Members DavidEvanSmith Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 I don't understand all the ratings talk. MarkH has shown that ratings have been relatively stable. More than most soaps. If you're looking for them to JUMP, they won't... none are. All these (stable) ratings mean is that for every viewer that is tuning OUT of OLTL for not enjoying it, there are just as many fans either staying tuned in or BECOMING fans to balance out whoever is not watching anymore. So in my book, Carlivati is doing fine for ratings. Removing the ratings from the KAnder/Toups discussion, it really is one person enjoying it, and one person not. So oh well. I love this post from rhinohide: That, I think, should be the spirit of the message board. Not this one, all message boards. As for Todd/Marty, I love what DrewH outlined: The slow build makes this story work for me, and the only reason it's WORKING for me, and many others from what I read, is that we have faith that it will come to a conclusion, a payoff, that somewhere involves Todd losing everything. From the people I see hating it, ZendallFan, etc, they say that DON'T have faith it will end that way. So it's really all about faith. Faith the writer won't fail you in the end. If you don't have faith, I consider that not Carlivati's fault, but the genre's fault, for failing you too many times, under the pens of too many writers. For me, Carlivati's work has satisfied me MORE than failed me, so that's why I don't crucify him. The soap genre allows for nuances, smaller details, subtleties, that will strengthen the ultimate payoff. I remember the awkwardness of Todd waking up next to Marty the night of the storm when she didn't want to be in the room alone. I remember the several times that Cole was in the house and had no idea that his mother was alive and upstairs. All of those details will heighten the drama WHEN Marty gets her memory back and realizes the monstrosity of Todd's actions. Carlivati isn't blind to these things when he HAS Soap Opera Digest doing interviews and articles with him asking "how far will they go?" and telling him about the OLTL fans who don't like the direction of the story. His responses only explain WHY they are doing the story, not telling us that Todd/Marty are being groomed as supercouple of the future. He's not saying the end result because he wants people tuning in for the climax, he wants people unsure. But I have faith that the climax will satisfy me in SOME kind of way. And I can say that I have never felt more connected and INVESTED in OLTL storylines since the early/mid 90s. It seems a lot of the other dissatisfied OLTL fans keep talking about how Carlivati was praised too soon as the second coming, etc, but THAT shouldn't be informing your determination to make us realize we're wrong for enjoying the stories we are right now. I am enjoying right now, overall, but I certainly wasn't one comparing Carlivati to Douglas Marland, or whoever else, because I focus on what this ONE person is doing at this ONE soap, RIGHT NOW. Every writer is different, has different consistency of talent, for different lengths of times, in combination with different soap canvases and behind-the-scenes regimes, so comparing this one to that one is like apples and oranges to me. I also said I'm not glued to the show like I was for BE takeover and Nash's death. But it has to do with many reasons... where the focus is (more on Rex/Gigi than the Buchanans, Viki/Charlie, Dorian like it was during the BE Takeover story), current story direction (Brody losing it, when there could have been so much more), Fall Promos (editing a caption about "complicated love" in with a shot of Todd and Marty)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members miajere Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 I think the last 10 years of OLTL have encouraged people to believe that tptb cater to particular interest. They've catered to couples, story lines, and characters that were said to be popular and in the fans minds- they have always appeared interested in giving the fans what they want, and have used fan response to pen many stories, and usher out actors. IN many ways Frons has "trained" viewers into believing that if they (majority) write letters and campaign for couples in polls, they will receive a "treat". In deterring from that climate I think the show has left many unsettled and this is the result. Tptb lack of commitment to characters , story lines, and romance in the past pissed many of us off- and now that I see the so called majority not trumping tptb, it's rather confusing. I feel, as of late, I'm in for another Bron Frons' training in "are you not entertained"(picturing Russell Crowe in Gladiator). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 Mercy! Someone gets it! Can I say that I love this post. so perfect!!! Pure perfection . A measured response, positive and negatives, taking into account multiple perspectives, AND analyzing where the distrust comes from. I'm gonna frame this one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marceline Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 I feel like there's no point in getting rid of him now. He's done his damage. This Todd/Marty thing has actually "broken" the show for me in a way that I can't ever see myself returning. Ron pissed all over the 20 years I watched the show. I used to say I could go back to watching if certain things happened but, there's no point. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted September 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 Yeah Carlivati is doing fine if you're comparing OLTL to other show's, fact is he hasn't done diddly squat for ratings Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 *cough*Latham*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members R Sinclair Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 This is the most ridiculous topic I have ever... What exactly is the point, again? To rally for Ron Carlivati's firing... because, why? He had an off summer? Or to just basically knight RC as the last "hack" in the line of hacks who will eventually be accused of being ghost written as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members detroitpiston Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 Did you not read any of MarkH's or DavidEvanSmiths posts? Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marceline Posted September 25, 2008 Members Share Posted September 25, 2008 And this is one of the most closed minded posts I've ever seen. If you like his work, bravo for you but people who don't have every right to express that. Suck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members asa Posted September 26, 2008 Members Share Posted September 26, 2008 Wait, Tea's returning!? Seriously? If so, color me impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted September 26, 2008 Members Share Posted September 26, 2008 Oh my god... How embarassing. No keep my second least fave AMC writer ever away from all soaps (it was improved when Cascio came back). Maybe you liked it because you don't like AMC regularly--because it was the lest Pine Valley AMC has ever been IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted September 26, 2008 Members Share Posted September 26, 2008 David well said--I admit i've been hard on OLTL the past while--but that's why I come to a site like this--to complain about what i don't like, praise what I do, to read other opiniosn and to *discuss*. I do agree with you actually that--all things considered, this is the most connected to OLTL I've felt since 1995 probably--something I didn't realize (there have been brief periods I've prefered--the first month the Labines returned, the Storm of Change under Griffith, etc but nothing lasting more than a few months). I never quite get how these threads become so personal--it's easy to argue these things, or should be, without making them about "well your opinion sucks", yet that's something I know I can be guilty of too. Anyway I think there are a few obvious things--even the people clamoring for his firing don't seem to have AY ideas about who they'd want to replace him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members R Sinclair Posted September 26, 2008 Members Share Posted September 26, 2008 Excuse you, but it is NOT closed minded. First of all, I didn't enjoy his drawn out 1968 storyline, but the heart was there and the best of intentions was there. What's closed minded is "Oooh, I don't like this storyline so, guess what -- HE'S A HACK!" This man has attempted to bring a freshness to a show that has been stale for the last decade. Okay, so he failed. Not every single storyline comes out the way it was pitched -- or at least the way it was pictured when it was pitched. The whole Marty/Todd storyline is disturbing, true, but it's at least a way to mine story from two characters who are steeped in history. And, for the last damned time, I am sick and tired... SICK AND TIRED... of these people getting pissy all because their opinions are disagreed with. YOU suck it up. Look into who you are as a so-called fan of the show and the genre in general and find out why you are so quick to piss and moan about why this person is supposed to be called a HACK (at the words of one of the most biased soap viewers on this board who wouldn't know what the word "impartial" means if it bit them in the face, ass and any other part of the anatomy) all because his attempt at doing something different didn't pan out. OLTL has been in a rather questionable state for the last several years. When a writer is trying to make his or her show stand out and be relevant, there are going to be hits and misses. I am not saying Ron Carlivati's storytelling is anywhere near historic. I don't think he's the savior of soaps. But I do think, however, that it is absolutely ridiculous to consider someone who was brought on staff and has been a writer through several regimes over the last 11 years a "hack." He has an understanding of these characters. He has been through a decade of story with these characters. He was tutored, if you will, under Claire Labine. Is she a hack because she taught a hack? Come the hell on. Quit bitching and complaining about someone being a hack the minute there's a lag in story. You want to talk about sucking things up? Suck up 1968 and Mendorra. It's over and done with. As for the Marty/Todd storyline -- IT HASN'T BEEN RESOLVED YET! How the HELL can anybody determine exactly how horrible this story is until it's over and done with? We have not yet seen the payoff. We have not yet seen how ANY of the characters involved will react. I waded through eight pages of this thread and saw nothing that swayed me to think that this show needs to be given up on and Ron Carlivati needs to be called a hack. I stand in my opinion that this is just a thread developed because RC's story has pissed someone off, and now we have to be subjected to "hack, hack, hack, fire the hack" crap -- yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kstaff Posted September 26, 2008 Members Share Posted September 26, 2008 I don't post here very much anymore, but I say you have very bluntly put into words what I was thinking! Yes, disgruntled viewers have the right to express what's bugging them, but to call for the firing of a writer this quickly? Over a story that hasn't been resolved because the writer DARES to take a chance? I enjoy OLTL, even if some of this stuff squinks me out, because it's DIFFERENT than what Days has been offering. I will admit, I haven't gotten into the other soaps, but dang. I will admit that I'm soured on "Fire him! Fire him!" because, shoot, I hear that on Days boards every time someone gets pissed off. Man, if everyone got fired for having down slumps, the job market would be in a heck of a lot worse shape than it is now. More to the point: what's the morale backstage? How do the actors feel? Is ES going to take a stand against RC like she did DH? Maybe THEN would be the time to consider firing him, but ya know...I haven't seen her do that just yet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted September 26, 2008 Members Share Posted September 26, 2008 The actors all seem to really like him. Or did last I heard anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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