Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

 

Ah. Thanks for answering all my repetitive questions. I won't keep asking as I'm sure it gets annoying, but if you ever have more thoughts on this or SB or SFT or whatever, the few of us here who still talk about past soaps will enjoy reading it.

[juniorz1]

Keep asking!  I went to bed at 9 and I'm up for the day, 2 cups of coffee in, and bored.  

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[DRW50]

What did you think of the Alex/Clay twist, and the Alex recast, and Egypt, and her brother Todd?

[juniorz1]

 

The Alex/Clay twist was jarring and confusing for me as a viewer that started watching in 87- Randy Mantooth was the only Clay I ever knew and I'm not sure I quite understood why that did it.  At first anyway.  I then realized it was to test Ava's love for Alex and provided her with a compelling dilemma- love or money and power.  She chose wrong, at first.  I think it also gave Lisa Peluso some great material to sink her teeth into and get the viewers to accept her as Ava.  That's one story where I can't picture Roya- I just don't think she would have gelled with James Horan.  Peluso had chemistry with both Horan and Mantooth- totally different energies though.   Here chemistry with Horan was sexual and intense, while with Mantooth it was playful and fun.   There was a sparkle in her eye with Alex that wasn't there with Clay.

 

Egypt I LOVE, LOVE, LOVED!  What a hoot of an original character!!  She wasn't your typical ex- wife- she was smart and crafty, but kind of out in left field.  The way that character went about doing things was so different from the norm and certainly far left of other characters in daytime.  People compare her with Opal which I guess I see but I found her more cunning and eccentric than Opal.   Linda Cook was a gem and it makes me sad when I think that both she and Roya are no longer with us.

 

I don't remember Todd so I doubt he had very much impact.  I do remember Minnie Madden though- she was exactly the kind of friend you'd expect a character like Egypt to have.  They were peas in a pod- two eccentric, kindred spirits who found trust and comfort being with one another.  One thing about that friendship- while they may have disagreed internally at times, they would never EVER go against each other around or with other people.  Just a lovely and fun to watch female buddy team.

[DRW50]

The actor that played Todd put up some clips if you ever want to see them:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSK2puzMwhTa6W9x1sUjqgg

 

What did you think of the twist that Cabot sabotaged the plane that Shana's husband and child died on, and of all that stuff with Dane Hammond around that time? And what did you think of the different variations on Isabelle?

[juniorz1]

  

I can't speak to the Dane Hammond story as I wasn't able to watch it because Loving didn't air in St. Louis.

 

But Isabelle I can and will.   Let me start by saying first and foremost, Augusta Dabney was and is Isabelle.  She was the quiet but strong presence that balanced out Wesley Addy's very "CC Capwell"-like Cabot.  She was reserved, beautiful, and had a delicate way of handling Cabot.  She was stern when she needed to be but always soft.  

 

Celeste Holm is a PHENOMENAL actress who was miscast as Isabelle.  She made her strong and her features, even if they were married in real-life, were too masculine for her to look right with Wesley Addy onscreen.  Gone was the delicacy and softness and delicacy we had with Dabney.

 

Patricia Barry was an improvement.  She looked better with Addy but she was too fiery for the part.  Again, she wasn't soft enough.  Better than Holm, but not even close to Augusta Dabney.

 

Obviously the producers agreed because in the end, Dabney was brought back.

[DRW50]

What do you think was the best story Loving ever did, and the worst?

[juniorz1]

 

I'm going to touch on a couple that I really enjoyed- Loving is that soap where nothing sticks out as my absolute favorite.

 

The first one that comes to mind is the initial story that was airing when I began watching, which was Cecelia/Steve/Trisha.  Trisha had that strength, sometimes quiet other times confronatational, that I often admired in female soap characters back in the day.  She also loved Steve with everything she had.  I don't remember a lot of detail about it because I was only 7 & 8 and Loving was my 2nd new soap (Santa Barbara being my first) and nobody in my family had an history with it (my paternal Grandmother started watching in when Search went off the air- I watched with her).  But I remember Steve and Trisha's wedding, and Steve being shot dead.  It was heartbreaking.  They had been made to suffer for so long all for him just to die?  Difficult to deal with.   His death was so sad and effected me as much as Mary's death had on SB.  It was similar in its level of tragedy.   And I'd be remiss not to mention that Colleen Dion's best role was that of Cecelia.  She was perfectly cast.

 

The next that comes to mind, or rather the other one that entered my mind, was Stacey/Jack/Lily.  Britt Helfer (Robert Newman's wife) played Lily to the hilt and she had tons of chemistry with Perry Stephens.   I love how they involved Ann, Jack's mother, as Callan White was always a favorite of mine on Loving.  She was involved with Harry Sowolski at the time, who was Steve's dad.  Jack eventually did the noble thing and went back to Stacey, keeping in his character, but he was always tempted by Lily even when he shouldn't have been.   I thought that should have been a throughline in his character, but that trait didn't show up again until the affair with Dinahlee.

 

Others that come to mind are the Alex Masters/Ava/Clay Alden story, everything with Egypt, and the Jeff Hartman/Trisha/Trucker storyline.  All of those were very good.

 

But if I'm going for the best, it's not a storyline but rather, everyday scenes between Nada Rowland's Kate (I remember her name finally!!!) and Roya Megnott's Ava.  I just adored their relationship, especially when it was shown against the much different (but still compelling) Gwen/Trisha relationship.  The mother/daughter relationships were the most interesting ones on Loving and for me, a theme for the show.  Those two contrasting relationships were the throughlines for the Roya years and weren't the same when Lisa Peluso and Elizabeth Savage came on the scene.

[Sapounopera]

This thread is amazing 

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 Some random thoughts:

 

I hated the Clay/Alex twist and didn't believe that the aristocratic Aldens were suitable for that kind of story. The fact that Lisa Peluso took over as Ava during that period make me hate it even more. Egypt was great though, so was Minnie and I always thought that Todd would turn out to be Alex and Egypt's son.

 

I loved early Loving when Marland was still around and we had family moments with the Donovans and later the Rescotts. Sometimes I think that his stories for Jack Forbes were ideas for his SORASed Phillip Spaulding, the adopted heir he was writing for on GL. In some ways Jack's Lily was Phillip's Beth, 

 

I considered Clay and Gwyneth's family too immoral and I liked Ann and Roger's better. 

 

Marland's Ava was a factory worker played by Patty Lutz. Similar to Nola Reardon, with the single mother, the many siblings and the boarding house. When he left, she became more like Erica Kane. 

 

I thought Patricia Kalember was rather boring as the show's leading lady during the first few months, not to mention not very nice for getting involved with a married man. I watched episodes from 1983 to 1989, then the show stopped airing here in Greece. The Dolly mess was horrible and not really connected to the key characters; I hated the Alex Masters story, never understood the point of all these random Beachum boys. Shannon Eubanks was great as Ann and the show should have kept Susan Walters and Linden Ashby around. Too many changes and the show would always get lost within a story that went too far. 

 

[juniorz1]

Please keep posting in here Elsa!!  I love reading your thoughts, as you seem to be one of the few who saw the same time period in the 80s that I did.  It makes me sad that Loving never developed a following- it was always the lowest rated soap, no critical praise, no cult following.  I've always found it to be a solid half hour soap, far more balanced than B&B.

[cassadine1991]

Was Loving at a bad time slot? Did it not appear on other ABC affiliates?

[Soaplovers]

I lived in chicago and it was on at the 11:30 am (central time) slot...and it beat young and the restless.  In Chicago..ABC news and daytime ranked #1 with NBC a close 2nd...and CBS was in last...daytime that is.  Growing up...none of my friends mothers watched CBS..it was either ABC or NBC.

 

With regards to the show..Dinah lee was a fascinating character...there was just something rootable about her.  She came on originally as a nanny with designs on Jack..and due to jessica collins...the character became more then just a girl from the wrong side of the tracks.  Plus, she and peluso's Ava made good buddies.  The recast was a good actress..but she just wasnt Dinah Lee...and even the actress Elizabeth mitchell admitted she wasnt right for the part.  

 

I liked Peluso as Ava much better then Roya.  Roya's take on Ava was too much like Erica Kane...and there is only one Erica..imho.

 

I liked Trisha and was one of the few that bought her as a recast for Martha bryne on ATWT since Trisha in the 80s had the same function on this show that Martha Bryne's Lily had on ATWT.  Its interesting to see how Lily progressed on ATWT because i think he would have tried something like that with Trisha.

 

Stacey was the good girl that was always a loser in love...and she came across to me like a punching bag.  I did like how her and Ava's history wasnt ignored...but brought up on occasion up to Stacey's murder in 1995.

 

Was Jack and lily circa 1983 to 1984 a better pairing then him and Stacey down the line?  

 

Shame by 1986, Lorna didnt have much to do..at least in the few episodes ive seen.

[Sapounopera]

 

 

Lorna had an Pamela Sue Martin/Emma Samms situation. She became so weak and boring when O'Hara Parker (?) took over and that marriage to Zach Conway sure didn't help. 

[DRW50]

Is Susan Walters in this ad?

 

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[amybrickwallace]

As far as I can remember, Loving/The City always aired here in Cleveland for its entire run. It aired at 12:30 pm, immediately after the local noon news.