OLTL: Discussion for the week June 30th-July 4th

[rhinohide]

1) She's not your Nat. She's mine. (Just kidding). I am glad we share the Natalie love. I just don't like that this appears to be more about setting up conflict with Jared and Tess while Natalie is a doofus. I get more sensitive about the writing for Natalie than just about anything, but I try to stay objective. And my objective (or at least as close to it as I can get) opinion is she's being written of late to be stupid, and it pisses me off.

2) As for your comments about Jared, you could be right. As I said I saw that as a change in motivation from the original story, even when Charlie confronted Jared on the day he was "revealed" to be a Buchanan. I didn't like that, and didn't think it was necessary. But now he did it to pay Tess back? Surely I am not dreaming that this came out of nowhere and has never been referenced before.

I hope you're right AMS. My biggest fear (and if this was Higley I'd be counting the days til it happened, because she hated me, lol) is that somehow Tess will seduce Jared to payback Natalie. But I also don't like that Jared is being set up to be in conflict with Tess. As I said, that makes this story more about Tess and Jared, and as a Natalie fan, I've been waiting a long time for her to have a story where she's not just playing the potted palm to somebody else's drama. Hopefully she will become a more active participant in the story and not just a prop.

I agree Julia. I like that all the characters in this story are somewhat sympathetic (except for Clint IMO). I just think there's a difference between sympathetic and pitiful. Jared and Natalie (and Natalie moreso than Jared) are approaching the pitiful.

I don't like desperate either. I don't want Natalie willing to accept anything. I feel like she's been getting crumbs for a long time from the Buchanans (and others).

I guess the bottom-line for me is that I agree with all of you that this is realistic, but I don't think it's providing character growth for Natalie and it's not displaying the Natalie I enjoy seeing. So I am just getting bored.

[Cheap21]

unfortuently, I feel this is how they have to approach things with her bc any other way would make her come across as more of a bitch than people already think she is. Jessica is the victim, grieving mother and widow. While I dont think Nat is the cause of her pain, she does feel pain and people have to be sensitive towards her at least for now. Natalie realizes this and thats the approach she's taking with her. Jessica didnt come yelling , defensive or hostile towards her today, so thats why Nat kept her guard down. There was no reason for her to get defensive, or suspcicious of Jess in that moment. It was realistic and I thought she handled things well, by letting Jessica lead things. Hopefully, she'll realize that Tess is in control soon and even then I hope she doesnt automatically turn hostile towards her bc its Tess bc her love for Nash was real and she's suffering too and for that she deserves some sympathy. However she doesnt deserve to be blaming anyone for what happened, especially sicne she's no innocent in any of this.

[Kstaff]

Was it just me, or did Jared give out these little suspicious vibes with his eyes during the whole Tessica/Natalie exchange? And Rhinohide, my dear, I love Natalie, too.

[Juliajms]

Oh yes, Jared seemed very suspicious. I think he definitely suspects the woman who came to see them wasn't the same woman who screamed at them in the church. It would have been interesting if Natalie had realized it, but if she had then this story couldn't get off the ground. Plus, Natalie loves Jess, so it's more believable that she would be in denial about what is happening until it's too late. Jared hates Tess so I think he's going to see this coming a mile away and Nat won't believe it.

[Vee]

I am very sensitive to the writing about Natalie too, especially after Dena Higley, who hated her more than anybody. But just because Natalie is a favorite doesn't mean she's any more fallible or tough or smart than anybody else on the show. Making her into that would be St. Cookie all over again. And on OLTL, people have a history of getting fooled by the alters, usually Viki's. Natalie is no different in that respect; plus, she's highly emotional, and desperate for forgiveness. As she should be, IMO. No, normally she shouldn't be so desperate, but wouldn't you be in this situation? I love Natalie, but she bears a modicum of responsibility for what happened, and it is unrealistic IMHO to seriously expect or want Natalie to counter Jessica's grief with sassiness and a reply of 'but you started it by imprisoning Jared!' That's not a Natalie I want to see, a Natalie who is strident but can't grow. That's more like Carly Corinthos.

Jared initially came to town to wreck Jessica's life, all because of what Tess did! He talked about nothing but Tess jailing him for months. He got the job at BE through blackmail. That was all about getting revenge on Tess. The Buchanan scheme came later, but it all started as revenge on Tess.

[rhinohide]

I agree with what you're saying but only if they want to make her more appealing to those who like Jessica and hate Natalie. They're writing Natalie to appeal to people who don't like her though, and I think that's a mistake. They didn't have to make her obsequious, for lack of a better word. I get that she's relieved that "Jessica" appears to be coming around. I just don't enjoy watching this Natalie. She's not displaying the characteristics I love about her. I wish she was more fatalistic about things. Understanding that she's done things that Jessica may never forgive and that it's going to take time and distance to see how everything falls out. So in the meantime, take control of the stuff you can control. Start developing a strategy to get BE back. I am sorry, but seeing her sitting on a bed looking at a picture of her and Jessica, and pining isn't something THIS FAN of Natalie wants to watch. I wanna see her kick ass and take names.

Not just you Kstaff "luv". Jared isn't buying it. He's keeping it to himself because he doesn't want to rain on Natalie's parade. As I've said, I hate that this is setting up a Tess vs. Jared conflict, and Jared has to tread very lightly because he's already cost Natalie so much. I don't like Jared tiptoeing around and dealing with nightmares either. That's not what I liked about the character to begin with. I love that we see his sweetness with Natalie, and that it's reserved for her pretty much. But what I liked about the character was his boldness, and his cockiness. We're not seeing much of that these days. Not only that, he's not being very sexy around Natalie and I loved that about him (although he's looking mighty hot).

I just don't like these two self pitying defeated people I am seeing. I get that they have to show remorse. But I've had enough. I want RC to write them for me, somebody who likes them and not write them for the people who think they have to pay for what they've done. I get that they had to pay, for awhile, but they have. Now I want my beloved characters back. Write them for me, the way I love them. Not for people who aren't going to forgive them anyway.

[Vee]

IMHO, they're not writing just "pro-Jessica" or "anti-Natalie" at all. They're writing both sides of the issue and you can choose who you side with, or you can have divided sympathies, like I do. That's what makes it good soap and not slanted writing. But in order to do writing like that, both sides have to be flawed: So was Jessica and Nash's, and so is Natalie and Jared's. It may not be fun fun fun, but it's good AFAIC.

Oh, come now. I want them to be fun again too, and I'm sure they will, but do you honestly believe it would be good writing or in character for Natalie to say "[!@#$%^&*] Jessica, let's go off and have fun corporate adventures again?" Jessica will forgive Natalie, and Natalie will be dying for it. That's just who they are.

[Toups]

Yup, he was definitely suspicious. He kept looking at the rose - what's the significance of the rose again? I forget.

[rhinohide]

I don't know where you get that this is what I've been saying. And I am honestly not sure what to think about the tone of your responses to me. I've already said I get how relieved Natalie is about Jessica's supposed "reaching out" for lack of a better term. I just don't enjoy watching her slavish devotion to her sister, and the total lack of anything else. We've had about four days of Natalie pining for her sister (I realize it's only one day Llanview time, but I am talking about what I've been seeing on screen), and that's been unbroken by any of the other aspects of Natalie's character that I enjoy. Or Jared's. I get it! Really I do. I've just seen enough of that.

The rose came from the funereal spray on Nash's coffin. Everybody tossed a rose into the grave and gave remembrance to Nash. "Tessica" thought maybe Jared and Natalie would visit Nash's grave and give their remembrance as well. Wanted them to feel included I guess.

[Juliajms]

If they are acting this way in a couple of weeks I'll agree, but Nash is barely in the ground. I think Natalie and Jared should still be feeling remorse and treating Tessica with kid gloves, until Tess shows herself. Then I think the gloves should come off. Now is not the time for Natalie to confront Tess about her part in Nash's death, but I do think that time should come. If Natalie is responsible for the lies that led to Nash's death, Tess is the one who really set these events into motion. The next time Clint says anything mean to Natalie, I think she should remind him of that.

Poor marcie. She is about to set herself up for heartache all over again. I hope she comes out on top this time.

[Toups]

Oh okay. I thought it was something else, like something to do with Tess/Jared's past (from the flashbacks they showed us months ago).

Thanks!

[rhinohide]

GAWD! I hope not! I swear if they go "there" I am so done. Somebody who absolutely hates Natalie (I think on another board) relished the thought of Tess seducing Jared away from Natalie and Natalie playing bridesmaid while everyone in attendance at Jared and Tess's wedding looked on.

Sadly, I can actually see Ron under Frons' direction going there. Stepping away from what we've all been applauding him for and trying to stretch the envelope. As if good soapy romance isn't enough. We have to make it twisted and repugnant.

[JackPeyton]

im waiting for slip ups to all be blamed on frons and not at all on RC...

as for jarred/tess.. god no. Bree Williamson & that dude who 'acts' in the jarred role have ZERO chem. I want evil tess. Id much rather she just kill him. Tho it would be aweosme to see her take him from nat... but no.

[rhinohide]

Grrrrrrr!

I will say this. As remarkable as Bree's standalone performances have been (and they have) I don't think she's had chemistry with anyone evah! (Take that!). Seriously, I've never felt Jessica's connection with anyone, including Natalie, Antonio, Nash, Viki. She is devoid of chemistry.

[Vee]

I'm sorry if you think I'm being mean; I think people can usually tell around here when I'm being mean and when I'm not. I'm not trying to be, anyway. I'm just saying, what is Natalie, as a character the writers are trying to write as sympathetic, supposed to do? Not feel for Jessica? Not agonize over this? If she were to just stop it wouldn't make sense to me, or, I think, to a lot of other people. It's not like we haven't had good Jared and Nat stuff since Nash died, either. We've had romantic scenes, fluff, etc. But all of it has to be interspersed with the pain of the Jessica situation right now. If you ask me, that's just the way it is. I'm sorry if you disagree, but I just don't see how anything else would be even remotely realistic. I don't like the way Jessica has sometimes treated Nat either, and I like Natalie better, but none of that has any bearing on this situation AFAIC and it's all water under the bridge to Nat. It may not be to you or I, and I respect that, but I'm thinking of how Nat would react.