Knots Landing

[DRW50]

I like your ideas. My choices for who to write out were based on what the show did with the characters after that time that Julie Harris and Constance McCashin were let go, not based on their potential. Did Val ever really have any good stories after the baby saga? Did Olivia have any worth after the drug use/Peter murder stories?

One thing I would add is a story that would play up a lot of scenes between Laura and Valene. It always annoyed me that the bond between them was so underexplored, especially since I thought they were more natural together than Karen/Valene.

[Khan]

I didn't like those stories for Anne either, but I think they were written to compensate for the fact that Michelle Phillips just wasn't as strong as Donna Mills had been in corporate-centric stories.

[Khan]

On the other hand, Carl, if Lilimae had remained a grifter, never repentant for any of her misdeeds, both past and present, I think the audience would've become tired of her much sooner. Of course, Julie Harris is like Beverlee McKinsey: she can play the hell out of anything and keep you glued to the set, no matter what. So who knows?

Correct.

Part of me wishes David Jacobs had been more open-minded about Joshua's place on the show. For one thing, I think Alec Baldwin would have stayed much longer with it (if only for the opportunity to continue working with Julie Harris, if nothing else) and become an even bigger asset to KNOTS overall. More importantly, even if the writers had played out his arc as planned, that would have set the stage for an electrifying "redemption arc," something the primetime soaps never seemed to want to do. Joshua never would have had to become a total saint, especially w/ the way Baldwin played him; but I feel like he could've been KNOTS' answer to GUIDING LIGHT's Roger Thorpe.

[Khan]

Let's put it this way: they could have, had more creative people been in charge. I loved the Lechowicks' work, but I also believe they are better at plot-driven material than character-driven material.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Khan

[Khan]

You know, I would have loved to have seen what happens when Val's biological father re-enters the fray. Who is he? Where did he come from? What has he been up to? How does all that affect his relationships w/ Gary, Lilimae and Val, as well as their relationships with each other?

In keeping with KNOTS' tradition of hiring trained stage actors, too, I might have cast someone like Jason Robards or E.G. Marshall to have played that part.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Khan

[DRW50]

I guess I saw Lillimae as being better in a recurring capacity, popping up in and out of stories, with a lot of ambiguity. Did she really feel bad, or was she looking for a place to stay, someone to help her through, etc. Did she resent Valene for the life she never had - did she think, "If I'd been pregnant by an oil heir I wouldn't have screwed up the way Val did?" What if Abby used Lillimae in schemes against Gary/Val? What if Lillimae played Valene and Abby against each other and preyed on Abby's own mixed feelings about her mother?

If they did have the reformed Lillimae, then, instead of writing her out in 1987, I would have done a story where Ginger returned, 8 months pregnant, after calling Val, feeling she had nowhere else to go. Kenny had told Ginger his career meant he didn't have time or money for another baby, and he had little interest in the child they did have. He told Ginger to have an abortion or clear out. Ginger left him.

After having the baby, Ginger develops post-partum depression, and struggles to separate this baby with the unborn child her mother made her abort. Lillimae takes care of the child, and works hard to help Ginger reunite with her baby. Valene tries to understand, but resents this - why didn't Lillimae work this hard to help her find Lucy? Why did Lillimae turn her away?

Karen's brother visits, and helps Ginger get back on her feet. He is still in love with her, and Ginger falls in love with him. Kenny returns and says he regrets the way he acted. He wants a second chance. Ginger says if he ever loved her, he will give her a divorce. Kenny reluctantly agrees. After they marry, Ginger and Karen's brother move away to start a new life. Ginger tells everyone she will stay in contact, but Lillimae asks her not to - it hurts too much.

After this I would have Lucy arrive in Knots Landing and be ashamed of Lillimae, but also see something of herself in her grandmother.

[DRW50]

I thought they should have had Val's father as either a lot older than Lillimae, or a fair amount younger. Did we ever hear anything about her father?

[Chris B]

I just completed the 6th season and it's so strange how my opinion of my favorite show keeps changing! The first episode I ever saw was the season six finale, so I've always been more familiar with the later years since I've seen them more. Re-watching I just fell in love with season four, which I've always enjoyed, but never knew to be as brilliant as it actually is. It's also the first season with Peter Dunne at the helm and I think he did a brilliant job of weaving all the different soap opera elements. Most importantly, it still felt like the same show. As the Dynasty/Reagan era kicked in, Knots became more and more glamourous, but I still feel he had a good balance with the 5th season. The cul-de-sac was important, new characters (like the brilliant Greg Sumner) were grounded and well weaved into the canvas. And that Wolfbridge umbrella story was perfectly executed.

Now with the 6th season I saw lots of filler and the new characters like Paul Galvestan and even Ruth Sumner bored me for the most part. I felt the Empire Valley stuff was very plot driven and seemed to drag on forever. As a result this wasn't a strong season for Abby, Gary, Greg and especially Laura. It seems like Ms. Avery spents most of her time as Greg's sidekick and as strong as their chemistry is, he's ultimately the reason she was written off IMO. Her relationship with Valene is completely eliminated and she's mostly an afterthought to Karen since she's never in the cul-de-sac. Even the nice layers she was given when she became an ally of Abby seems lost this season. To make matter worse, her hair was so bad that I couldn't even look at her. What a waste!

With Joshua, there's no denying Alec Baldwin's star power. He's a brilliant cast addition, but putting him with Cathy was a mistake. Lisa Hartman was more interesting as Ciji and Cathy only worked her first season. It's almost like they swapped Diana for Cathy and that was a huge mistake. Diana was played by a better actress and would've been more interesting with Joshua. She also could've prolonged his time on Knots Landing. Diana was at such a nice turning point when she left. I wish we could've seen her as an adult on the canvas for an extended period of time. Michael and Eric could never touch her.

I'm now looking forward to the season 7 experiment when Dallas and Knots switched HWs. David Paulsen always said his goal was to beef up the males storylines and overall I recall enjoying that season.

[Paul Raven]

[Chris B]

Wow! I've reached season 7, which was my first full KL season when I discovered the show 12 years ago. I see why I was hooked! Peter Dunne I now find a bit overrated and I *love* what David Paulsen has done with the show. He's made the male characters stronger and more interesting. The show is sexier and he's toned down the ridiculously over the top glamour that Peter Dunne brought on. It's nice seeing how sexy Mack and Karen are, knowing they become so sexless later on. The new characters Peter Hollister and Jill Bennett are brilliant additions and the writing for Joshua and Cathy is flawless. I also feel he has a good handle on Valene and I like that she's a stronger woman now. Laura hasn't gotten much to do, but I mostly blame her relationship with Greg for that. Even now that she's back in the cul-de-sac, she is so removed from Val and Karen. That's such a shame.

I'm kinda sad to know Paulsen goes back to Dallas when this season is over. I'm curious how he would've handled the show instead of Latham and her hubby Bernie Lechowick.

[DRW50]

Is that the Jean Hackney season? Or is this the one where Cathy and Ben have the non-affair? I guess that was also the one when Karen was kidnapped.

[DRW50]

I can't remember that much about the story with Peter and Jill, other than I thought Hunt Block was miscast and I wish they'd explored a bit more of Jill and Mack.

[Chris B]

I'm not sure if this is the Jean Hackney season, it may be, but she hasn't arrived yet. Val and Ben haven't married yet, Laura and Greg are still separated and Joshua has just started beating Cathy. His exit is coming up soon.

[YRBB]

I believe Jean Hackney is season 8--all Latham lol

Even though I'm not completely done with Season 5, I have to disagree that Peter Dunne was overrated. He wrote brilliantly developed and paced character and plot driven stories and really managed to glam it up without losing touch with reality (too much). Which is essential considering the show was heading to cancelationville and it helped it compete with the glossier DALLAS/DYNASTY/FALCON CREST trifecta.

I don't know what he does in Season 6 (I am trying to remain unspoiled) but it seems to me that his male additions, from the very start (Mack, Chip, Ben, Greg) were all WONDERFUL male characters, with strong identities and personalities and all of them very different from each other. So it always confuses me when it is claimed that the men needed to become stronger (by both fans and David Paulsen). Having seen a fair amount of Paulsen's season, I do like it a lot, but I'm not sure about the Cathy/Ben affair thingy. It feels like the soapy thing to do, it didn't feel quite organic. I dunno, I am interested in seeing what I think of it once I watch the season in its proper order.

I do, however, completely agree that it would have been brilliant if Paulsen had stayed... I guess that would never happen with Dunne bombing on DALLAS... I have a feeling he would develop more synergy with the characters and the show and do some great stuff because he was great on the other two soaps he worked on (and he had his fair share of brilliant moments on KL as well). What I don't get is, if Paulsen and Dunne switched, then why didn't they switch back? Was Dunne not trusted after what happened in DALLAS or is it that poison Latham, getting her grips on every show she works on? Ugh.

[DRW50]

I agree that the male characters under Dunne were strong. Generally I don't think KL ever had seriously weak male characters. I guess the only exception might be the third season, with only Gary and Kenny and Richard (weak, weaker, weakest), and then some of the later years, when Gary was a cardboard cutout, Mack lost most of his humor and charm and just went around yelling DIRTY COP and all but putting a padlock on Paige's underwear, Michael was weak, and Greg was a very remote, dour figure the women all had to do all the work for. I liked Frank but he was only ever a supporting figure.

Then it just got worse and worse, with one-note types who would pop in and out for limited runs (that horrible Peter Reckell character; annoying, permanently pouting Tom who was not a DIRTY COP; Olivia's husband with the perfect abs but who mainly just existed to be cuckolded by her; the Italian guy Anne and Claudia bedded; that poor son of Claudia's who was murdered by her in one of the biggest character decimations I've ever seen; TIDAL ENERGY guy whose sole highlight was when Kate hilariously called him a lousy lay).

I loved Ben and I thought he was the ideal male character for Knots - funny, strong but not too strong, insecure but secure, and drop dead gorgeous. I will always believe he was Val's soulmate...

I felt like they should have paced the Joshua madness story more slowly.

Edited July 7, 2011 by CarlD2