I always thought this was a great cliffhanger, but found the resolution less than satisfying. I really wanted Valene to get revenge on Jill, beyond just terrorizing Jill with scissors in her office.

That said, I don’t know what that revenge would look like. Maybe stuffing dynamite down her throat a la Wile E Coyote.

Edited April 8, 20223 yr by Chris 2

On 4/4/2022 at 9:37 AM, Chris B said:

When you consider how late he joined the show, Doug Sheehan got really good screen time until he left.I also actually loved his exit espionage storyline. I know the writers tried to bring him back later, but said he wouldn’t even respond to the request. This explains why lol. 

The espionage story had its moments but I thought it was a very bad fit for Knots, and the  woman  - Jean Hackney or whatever her name was - was very irritating.  She felt like she was airlifted in from Falcon Crest. There were also ludicrous scenes, unintentionally hilarious, like Ben putting Lillimae in a headlock. The worst was the affair with Cathy, which I did not believe Ben would do, and was lacking in any chemistry. 

On 4/4/2022 at 12:42 AM, Soaplovers said:

I think Gary and Val took a long time to reunite because she and Ben were popular together.  I remember my parents saying Val was too good for Gary..and that she had more in common with Ben.  Both were writers, both jogged,  both loved the ocean, and both had a quirky sense of whimsy.

I actually liked him with Abby better.

So did I. I never cared for the Gary/Val relationship. They got together when they were very young. They grew up to be  very different people. When they were around each other they both regressed emotionally and intellectually. 

On 4/4/2022 at 1:07 AM, j swift said:

Thank you, I was searching the TV Guide archives and it was driving me nuts. 

Actor's egos are something to behold.  The guy not only successfully moved from daytime to primetime, while still at a viable age, but also had a fragrance contract with Este Lauder/Aramis, and messes it up by whining about being the third wheel. Ben had potential to be paired with multiple other people after Val, and his role as a muckraking journalist could have easily played into future stories with Greg.

He had some further success with sitcoms, but, according to IMDB, he hasn't worked for the past 20 years.

 I don't think Ben had much more of a future on the show. They were undergoing massive budget cuts, and if talents like Julie Harris and Constance McCashin were fired, I don't see him being spared if he had not decided to leave.

He got another network show not too long  after leaving Knots. It lasted a few seasons, and then he just slowly wound down the way many do in the industry until he presumably retired. 

2 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The espionage story had its moments but I thought it was a very bad fit for Knots, and the  woman  - Jean Hackney or whatever her name was - was very irritating.  She felt like she was airlifted in from Falcon Crest.  

 I don't think Ben had much more of a future on the show. They were undergoing massive budget cuts, and if talents like Julie Harris and Constance McCashin were fired, I don't see him being spared if he had not decided to leave.

Your comments about Jean and Falcon Crest are spot on.

Also agree that Ben was on borrowed time when he decided to leave. He wasn’t part of the core, and they were stripping down to the core at that point.

On 3/3/2022 at 3:08 PM, Soaplovers said:

KL should have made her a mini Abby in training.  Imagine Karen raising a mini Abby (Diana) and Abby raising a mini Karen (Olivia).

The idea was touched on some with Diana going to Abby for advice/comfort...while Olivia would go to Val and, to a lesser extent, Karen.

I'm glad the show remembered Olivia and Val's bond...where Olivia went to Val for advice on her marriage.  A small scene..but showed how close the two were even if not in scenes as much in later seasons.

I also liked seeing the day to day things all the characters did...Lilimae and Val at the grocery store...Abby/Gary taking Olivia and Brian to a fast food restaurant.

Also one time Abby knew how to make fries..and Greg asked how she learned it..and she said 'I worked at a fast food restaurant' when I was young.  Showing Abby still had a bit of working class in her.

Those little moments made them more relatable.  Could you imagine Blake or Krystal at a fast food restaurant..or Alexis at the supermarket?

Abby was never just a rich bitch, even though by the end she was getting close  (which is likely one of the reasons Donna Mills quit). The early years were expert at showing her layers. One of the first episodes I saw was Silver Shadows, and it made me love Abby, because she had spent the entire episode trying to con an old man out of his money by pretending to be  his long ago love. He signed the papers and passed away, and she thought she had it made...until she realized he had signed his dead love's name, not hers. This was the moment where we could have, and often would have, had a scene of her throwing vases around, screaming, glaring, maybe even saying, "Burn in hell!!!" with nostril-flaring closeup. On another show, we would have. Instead, Abby, after her initial shock, regrouped, looked in the mirror (as she was still dressed as his old love), and smiled, fondly, because she actually had grown fond of him, and was clearly not going to let this ruin all the rest, or knock her back. There was a nuance which the other primetime soaps just lacked.

As for Diana. To be honest the main problem was Claudia Lonow's nasal voice. She was just incredibly irritating in a way you could not salvage. They had the right idea when, many years later, they brought Diana back briefly when Karen went to stay with her during yet another marital spat with Mac. She was fine as a talk-to, and it reconnected Karen to her pre-Mack roots, which, by that point, she desperately needed.

On 3/3/2022 at 1:26 PM, Khan said:

I think everyone slapped Diana at one point or another.

KL really miscalculated how much the audience cared about that brat.

One of my favorite soap scenes of all time is when Eric slapped her. Good stuff.

Edited April 8, 20223 yr by DRW50

I love this scene because social class was so rarely discussed in primetime soaps.  It was assumed that as long as one accumulated money they had access to the same privileges as those who were born with wealth.  I admire the writing that allowed Abby's motives to always be grounded in how difficult it was for a single mother, regardless of how many pairs of earring you owned.  She didn't want world domination, or to be the leader of an elite group of business spies, she just wanted what she felt she deserved and had been denied.

 

Great scene. Donna Mills was GOLD.

@DRW50 I loved when Lilimae got put in a choke hold! My favorite thing is that we got rare interaction between Valene and Greg Sumner. William Devante and Jon Van Ark were *so* good the few times we got to see them together. I was devastated she left in season 14, right as a big story was beginning for them. 
 

I will say, I agree about the Cathy/Ben affair. It was sad to see Cathy burn out in that way. I wish she’d held on a little longer and she could’ve been integrated into stories with Paige. 

48 minutes ago, Chris B said:

@DRW50 I loved when Lilimae got put in a choke hold! My favorite thing is that we got rare interaction between Valene and Greg Sumner. William Devante and Jon Van Ark were *so* good the few times we got to see them together. I was devastated she left in season 14, right as a big story was beginning for them. 
 

I will say, I agree about the Cathy/Ben affair. It was sad to see Cathy burn out in that way. I wish she’d held on a little longer and she could’ve been integrated into stories with Paige. 

Oh I thought it was funny (Lillimae often worked my last nerve, although this season gave her some of her best material with Olivia's drug addiction storyline), it just felt so away from the show I loved.

I think Cathy probably should have left immediately after the Joshua storyline concluded, although later on I could have seen her returning as Greg's latest wife, harder now, and clashing with Paige. I would have believed that more with the Greg/Anne saga.

I don't know if I ever saw this..

 

Maybe now that Knots Landing has been posting episodes to YouTube, I may get into it. I missed it first time around.

Seeing this  again for the first time in years I am reminded of what tender, layered performances Donna Mills was still capable of giving by this point. Michele Lee is very up and down, which spoils the scene a tad.

I think both were great on the show but Donna Mills gave more consistently controlled performances. I think some stronger direction would have benefitted Lee at times.

6 minutes ago, Chris 2 said:

I think both were great on the show but Donna Mills gave more consistently controlled performances. I think some stronger direction would have benefitted Lee at times.

I suppose that's true for many of the vets. I still cringe at some of Dobson's work in those years, before he improves a bit for the Jason story.

Paige as Mack's daughter was an interesting element for Dobson to play..and it was interesting seeing the subtle elements that went on between Paige and Karen.  They weren't close, but Paige knew Karen made Mac happen while Karen knew Paige made Mac happy as well...plus both also tolerated Anne.

The one thing I liked about Anne being on in the later seasons was that she had moved on from getting Mac back..but had developed a healthy co existing relationship with Mac and Karen.  

I often think had stronger writers been there in season 12 and 13..those elements would have been explored more.

Do folks think Anne should not have been brought back for these last seasons?
I didn't like all the caper stories and didn't find Nick nearly as amusing the writers clearly did but I never questioned Anne being around. Her relationship with Paige was interesting and made Paige a richer character and even if they abused it, the mutual dislike with Claudia made Claudia more interesting as well.
The stories for her were often weak but the show was often weak in those years so it never occurred to me that they should have specifically written Anne out for good.