The Politics Thread

[JaneAusten]

While the EO on the ban is scary, there are constitutional grounds I believe for getting it overturned.

 

The one regarding the NSC IMO is scarier

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2017/01/white-house-to-issue-3-new-executive-orders-on-nsc-lobbying-and-isis-234309

[DRW50]

 

I think China is a big concern - it's more that I disagree when talk turns to how they're going to become some sort of lead or bold innovator in things like the environment. It gives them more credit than they deserve. 

 

I think a lot of the war talk is for appearance's sake, but it's definitely something Trump is pushing us toward. And it's quite stupid. What he excels at, sadly.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I don't think the Chinese are interested in innovation or bold leadership, for that matter. I do believe they are interested in besting the United States and being seen as the new axis upon which the world order now spins.

 

Being seen as powerful and influential means a whole lot to them. It was obvious in the display of "soft power" on display in Beijing during the 2008 Olympics.

 

Now that the U.S. under Trump no longer has any moral authority, China is no longer under any perceived obligation to adhere to any rules that the West prescribes, while they can portray themselves as a viable alternative to the U.S. (without those pesky human rights questions to consider).

 

If you look at the TPP, which many people think is a mistake for the U.S. to withdraw from (instead of signing on with the agreement that it be a work in progress that will need shaping/updating similar to the climate accord), China has asserted itself as willing to step into the vacuum left by the U.S. not out of a sense of magnanimity but because China wants to be the biggest trading partner for all of these group of countries, and they'd wield an enormous amount of power (via finance/economy) over their neighbors in the South China Sea especially-- many of whom they are in low-grade fueds with over maritime territory.

 

Trump, with all his bluster about forcing China to adhere to boundaries is looked at as the outsider trying to butt in and impose the U.S. where it doesn't belong.  

This is in sharp contrast to the Obama administration that tried to coax China into being good stewards and good neighbors.

 

None of this has to do with innovation or bold leadership, it has to do with power dynamics and where unchecked power has the ability to go.

 

And if China can convince others, particularly other BRIC countries and its Asian neighbors that they offer more stability than the U.S. run by an ignorant madman, they will look superior in comparison.  Particularly for other Asian countries (that are smaller), they will be the "devil" they all know' rather than the "devil" they don't know' (i.e. Trump).

Edited January 29, 2017 by DramatistDreamer

[Vee]

Massive protests at JFK Airport in New York. Taxi work stoppage. I'm so proud.

[JaneAusten]

I don't know that anyone including me had an belief in China having altruistic motives. It's all about power and upping the United States and showing the world they have some level of stability due to the economic position and "leadership" in areas that are considered progressive.  I agree with the above is that we will no longer be able to exert any influence as our alleged image of as was said above "good stewardship" and being a good neighbor fall off.

 

On a side note I have to laugh at the Americans(mostly people on the left) praising Theresa May and believing she upped Trump. Clearly many people don't know her or her politics.

Edited January 29, 2017 by JaneAusten

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Yeah, I mentioned this on the previous page. As well as the fact that this is the 2nd protest to occur in a major city in as many days (Philadelphia was the other city during the GOP retreat).

[Vee]

[Roman]

I mean damn. the most ignorant POS EVER to be put in that office. 

[Vee]

At this rate I'm not convinced either we or Trump are going to last to March. Something has to give.

[Roman]

I pray to GOD we are not attacked over this. 

[Vee]

We will be, eventually. The only question is if our intelligence apparatus will be in enough condition to prevent it, as they did many under Obama.

 

 

The first person to say these protests will only help Trump gets blocked.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Vee

[NothinButAttitude]

 

 

I pray that we aren't attacked either, but like @Vee has concluded, I think the writing is on the wall. I think it is inevitable. I'm praying it isn't something catastrophic like 9/11 or how we did Japan back in WW2. 

[JaneAusten]

ie: @VEE Protests a waste of time and a distraction ^^Tom Nichols has already been spreading that on twitter. Calling the protests a waste and giving a botched rollout of an EO a win because it makes him look tough. He's assuming if the story was the rollout was botched, any of his base would care one way or the other.

 

 

By the way apparently Secretary Kelly, head of Homeland Security, in charge of enforcing this EO was not involved in crafting it and was handed it to rollout after the fact. Allegedly not happy.

Edited January 29, 2017 by JaneAusten

[Roman]

A federal judge has just granted a stay on the EO. 

[Vee]

Edited January 29, 2017 by Vee