I ain't gonna cry a river, I'm gonna LMAO, I so needed that laugh, thanks. The show has hit it's stride in what? Camp? Hackiness?

Laughter is the best medicine...turn your tv off - OLTL will never satisfy everyone in every way - if it did, it would be illegal.

Amen!

Gigi/Rex keeps the soap going. Yes, they are shoving it down our throats some days but it's about time Rex was turned into an every day character. For too long, he was kept just as Bo's sidekick when JPL was turning the corner from being a pretty boy into a solid soap actor. Farah has proven to be a fresh talent that DAYS wasted and her character was an instant hit. They have undeniable chemistry and right now they're a young power couple that can become a solid cornerstone for this show. Enduring a bit too much of them at this moment, I'll live with considering we got so little of Rex when his character could have been so much more.

Todd/Marty is a different story. None of the Manning family storyline works for me, but then again that's me (and a few others). That said, I think it's a great example of how diverse and intriguing Ron's writing has been. With so many characters, not everyone is going to enjoy every storyline. I don't like the Vegas at all, so I'm not going to get involved in anything that involves the Vega boys. I enjoy Natalie/Jess/Jared/Rex/Gigi/Layla/Brody/Viki/Bo--those are the characters that draw me into storylines. I'm not always going to enjoy their plots either, but at least Ron is giving us something different with each character and not actively involving everyone in everyone else's business but he's still crossing over certain storylines to the betterment of other storylines.

At the moment, there are very few storylines that I like with OLTL so I'm not watching as actively. But that isn't to say that once these end and the consequences of these storylines begin to unravel at the end of the year/beginning of 2009 that I won't be sucked back in.

I'm not going to call him a hack. But, his praises were sung way too soon.

I'm not going to call him a hack. But, his praises were sung way too soon.

How soon is too soon? I gave RC five months before I joined.......the Church.

I'm not one calling for RC's firing, but neither am I watching much. The one emotion I feel most of the time is fatigue. There still is something fundamentally different in the show from the pre-strike months. I'm not going to entirely blame RC -- but there is now little I want to see, and little hope that anything I would want to see will be shown soon.

Viki had a love story going on pre-strike. Now, I don't think she has to always have a frontburner story -- but the way they gave her just enough with Charlie to say they gave her a story, and how quickly they backburnered/halted it seems especially tacky. Watching them stick Mrs. Woods both into the BE story and the 1968 story makes me wonder exactly how much of a future on the show my favorite Nora/HBS has. Lindsay may not even return from prison. Dorian is the only one getting any story at the moment.

Usually, I can at least watch the Todd story going on (and it's not often he doesn't have one). I recognize that this is a contraversial story, and as that, not a bad one. However, I find myself tuning it off. It's not that I'm offended. Fatigue is the word that best describes it. I want to recognise Todd's motivations, and I've read some very eloquent explanations of them: but I shouldn't have to work that hard. And I know it isn't going to end well for Todd...and I'm getting tired of watching him get beat up, whether he deserves it or not. And I've never been a huge Marty fan, although I recognise that they are working to get a thirty/fortysomething heroine.

The teen story is working too hard to be both preachy and teen-relevant that I don't recognise ANY adult voice in the mix. I don't even recognise Starr.

As for Gigi and Rex, a love story might have worked for them, but now that they have this huge promotion with the 1968 love that transcends time, all I can do is roll my eyes. Whoever decided to promote them as a premier couple ought to be shot...but that may not be RC's doing. Whatever it is, the show promises to be Gigi/Rex heavy for the next few weeks.

Viki had a love story going on pre-strike. Now, I don't think she has to always have a frontburner story -- but the way they gave her just enough with Charlie to say they gave her a story, and how quickly they backburnered/halted it seems especially tacky.

I think Ron didn't want to go into a Viki storyline right away because he knew ES' vacation was coming up. I'm sure Viki will be front burner again once ES is back - Viki has to take down Dorian for what she did to Charlie. Ron has proven that he loves to write for ES/Viki.

I'm not going to call him a hack. But, his praises were sung way too soon.

I agree.

The show hasn't been very consistent over the past three months, but who knows how much of that is on him. I'm sure Frons and Valentini are worried that ratings aren't rising, despite MarkH's belief that ratings shouldn't be a major concern.

He needs at least two years to prove himself, I think. However, who knows if he has that long. I still think he would've gone the way of B&E had it not been for the Emmy and initial critical acclaim.

I still think he needs a Co-HW to make some of his campier ideas come off seamlessly, which is doesn't. I get the sense he tries too hard to be "different" with the camp, and it doesn't play off well on-screen.

The fact that some were proclaiming him the next Marland two months into his tenure was vomit inducing. Carlivati might be the best of the bunch right now, but that still isn't saying much. I would never go as far as to say that OLTL this year has been some of the best soap opera I've ever seen, or something innovative, because it's not. The show was entertaining before the strike and up to mid-July, nothing else. However, it lost that consistent entertaining facet to me somewhere in the summer and now it's trying really hard to get it back.

Also, it doesn't help that some of the actors on OLTL are either horrid or extremely lazy. That toppled with crappy scriptwriting and choppy direction makes for a bad combination.

I don't know about on the air but it's definitely too much for a soap.

Soaps used to thrive on controversy. So I don't see why it's too much for a soap to be honest--soaps are actually the one type of show that deal with the most revolting, controversial, shocking subjects.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by YRBB

Oh, what utter crap. You must be fuckin' joking, my dear. Did you bother to watch Hogan Sheffer's last run on a soap opera before Y&R? That show embodied the phrase "corporate interference." I really like Sheffer, I do, but thanks to Corday and NBC he didn't get a single decent, well-thought-out story done for a single favorite, which is more than I can say for Carlivati, who brought Viki out of cold storage. And Sheffer didn't do a thing about it.

I'm sorry to puncture your fantasies of Hogan Sheffer, Macho Top but I'm afraid his recent work does not back that up, especially not compared to RC, who out of the gate, no bullshit, no excuses, gave us story for the veterans and solid writing. Which sadly, Sheffer did not.

Please give me the directions to the hypermasculine Hemingway-esque dimension you have come from.

I never claimed Hogan to be any genius nor do I fantasize about him.

Hogan seems to be doing just fine over at Y&R so maybe NBC wasn't the network for him- there have been countless testimonies about stories he penned that never made it on the air because tptb weren't interested. Hogan has never been anti-veterans. As for the "Cold Storage"- Vikki gets a boyfriend and somehow that constitutes as a story line? Her daughter has DID and she doesn't even notice- I'm so happy Vikki is back in all her wisdom.

If you don't like Sheffer that's fine- but talking to me as if your biases are somehow lesser than mine is backwards- If you've read my other posts you would know that there are plenty of reasons I'm not riding the Carlivati band wagon-

Nothing is more hypermasculine than RC's writing (rapists and victims falling in love)- so maybe I picked it up from watching the show.

So true- but those periods were not combined with the rapid decrease in show ratings- so RC has gotten the **** end of the stick. Malone is a sharp writer and understands that secrets and love can go beyond the basic IQ of "one true loves." I didn't feel as though he was trying to insult my intelligence or change the fabric of the show. But I also don't think RC is trying to shaft me- he just doesn't know me.

Lets be honest-It could just be the look of RC- he looks like a "dude" who wanted to be a writer. There's something wet behind the ears happening in his appearance that doesn't occur when looking at Hogan.(not trying to be shallow) He looks like a writer that wants to get pushed around- either by the fans or the corporates. Nothing about him says- "this is a man that's going to go in that board meeting and fight for a story line that means something to him."----Then you watch the show and see camp and aloof characters and acting- who else to blame but the man writing the show (figuratively speaking). The story lines are the old- and you feel some kid straight out of law school, who probably locks his office door when he goes into work, is playing god with a show you've given 5 hours a week to since you were 5....and that smile....the devil comes in many guises. Dena Higley was no better with that picture on her couch with her dog.

Yeah but Malone didn't set the ratings alight either--OLTL was firmly in the middle of the pack under him (I think often 6th?) From the Soap Encyclopedia. Under Rauch (and the negligible Michael Schnessel--who took over when Peggy O'Shea left and really made OLTL nothing but camp) OLTL was still number 4 in the 89-90 season, and then fell to 6 in the 90-91 season (with Y&R/AMC/GH still at the top). That's when Malone and Gottlieb came in and the show the next year was 7th. Through the rest of their run it held steady at 6th, with a 5th placing in 94-95. Just saying--relatively speaking, OLTL isn't in that much of a diff position under RC (my beloved AMC on the other hand... *cry*).

But no, I don't think the writing is anywhere near the writing of most of Malone/Griffith's first era and am not implying that--just playing Devil's advocate.

HAHA so are you saying that Carlivati's friendly good looks are his downfall? You know Bill Bell was a lawyer before he became a writer right? I get what ya mean though. We need some more stern, unattractive pics of our soap writers. Well except Agnes Nixon--her friendly school marm look makes me warm and fuzzy

I believe that EPs should be held more accountable for sorry shows. We are going to disagree on soaps. I think they should be allowed to be cancelled and replaced with new soaps. The thought that a soap has to drag on for 40 years until it is just bad makes no sense to me. Passions was on 9 years. That is a long time. The only thing NBC did wrong IMO is it did not cancel and replace. Same thing with PC. ABC could have come out with new 30 minute sopa.

What we are seeing right now are bad soaps that are being kept alive on life support only because networks are not willing to let them die and replace them with a new show. No writer on OLTL has been very good for an extended period of time in a decade.

As far as Ron hitting a dip after the BE takeover and the Nash death, that is because he had no story in place after the BE takeover and the Nash death. He killed Nash for no other reason than he want Jared to be his Nash. There was no plan for what should happen next with BE. That is a pretty big blunder.

In his defense, he said all along that he liked campy stories (he didn't call them campy). He said he liked stories of ghosts and time travel. None of this should come as any surprise.

I don't remember him saying when he started he liked time travel stories! He did? He killed Nash off for more story reasons than you say--I'm sur eit was partly to bring Tess back cuz he wanted to write for her--it makes sense with his Summer style and is basically the only thing besides killing Bree that coulda brought Tess back at this point.

As for replacing soaps--in theory I agree with you (though I need to point out that ABC replaced The City with PC when the City was at the time their ONLY soap to have 6 months of ratings slowly but surely *climbing*--if that tells you anything)--but really it makes no sense to cancel most of these long running soaps that aren't currently "working" and hope that a new soap will capture even part of the audience--that hasn't happened since Bold and the Beautiful replaced Capital and before that since Young and the Restless replaced Where the HEart Is. In the current climate it prob will never happen again--I don't really blame the networks for not trying with a new one

....and the most riveting. Tell me a storyline in daytime right now that has more intrigue, rooted in history, edgy, controversial, has build up and has the anticipation of a huge climax (when Marty gets her memory back). I currently watch 7 out of the 8 (GL is the 1 soap I'm not watching) soaps and this is the best storyline in daytime right now. JMO of course.

Umm....are you watching the show right now (I'm gonna guess no)? The outcome of the BE takeover and Nash's death are playing out right now.

No, I'm not watching the show right now, but I keep up enough to tell you without doubt that the outcome of BE takeover and Nash's death are not playing out right now. You must be referring to the Tess story which is nothing but a very lame knock off of a story from 20 years ago with Jean Randolf and also a very lame attempt at redeeming Jared instantly rather than making him earn it. Why don't you tell me what the out come of the BE story is?

Let's be honest, you guys posted a link every time any online columnist or blogger or SOD or SOW kissed Ron's butt during the Saint Ron days. Now, those columnist are critical of Ron the Overrated, but they just don't get it or they are acting in a self-interested fashion.

Since I've been pushed, Ron C is a hack and an overrated hack at that. And since I have been pushed, I'll say I think that his defenders are defending him because it is Ron C and has absolutely nothing to do with his writing. His stories stink. If Dena, Michael Malone, Josh Griffin or Pratt or Guza was writing this crap, I think your reaction would be quite different.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by Jess

Yeah but Malone didn't set the ratings alight either--OLTL was firmly in the middle of the pack under him (I think often 6th?) From the Soap Encyclopedia. Under Rauch (and the negligible Michael Schnessel--who took over when Peggy O'Shea left and really made OLTL nothing but camp) OLTL was still number 4 in the 89-90 season, and then fell to 6 in the 90-91 season (with Y&R/AMC/GH still at the top). That's when Malone and Gottlieb came in and the show the next year was 7th. Through the rest of their run it held steady at 6th, with a 5th placing in 94-95. Just saying--relatively speaking, OLTL isn't in that much of a diff position under RC (my beloved AMC on the other hand... *cry*).

But no, I don't think the writing is anywhere near the writing of most of Malone/Griffith's first era and am not implying that--just playing Devil's advocate.

HAHA so are you saying that Carlivati's friendly good looks are his downfall? You know Bill Bell was a lawyer before he became a writer right? I get what ya mean though. We need some more stern, unattractive pics of our soap writers. Well except Agnes Nixon--her friendly school marm look makes me warm and fuzzy

I see where you're coming from- I can't say the show is not being maintained- but it's not for the fans that were wrapped up in the last 10 years. The fans base wars are over, and much of the relationships established are over without a word.

I dont think Bill Bell and RC are in the same league. I think BB was a bit more in touch with his audience and what they needed from the show. There is a difference between getting what you need and not what you want- because I don't think everyone gets what they want- or should.

I don't think many are watching like they were in the Bill Bell days. It's like we went to the puppet show and we now see the strings. I think in today's times the look of the writer does have some weight. I remember the hype around RC when he first started- he came from nowhere and people looked at that young face and saw something revitalized in the industry- we were tired of seeing the same old farts turning out storyline- and were looking for that next "it" writer. RC didn't disappoint because he had nowhere to go but up after DH was let go. He reestablished a better rotation in story line, and started getting people back to the days when he thought the show was onto something. It's like he's tried to undo the writing he thought the fans hated and didn't realize there was no going back. He scrapped moments in history without even trying- either because it was too painful, he didn't think it was right move for the show, or just wished he could have penned certain scenes. He got caught up in repairing the house and took out the entire upper level. Bill Bell is quite another league. He made some pretty weighty statements went he first took over- giving that smile- telling the fans to trust him, he's one of us. it's weird how fans are all grouped in as one- like we all agree and want the same things.IF RC were Bill Bell, he would have gotten his own show.

As for Malone's first era- I can agree- but those were different times- safer times to take chances- soaps were popping up all over the place and getting canceled if they didn't make the cut. The television watching culture was different and they seemed to have a handle on who they were as writers without the hype. The actors were pretty talented as well- so the story wasn't writing dependent everyday. Even when the story line sucked- I wasn't shrieking over the dialogue. RC seems to be aware of what's going on- which is why he feels comfortable targeting a younger demographic, and rolling out Todd/Marty. Doesn't mean I have to like it- but he knows no one is doing this right now (and for good reason)- he probably feels controversial.(rolling my eyes)

I see where you're coming from- I can't say the show is not being maintained- but it's not for the fans that were wrapped up in the last 10 years. The fans base wars are over, and much of the relationships established are over without a word.

I dont think Bill Bell and RC are in the same league. I think BB was a bit more in touch with his audience and what they needed from the show. There is a difference between getting what you need and not what you want- because I don't think everyone gets what they want- or should.

I don't think many are watching like they were in the Bill Bell days. It's like we went to the puppet show and we now see the strings. I think in today's times the look of the writer does have some weight. I remember the hype around RC when he first started- he came from nowhere and people looked at that young face and saw something revitalized in the industry- we were tired of seeing the same old farts turning out storyline- and were looking for that next "it" writer. RC didn't disappoint because he had nowhere to go but up after DH was let go. He reestablished a better rotation in story line, and started getting people back to the days when he thought the show was onto something. It's like he's tried to undo the writing he thought the fans hated and didn't realize there was no going back. He scrapped moments in history without even trying- either because it was too painful, he didn't think it was right move for the show, or just wished he could have penned certain scenes. He got caught up in repairing the house and took out the entire upper level. Bill Bell is quite another league. He made some pretty weighty statements went he first took over- giving that smile- telling the fans to trust him, he's one of us. it's weird how fans are all grouped in as one- like we all agree and want the same things.IF RC were Bill Bell, he would have gotten his own show.

As for Malone's first era- I can agree- but those were different times- safer times to take chances- soaps were popping up all over the place and getting canceled if they didn't make the cut. The television watching culture was different and they seemed to have a handle on who they were as writers without the hype. The actors were pretty talented as well- so the story wasn't writing dependent everyday. Even when the story line sucked- I wasn't shrieking over the dialogue. RC seems to be aware of what's going on- which is why he feels comfortable targeting a younger demographic, and rolling out Todd/Marty. Doesn't mean I have to like it- but he knows no one is doing this right now (and for good reason)- he probably feels controversial.(rolling my eyes)

I think Bill Bell cared about the audience. RC doesn't. RC thinks he knows more than the audience.

Malone was a very good writer and I think his first year during his second stint was very good. The second year was weird. I think they tried so hard to wrap the show around ME and even Kamar, that something went terribly wrong. I don't blame that on Malone. I do think Malone.

As far as RC, I think the only good thing that could be said about him was he was not Dena. He won an Emmy for a story that really was nothing. He won the Emmy for the two days he brought back people for Asa's funeral. It was very nice to see all those actors, but there was no story.

As far as RC, I think the only good thing that could be said about him was he was not Dena. He won an Emmy for a story that really was nothing. He won the Emmy for the two days he brought back people for Asa's funeral. It was very nice to see all those actors, but there was no story.

Funny, because I thought the very long story resulting from Asa's death took a break with Nash bleeding out on a hospital gurney and is still going on with Clint vs. Dorian.

And sadly, most of both of Malone's two years back on the show sucked. I can say that because I tried to defend it.

there have been countless testimonies about stories he penned that never made it on the air because tptb weren't interested. Hogan has never been anti-veterans.

Shoulda woulda coulda. We can argue about intent and what Hogan meant but unfortunately it doesn't mean anymore than what Malone failed to do last time. I think they're both talented writers but they failed and the shows suffered. Whereas RC picked up the veterans and used them, well in many people's opinions. End of story. One is wishful thinking, the other is hard results.

Edited September 24, 200817 yr by Vee