel's post. I'm not really on board with it because she's asking Frons to be the solution when he's the problem. The person she's asking to run the network isn't a changed Frons, it's a different person altogether. It's like the old 12-step phrase: Your best thinking got you here. But it was a good vent.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by marceline

Bob Guza was a decent writer when under management from a strong competent EP. I don't agree with leaving him to his own designs. He'd make GH 100 percent mob.

I disagree and also agree with you here.

Disagree:

Bob Guza is not a decent writer. Wendy Riche and Jill Farren Phelps are both strong EP's. Guza and Riche did not get along and that was obvious. When she left and Guza was made head writer again in 2002, it was more, more mob and that's what Frons loves. Guza runs a muck on that set and does whatever he wants. Had there been no Frons and full control to JFP with a strong writing team, GH would be a millions times better.

Agree:

Leaving him to his own designs would definitely be more destructive, but he has like 99.8% control over what we see. He's head writer and consulting producer. Guza and Frons are their own worst enemies. They are the cancer to GH.

There is an online belief that widely shared that Phelps has no or little input in GH. Well, I do not believe it. The GH actors talk about consulting with her about stories. They would not waste their time if they felt she was powerless. She may not have as much control as at her previous soaps, but she has some power and is responsible for some of what we see on the screen.

While I am at it, let me also share my very unpopular opinion that while Frons guided by market research insists on specific actors being featured more than others and may toss some stories, it is the headwriters who are primarily responsible for how the stories play out on our screens. They pitch the stories and they write the stories that are approved. It is their responsibility to check the scripts to catch inconsistencies from day to day and with the history of the show or hire someone to do so.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Ann_SS

There is an online belief that widely shared that Phelps has no or little input in GH. Well, I do not believe it. The GH actors talk about consulting with her about stories. They would not waste their time if they felt she was powerless. She may not have as much control as at her previous soaps, but she has some power and is responsible for some of what we see on the screen.

While I am at it, let me also share my very unpopular opinion that while Frons guided by market research insists on specific actors being featured more than others and may toss some stories, it is the headwriters who are primarily responsible for how the stories play out on our screens. They pitch the stories and they write the stories that are approved. It is their responsibility to check the scripts to catch inconsistencies from day to day and with the history of the show or hire someone to do so.

Yeah I don't buy that JFP has no power for the reason you stated. I've heard actors on the show comment about talking to her about their character and storylines, meetings with she and Guza to discuss long term storyline plans, etc.. She may not have the power she had on previous shows, but I also believe she has more power than the online community believes.

I also am not sure Frons is the entire issue. No I don't agree with his turning all his soaps into couples only focused shows and his infatuation with the younger audience, that's all on him, but I also watch OLTL and AMC and while not perfect, OLTL in particular at least makes an attempt to manufacture stories surrounding their couples and does actually better integrate their vets into the show. I honestly fear that GH would be much worse if Guza was left to his own designs. And there was a day when Guza was actually not a bad writer. I think he's just stale and played out on GH and has been for the last several years.Brian Frons doesn't write teh show does he? Most storylines can be made halfway interesting no matter how ridiculous if given decent writing. Bottom line, fresh blood is needed to restore the creative juices in that show or at a minimum, a co headwriter or story consultant.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by JaneAusten

But just because actors consult JFP doesn't mean she holds the key to GH. Students consult a guidance counselor in school or an academic advisor in college, but they are not the dean of the college or the President of the University. Frons holds the key to the castle and he can designate who does what and says what.

For instance, it is my opinion that Guza pens what we see. Frons approves it. Jill and Mary O'Leary execute it.

Actor's don't talk to Frons about storyline. Guza probably doesn't want to be bothered. So actor's then direct their questions to JFP. Do I believe she is present at writer's meetings and teleconferences, etc, YES. Do I believe she gives input? YES. But I do not for one second believe she comes up with the stuff we see. That's Guza. Then Frons approves it and when they are scratching their heads and saying "hmm... maybe we can change this, let's see what Jill thinks" then JFP comes into play.

At the Daytime Emmy's in 1999, GH won for Outstanding Drama Series. Wendey Riche when on to praise JHC in her acceptance speech as she said JHC was what kept their GH family together. She was always there for the cast and crew for help and questions, etc. JHC was not executive producer or head writer, just a supervising producer or something of that nature. Again, she wasn't in charge, but people went to her for stuff. JFP may have the title, but she isn't fully in charge, I don't care what anyone says. Get rid of Guza and Frons and let's see Jill in action.

A lot of corporations have rehired their former CEO's over the years as consultants to basically tell the current CEO's how to run the company without destroying. Again, they aren't in charge, but are looked to for advice. Jill knows her stuff, it would be foolish for her actor's to not go to her for questions and support.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by CSF

I see your point. I know JFP has done some great things in the past, but she's also had some stinkers. I don't think putting her in charge is the answer.

If ABC were serious about wanting positive change for GH, they should fire the lot of them and bring in an EP and HW with a proven track record and no predefined biases, just a love for the genre and show.

I don't find myself agreeing with what Sarah Bibel said. Bob Guza was a decent writer when under management from a strong competent EP. I don't agree with leaving him to his own designs. He'd make GH 100 percent mob.

I think the path to GH's ruination started ramping up when he returned in 1998. That's when the Quartermaines were fully turned into Jason's foils, when AJ was butchered, when Luke and Laura were split up and Lucky was separated from the family (first with the rape reveal, then JJ's departure, then when Jacob Young appeared, he barely interacted with his parents), when the show was fully surrendered to mob worship. There were so many mob shootouts in glorified slow motion, and over a year spent with Jason as the perfect father to Michael, AJ as the evil father who couldn't hold his own son without Michael bursting into tears, Robin turned into a mob moll, then when Kimberly McCullough chose to leave the show, turned into a bitter pariah who spilled the beans to AJ.

CSF

The bottom line is, is that I don't see her producing a show that is a pile of sh!t when she has full control. GL under her was phenomenal, minus the death of Maureen Bauer.

GL was phenomenal as long as Nancy Curlee was around. After she left, GL 1994-mid 1995 (when JFP was pushed to AW) was mostly confusing, half-told stories, most of them hogged by Jill's friends from other soaps. Then at OLTL, she turned the show into a nightmare populated by all her friends. She tried the same at GH for her first 6 months or a year until Guza was dumped on her.

Guza and JFP both seem like consummate show killers to me, as they like to destroy anything they did not create. They have managed to do to GH what many would have never imagined. And Frons either doesn't care or wants the show to die.

GL was phenomenal as long as Nancy Curlee was around. After she left, GL 1994-mid 1995 (when JFP was pushed to AW) was mostly confusing, half-told stories, most of them hogged by Jill's friends from other soaps. Then at OLTL, she turned the show into a nightmare populated by all her friends. She tried the same at GH for her first 6 months or a year until Guza was dumped on her.

I agree, pair Jill with a brilliant HW like Nancy Curlee, and you'll get fantastic, history-making results. But pair Jill with Margaret DePriest, Megan McTavish, and Bob Guza - and you'll get nothing but a catastrophe.

I've always defended Jill's talent. I think she's a brilliant technical director and producer, but she tends to work best when she's paired with a HW that's the complete opposite of what she stands for, like Curlee, someone to balance her tendencies out and let Jill do what she does best - produce the damn show.

Yeah I don't buy that JFP has no power for the reason you stated. I've heard actors on the show comment about talking to her about their character and storylines, meetings with she and Guza to discuss long term storyline plans, etc.. She may not have the power she had on previous shows, but I also believe she has more power than the online community believes.

I also am not sure Frons is the entire issue. No I don't agree with his turning all his soaps into couples only focused shows and his infatuation with the younger audience, that's all on him, but I also watch OLTL and AMC and while not perfect, OLTL in particular at least makes an attempt to manufacture stories surrounding their couples and does actually better integrate their vets into the show. I honestly fear that GH would be much worse if Guza was left to his own designs. And there was a day when Guza was actually not a bad writer. I think he's just stale and played out on GH and has been for the last several years.Brian Frons doesn't write teh show does he? Most storylines can be made halfway interesting no matter how ridiculous if given decent writing. Bottom line, fresh blood is needed to restore the creative juices in that show or at a minimum, a co headwriter or story consultant.

Brian Frons is the story consultant for GH.

I agree, pair Jill with a brilliant HW like Nancy Curlee, and you'll get fantastic, history-making results. But pair Jill with Margaret DePriest, Megan McTavish, and Bob Guza - and you'll get nothing but a catastrophe.

I've always defended Jill's talent. I think she's a brilliant technical director and producer, but she tends to work best when she's paired with a HW that's the complete opposite of what she stands for, like Curlee, someone to balance her tendencies out and let Jill do what she does best - produce the damn show.

That's the point I was trying to make. When JFP is paired with a strong and stable HW or HW team, her shows are great. The writer's write and Jill produces.

I think the path to GH's ruination started ramping up when he returned in 1998. That's when the Quartermaines were fully turned into Jason's foils, when AJ was butchered, when Luke and Laura were split up and Lucky was separated from the family (first with the rape reveal, then JJ's departure, then when Jacob Young appeared, he barely interacted with his parents), when the show was fully surrendered to mob worship. There were so many mob shootouts in glorified slow motion, and over a year spent with Jason as the perfect father to Michael, AJ as the evil father who couldn't hold his own son without Michael bursting into tears, Robin turned into a mob moll, then when Kimberly McCullough chose to leave the show, turned into a bitter pariah who spilled the beans to AJ.

GL was phenomenal as long as Nancy Curlee was around. After she left, GL 1994-mid 1995 (when JFP was pushed to AW) was mostly confusing, half-told stories, most of them hogged by Jill's friends from other soaps. Then at OLTL, she turned the show into a nightmare populated by all her friends. She tried the same at GH for her first 6 months or a year until Guza was dumped on her.

Guza and JFP both seem like consummate show killers to me, as they like to destroy anything they did not create. They have managed to do to GH what many would have never imagined. And Frons either doesn't care or wants the show to die.

Carl, I agree with you about GH's demise in the late 90s. From my understanding's Guza and Riche did not get along at all and I think that led to a lot of conflict.

I don't think Jill would be great on her own. I think that if she has a strong and stable HW, the show she produces will be great, like GL pre 1994.

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by CSF

I think the path to GH's ruination started ramping up when he returned in 1998. That's when the Quartermaines were fully turned into Jason's foils, when AJ was butchered, when Luke and Laura were split up and Lucky was separated from the family (first with the rape reveal, then JJ's departure, then when Jacob Young appeared, he barely interacted with his parents), when the show was fully surrendered to mob worship. There were so many mob shootouts in glorified slow motion, and over a year spent with Jason as the perfect father to Michael, AJ as the evil father who couldn't hold his own son without Michael bursting into tears, Robin turned into a mob moll, then when Kimberly McCullough chose to leave the show, turned into a bitter pariah who spilled the beans to AJ.

Thank goodness someone remembers the hell that GH was in the 1990s under Guza. Bibel is so full it. I wanted to scream when she was pimping Guza.

GL was phenomenal as long as Nancy Curlee was around. After she left, GL 1994-mid 1995 (when JFP was pushed to AW) was mostly confusing, half-told stories, most of them hogged by Jill's friends from other soaps. Then at OLTL, she turned the show into a nightmare populated by all her friends. She tried the same at GH for her first 6 months or a year until Guza was dumped on her.

Guza and JFP both seem like consummate show killers to me, as they like to destroy anything they did not create. They have managed to do to GH what many would have never imagined. And Frons either doesn't care or wants the show to die.

With a couple exceptions, JFP has been a nightmare as a EP. I'll never forget the nightmare that she brought to OLTL. Those freaking Rappaports, all Jill's friends, the deaths, and the darkness. She helped drive OLTL into the ground. I don't want Phelps or Guza given any more power on the show. GH would be a million times worse. They both need to go or the status quo remain with a talented consultant/co-headwriter brought in.

What I found most interesting about the Curlee interview, she talks about interference from network executives. Yet she was able to put out a quality product at GL. Blaming Frons, the network has been a cop out for online soap fans. If the EP and headwriter have talent and vision with hard work, they should be able to make lemonade from lemons.

There is an online belief that widely shared that Phelps has no or little input in GH. Well, I do not believe it. The GH actors talk about consulting with her about stories. They would not waste their time if they felt she was powerless. She may not have as much control as at her previous soaps, but she has some power and is responsible for some of what we see on the screen.

While I am at it, let me also share my very unpopular opinion that while Frons guided by market research insists on specific actors being featured more than others and may toss some stories, it is the headwriters who are primarily responsible for how the stories play out on our screens. They pitch the stories and they write the stories that are approved. It is their responsibility to check the scripts to catch inconsistencies from day to day and with the history of the show or hire someone to do so.

I read once Jr hands over his approved by Frons outline to

"breakdown (then passed on to "script writers" ) he's done....don't know if its true just I read it online some say he never comes to the set and doesn't watch the show imo that's like a baker not tasting his cake...

I also agree with QUOTE (CarlD2 @ May 1 2009, 02:01 PM)

I think the path to GH's ruination started ramping up when he returned in 1998

That's when it started for me...also the Carly / Carly Michael storyline that never ended with my favs....

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Cyberologist

Thank goodness someone remembers the hell that GH was in the 1990s under Guza. Bibel is so full it. I wanted to scream when she was pimping Guza.

With a couple exceptions, JFP has been a nightmare as a EP. I'll never forget the nightmare that she brought to OLTL. Those freaking Rappaports, all Jill's friends, the deaths, and the darkness. She helped drive OLTL into the ground. I don't want Phelps or Guza given any more power on the show. GH would be a million times worse. They both need to go or the status quo remain with a talented consultant/co-headwriter brought in.

What I found most interesting about the Curlee interview, she talks about interference from network executives. Yet she was able to put out a quality product at GL. Blaming Frons, the network has been a cop out for online soap fans. If the EP and headwriter have talent and vision with hard work, they should be able to make lemonade from lemons.

I listen to a DTC podcast awhile back and one of the host said she killed Another World listening to the "Focus Groups"

Also I read she alledgely doesn't like Genie Francis

What does an Exec Producer do?

Edited May 1, 200916 yr by Cyberologist

I find it funny that ATWT is ranked #4 in Total Viewers and it only has one more year on the air. Yet, shows like OLTL, AMC and GH are safe with no word of cancellation in sight.

does any know when dailies will come out....Thanks