The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

 

Oh, absolutely (and the poor, and the disabled...unless they're rich and disabled). But Rubio is someone they can sell as above it all, even though he isn't. He's been virulently anti-gay and misogynist his entire career, he's made clear his hatred for the poor his entire career, but it doesn't matter, because the media can still spin him as moderate, and because he looks nonthreatening (unlike melting face Ted Cruz), people lap it up. 

 

I imagine Rubio will shoot up in NH as he will now be the consensus candidate for those who aren't with Cruz. Trump could still have a shot, of course, but I feel like the air has been let out of the balloon. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by DRW50

[Juliajms]

About the time Rubio said a 10 year old rape victim shouldn't be allowed an abortion, he became as extreme as Cruz in my book. Rubio doesn't give me the creeps the way Cruz does, but that just makes him all the more dangerous.

 

I'm pretty please that Carly Fiorina is a non entity. She deserves all the dust she's being paid right now.

[DRW50]

 

She's a loser. If she should have won any race it was her 2010 Senate race, a big year for the GOP. She didn't even make it a contest in the end. I first heard of her when she caused problems for McCain as a 2008 TV flak and she was basically demoted. The only reason she got some notice this time around was because of her gender (which Republicans claim to hate when Democrats do it). Her constant digs at Hillary Clinton's marriage in her last debates were among the most pathetic moments I can remember in politics. Petty as hell, and hypocritical, given her own trashy history. But I'm sure it will get the speaking gigs lined up, and maybe someone can hire her to destroy another company.

 

One of Boxer's ads (those were some good ads...):

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by DRW50

[quartermainefan]

He sucks.  Why is he against opening relations with Cuba?  No one knows other than Obama is the one who opened them.  We can talk to the soviet union for 70 years, we can negotiate with North Korea, but we can't talk to powerless little Cuba who can't hurt a fly?   Isn't this guy Cuban?  Doesn't he want to see Starbucks and McDonalds slowly insinuate themselves into Havana and corrupt their hermetically sealed communist environment?   What did 50 years of sanctions accomplish?

 

Then there is his immigration flip floppery.  Then there is his abortion zealotry.  Then there is his naive warmongering.  He looks 12, who is he going to impress on the world stage?  He is also an awkward speaker with his desperate water gulping.   Yes, I'd sooner this guy than Cruz, but I would take psycho Trump before either.  At least he doesn't believe that Jesus BS these two spout nonstop.   I love this is the year of the New Yorker, and between Trump, Hillary and Bernie it is time for some New York values and these fundies and gun toting hicks can hit the road on their way to their next abortion clinic bombing or gun massacre.

[DramatistDreamer]

@quartermainefan, Rubio is trying to curry favor with the 'old guard' of Cuban expatriates who are staunchly anti-Castro and pro-blockade, even past the point of it making sense.  

Many young Cuban Americans are in favor of opening diplomatic relations between the U.S. and Cuba and putting an end to the blockade because it has not worked.  Many of the 'old guard' expatriates will not be satisfied until Cuba is (re)made in the way they want it to be re(made).  I used to have relatives who lived/worked and went to medical school in Cuba and I know from conversations that the young people in Cuba, while they don't really care for Castro, they also fear that the ex-patriates from the U.S. will try to come in and take over the country and make it into a Miami-satellite.  And while they want more personal freedoms (which are currently happening very very slowly), they don't want to lose certain things like their education and health systems or what they refer to as their sense of Cubanísmo.

But in short, I think that many of the ex-patriates want things all their way or no-way at all.  By the way, many people would have you believe that every Cuban migrated to the U.S. to get away from Castro, but I know people whose relatives left while Batista was still in power.  Batista, that was backed by the U.S., was utterly corrupt, and while it was profitable for many U.S. businessmen, a select group of wealthy Cubans and some U.S. mobsters, the average Cuban felt humiliation at how they felt they were being treated.  Had Batista governed with a modicum of integrity, Castro would never have been able to role into the city from the countryside- there would be no Castro as president.

[marceline]

 

Thanks for that explanation. I have to admit that the politics re: Cuba aren't something I've paid a lot of attention to so I've found the conversation around this situation confusing.

Edited February 2, 2016 by marceline

[DramatistDreamer]

You're welcome, @marceline.  I must admit to being a bit embarrassed by that typo though.  Roll, not role.  In my defense though, I was headed out and away from my desk when I was typing this.  The only thing I didn't mention though, is that many younger Cuban Americans, despite the vast majority believing the embargo needs to be done away with, many feel a bit conflicted with having diverging views than their parents.  I once had a conversation with a guy whose parents are Cuban and he ddn't really know why the embargo was still in place but he felt that he had to respect the fact that his parents were vehemently anti-Castro and didn't want to be in disagreement with them, so he openly expressed ambivalence about the entire situation.  

I'm glad I helped clarify a bit.  

[quartermainefan]

I actually play a board game about the cuban revolution.  I do remember when Castro let all his prisons and asylums out and they flooded Miami Beach with people nobody would want.   That was bad and Miami went downhill before South Beach was created.   In any case, Rubio just comes across to me as this complete fake who is incapable of discussing policy honestly because he is always angling for how it will appeal to his tea party followers.   And it is downright bizarre that suddenly Rubio is considered part of the establishment.   He is too far on the fringe to be mainstream.  Mainstream republican yes, but that is because the nutcases have moved that party so far from reason.   It isn't even a left/right thing anymore when it comes to republicans:  they're just nuts.

[Soapsuds]

Not even his smile? That give me the creeps last night….LOL…..just look at his smile…looks very creepy….

Hmmm..interesting how his speech said the opposite…..I kept rolling my eyes every time he brought up a biblical scripture …..it appears many others were annoyed by it in his speech and knew it was used for show only.

[DRW50]

While I agree with Bill, I'm not sure why he is the messenger for the "Bernie is no Obama" when at this time in 2008 he was burning his wife's campaign to the ground by dismissing Obama as a "fairy tale" and saying he was just like Jesse Jackson.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/bill-clinton-bernie-sanders-no-obama-n509926

[DramatistDreamer]

I'm not sure the campaign knows best how to utilize Bill.  The media is no better.  One day, I read an article praising Bill for a new understated style where he puts the focus on Hillary and apparently away from himself.  The day after next, I read an article that claims that Bill is too understated and seems to be holding back.  No one wants to admit that Bill was very effective when he related policy to the public by using stories and anecdotes that personalized facts and figures, he made what seemed to be impersonal very personal.  He's probably been instructed to tamp down on all that.  And Bill became very effective at going into attack mode, especially the years when he went up against Republican opposition but he has to check his instincts to go on the offensive and try to land the first political punches or else, we get statements like the one he made in 2008 (the fairy tale remarks).

Hillary needs someone who can be fiery and energize her followers and undecided voters but it can't really be Bill and when Hillary tries to do it, it often comes out forced or just plain shouty.

 

Bill is in kind of a weird and unprecedented position.  Has there ever been a case where a former President of the U.S. is campaigning on behalf of his wife's presidential bid?  How does Bill be the campaigner that people expect, the campaigner he was known for during his '92 campaign, while not taking the focus from Hillary?  Seems like they have yet to find the right balance.  And judging from the remarks in the media, no one really knows how to effectively do this.

Edited February 3, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

So glad Hillary officially won! 

[quartermainefan]

Maybe Bob Dole campaigned on behalf of Libby, but there aren't too many husband and wife teams.   It does give Hillary an advantage because with them it is always two against one.   I think though that makes up for the media obsession in trying to bring down the Clintons.  Bill should just go all out, although his voice is a little weak these days.  He makes up for her weaknesses and they've never denied it is by one Clinton get one free.

[GMac]

 

It's taken me quite a long time to come around to the fact and admit that I am atheist.

Why?  I was raised in a Congregational church since I was in preschool, then voluntarily went to a Southern Baptist church as a teenager in an attempt to be "saved from the gay demon".  I was naive, brought up in small town North Florida/South Georgia.  Anyway, I thought this article was interesting.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/02/02/meet-the-atheist-who-quizzes-presidential-candidates-about-their-faith/

 

I can't stand Marco, but at least he's willing to discuss atheism apparently without prejudice (shocker).  I wasn't surprised at all by Bernie's reported reaction and the man is winning me over a little more each day.

 

[marceline]

My background is in the Unity church but I have no problem with atheism. It makes perfect sense. I'm just not ready to give up the part of myself that believes in miracles but that's a personal thing. That said, I fervently wish our society, and especially our politics, could mature to the point where we stopped looking at religiosity as a necessary quality. I'm not talking about personal faith. I'm referring to the theatre of religion. To me it's the difference between Jimmy Carter and Ted Cruz. Jimmy Carter uses his faith to build houses and eradicate the guinea worm while Ted Cruz goes to Flint and gives bottled water to anti-abortion groups.

 

On another subject, It's nice to see that we've finally had some folks drop out since Iowa. We've lost O'Malley, Rand Paul and Santorum and yet for some reason Jim Gilmore is still hanging on.