Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[EricMontreal22]

Did you see it? I never knew you watched Loving...

It sounds cheezy on paper though I've heard it's a fave of Agnes' herself (which might be reason enough for you not to like it ). I didn't mean to imply the snake was lame, just that I've heard various things about how open to interpretation the actual supernatural/religious element was (if you saw him turn into a snake or if afte rhis death you just happened to see a snake, etc)

[Sapounopera]

I watched that storyline. Too wacky and "dark" and way too much Dolly Jones during that period for no apparent reason. It felt like a cheap telenovela (probably that's why we loved early Loving here in Greece). It was during the Beachum brothers/Zona mess, or right before that if I remember correctly. Loving was a different show every six months, but it was mostly fun. The Keith/Jonathan/Dolly period was not so much fun and as a kid I was shocked by the fact that someone turned into a snake ON A SOAP.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Elsa

[Sylph]

I have, but not these particular episodes. However, I have read posts (I think it was Usenet or something) about it and it just sounded... I'm not surprised it interested Agnes, but writing it down like that and producing it...

Thank you, Elsa! So you saw the snake and falling of a bridge?

[Sapounopera]

Oh yes, I saw that Details are not very clear to me, but I remember that I was shocked by that scene. It was nothing like Loving at all and there was no reason to go there. At that time I thought it was clear that they wanted to show us that Jonathan turned into a snake, but I don't know if I would interpret it this way today. Even then it seemed very naive to me.

[EricMontreal22]

Ah sorry Sylph, I thought you meant you watched it during that period--which surprised me. I mis-read LOL

Agnes' run sounds all and all odd--maybe when Marland left she felt it wasn't working and decided to restructure it? Elsa, tell me mopre about Dolly--was she one of Agnes' over the top Dickensian caricatures (like early Opal, Billy Clyde Tuggle, etc) or?

I know Agnes Nixon's main success was bringing in the Sowolsky's and some of the romantic pairings (I think Trish and Steve being a big one)--soap press at the time often mentioned the success of that family, and in one of the Paley Center videos with Agnes from 1987, ALL of the Loving related questions from the audience are about them. Of course, typical of Loving, by the time Agnes left as HW the family was largely gone due to the popular actors leaving, etc, (I think one of them left to do a sitcom with Mary Tyler Moore or something).

Interestingly when Agnes Nixon returned as HW in '94 she did another bizarre gothic storyline (Dante, played by Thom Christopher and his "pet" who turned out to be Curtis in a cage, LOL). Maybe Agnes wasn't sure of her vision for Loving either... (though I loved her 10 or so months back on the show).

[EricMontreal22]

It always surprises me how popular Loving was overseas--I used to think it was kinda an urban myth till my South African friend confirmed that EVERYONE he knew watched it there and the media was familiar with it enough to mention Ava and Trish on the news, etc... I know it was big in France too and Italy for nearly its entire run.

[Sapounopera]

However original Ava (as played by Patty Lotz) was a factory worker and was more like Marland's Nola Reardon, Nola Dancy and Meg Snyder.

[BFORE02]

I remember hearing the cast use to laugh about the show and called it LEAVING instead of LOVING. There was a constant revolving door of actors and charchters going on , on this show much more so then other shows, I don't think it ever found itself or theme. Too many cooks in the kitchen like all the soaps now thats why they are dead or on life support waiting for the plug to be pulled.

[DRW50]

From the 10/25/94 Soap Opera Digest. K-III Magazine Co

10 Reasons To Watch Loving:

1. Nada Rowland

In recent months, Nada Rowand's overburdened Kate has taken up residence on the LOVING back-burner. Too bad - there isn't a performer on daytime who could have been as heartbreakingly touching as Rowand was recently, when Kate's eyes welled with tears and pride and she told Ava that her clothes, though shabby, were nothing to be ashamed of.

2. The Theme Song

Performed by Jeffrey Osborne, the LOVING theme is a tuneful shuffle of a song - one that's guaranteed to lodge itself in your brain for weeks at a time. You'll be humming it - particularly the catchy L-O-V-I-N-G chorus - everywhere you go.

3. The Wacky Plots

Never mind freezing the world. Never mind burying people alive. If unpredictable storylines are what you want, LOVING's got 'em - in spades. A deranged Dante kept Curtis in a cage and called him his "kitty." A would-be assassin chased Ava and Jeremy through Universal Studios until Ava was rescued by King Kong. Ava got shot in the head and visited heaven. Need we say more?

4. Aldens Adrift

The return of Cabot and Isabelle rocked Corinth to its very foundations. Clay and Deborah are now destitute, Ava owns Burnell's and Cooper - that's right, Cooper is the new CEO of Alden Enterprises. What that means is familiar characters are navigating uncharted waters, and it's great not knowing who'll be the first to get lost at sea..

5. Cooper and Steffi's Romance

Whether they're in prison, in the diner, or at Belden Pond, sparks fly whenever Cooper and Steffi start bickering. But their scenes can be bittersweet, too: Michael Weatherly's great at showing the frustration of a would-be Romeo who's convinced he'll never impress Juliet, while Amelia Heinle's tough exterior can't mask the sadness of a young woman whose heart has been trampled on time and again.

6. It's Only a Half-Hour

At just 30 minutes, you can fit LOVING in during lunch, between errands and appointments, before or after the gym. But don't think that just because it's short, it's disposable. The LOVING storylines often move at the speed of light, and virtually every episode has at least one major revelation or plot twist.

7. The Small Cast

With less than two dozen regular cast members on the canvas, you don't have to wait forever for your favorite storylines to roll around. Plus, the small cast minimizes the time it takes for newcomers to familiarize themselves with all of Corinth's citizens.

8. Randolph Mantooth

As Ava's beleaguered husband, Alex, Mantooth has great chemistry with every member of the cast. His scenes with arch-rival Clay are mesmerizing; Clay and Alex are like two pit bulls barking and clawing at each other. But Alex's tender side comes out in Matooth's scenes with Augusta Dabney (Isabelle) and Lisa Peluso (Ava). WIth these women, Alex becomes a man of humor, compassion and infinite patience.

9. The Humor

LOVING is quickly developing a reputation for its quirky sense of humor. With scenes like Cooper streaking through a very crowded bank, Cabot dressing up like a pineapple and Lenox the butler searching Deborah's bags before kicking her out of the mansion, the show's a hoot. Now that Clay and Deborah have taken over the diner, it's sure to be funnier than ever.

10. Trisha's Alive

Trucker's true love, Trisha, was a classic daytime heroine, and the LOVING head honchos were smart not to kill her off. Fans know she's alive and well and busy being an amnesiac in Italy. As soon as Noelle Beck's ready to return to daytime, we're sure the writers will put Trisha on the next plane to Corinth.

Edited November 22, 2010 by CarlD2

[EricMontreal22]

Did Marland create the original Ava? I know she wasn't there from the start and he left after a year or so--but that's interesting.

[EricMontreal22]

Carl that piece is excellent--we've discussed that era a lot but it was when Agnes Nixon was briefly writing again (well she did the Dante story and Steffi and Cooper who Iloved, anyway. I do find it funny how they bring up how whacky the stories are which really isn't what people associate with Agnes usually) and I *loved* the show personally--it was prob my fave (AMC was starting to get a bit out there at the time). Anyway I think they raise good points, though I always hated that theme song. And of course Trisha only had the briefest of returns (shame as I never really liked Trucker with Dinah Lee or anyone but Trisha--he was I think one of the most handsome soap actors ever but not exactly a great actor--though not as bad as some I can now name--so he really needed the chemistry they had with each other--it's prob telling he left acting it seems afterwards...)

[DRW50]

I have never thought of that era of LOVING, from what I've seen, as "wacky" -- that seems to fit more with some of their past stories (the Wild West trip, the stuff at Universal Studios with Faison, the story about Faust), but SOD mentioned the humor quite often, that scene with Deborah and the bags I think they mentioned in three separate SOD issues.

It's too bad the ratings didn't pick up enough for the show to survive because what I've seen of 94-95 LOVING holds up very well and has such rich characters and a cast that really tries their best. There was none of the dead weight or overly stylized actors (one of the reasons I was never a huge fan of George Palermo or TW King among others).

[EricMontreal22]

I don't remember the Wild West trip But I am pretty sure the Universal Studios stuff was the leary before actually (and not when Agnes was writing). The Dante/Curtis stuff was I suppose wacky though that wouldn't have been the word I'd use. Definitely 94-95 Loving (yep so counting Brown Esenstein's first daytime HW stint lol) was very strong I thinkand the show did feel like it had momentum and direction that I don't remember it having earlier (I guess I watched from very late 91 fairly regularly)--like I said it was a fave of mine. I wish I had saved more of it--I did save the last 8 months of the City but...

The Faust story (if you mean the snake one) was Agnes' earlier run though lol

Edited August 27, 2010 by EricMontreal22

[DRW50]

I meant the selling the soul to the devil.

I think some characters went back to the Old West, someone named Ruby?

It's too bad that the improvement had to happen during the OJ mess. If not for that I wonder if the ratings might have gone up.

[EricMontreal22]

It was during the OJ mess--It's hard to say I guess. Right, that's the snake story I meant. Interesting if they copied One Life and went to the Old West (Ava's quick trip to Heaven felt like a hommage to Vicki's much more elaborate one)