13 hours ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

The issue is that Agnes Nixon went to the network and threatened to bolt to NBC if they didn't give her Ryan's Hope timeslot

But originally Loving was placed at 11.30 am from July 83- Nov 84 so Agnes didn't seem to get her way at first.

By late 84 I think RH was tanking and they probably thought Lov had more potential to grow in a better timeslot.

I don't know why Lov wasn't originally placed at midday to lead off the soap lineup with Family Feud moved to 11am.

Using the Nielsen Ratings results from Jason47's website (which I assume were accurate for all soaps), it appeared as though Ryan's Hope ratings were not in good shape by the time Loving debuted. 

They usually finished 1 or 2 spots above Loving in the first few months of Loving's time on air so when they changed timeslots.. it didn't help either soap opera.  In fact, it kind of helped Search for Tomorrow a bit because there were weeks in late 1984 where the ratings between Search and Loving were not far apart.. and Loving had more affiliates airing vs Search.

I think the problem was that Loving didn't have a distinct identity that would make people want to go check out the soap.  Even if the soap had kept the original concept of focusing on the college and the people that worked/attended it.. it wouldn't have been enough to make it popular.

Although their first week ratings were a 4.9 for a time slot that wasn't known for airing soap operas with almost full affiliate support.. so had the show come out strong right out the gate, it could have worked in that time slot.

3 hours ago, slick jones said:

 

Per the Loving Cast list I have Hargrove was played by Scott Clark. I don't have a year listed.

Per "Victoria Foxton", he was a NYC ABC Sports reporter.  Here's a link to him being honored by the N.A.T.A.S.

https://abc7ny.com/scott-clark-sports-anchor-director-honored/4789983/

 

 

Which actress is playing Sherrie at this point?

 

Thank you so much, @slick jones!

19 hours ago, Franko said:

You're welcome. I always forget to tag everybody. And I agree with you -- these new discoveries are a real treat. @Kane is going to have a lot to work with!

Love it! Hope people keep 'em coming.

 

19 hours ago, Franko said:

It sounds like Sam was meant as either a fill-in or tryout replacement for Maggie (Constance Shulman).

This sounds about right. DTJB only ended up appearing in 3 episodes from January-March, 1993, so they must have decided a replacement wasn't necessary. Realistically, even Maggie herself became less necessary once Hannah came to the show and Dinah Lee's friendship with Ava was established. Dinah Lee didn't really need a recurring character as a talk to at that point.

 

20 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I just realized through the blog that Albers was the second longest Curtis. I do think he was a decent fit for the part, even if they never did anything of worth with him (a running theme with Curtis, sadly). 

Albers is my second favorite Curtis, as I felt like he came the closest to Marcantel's version and I thought he had really good sibling chemistry with Noelle Beck. I think that the Curtis/Rocky/Todd triangle was okay (although I'm mostly basing that on reading it through SOD recaps and the clips that Albers posted ages ago), as it seems like it was at least a little bit balanced, but following it up with Curtis/Rocky/Rio, where there doesn't seem to have been a sense that Rocky was in any way torn, was a mistake. If they had to move Curtis and Rocky into another triangle together, it should have been with Jeff. The show had the set up for him being redeemed during his time in Dunellen and establishing a bond with Rocky while she worked there, which could have transitioned to her trying to help him reestablish himself outside the institution and developing feelings for him, but feeling guilty about it because of everything he did to Trucker and Trisha and sticking with Curtis (for a while) as a result.

Watching these December 1989 episodes that have been around for a while on Youtube but I'd never seen for some reason. The other two have some wonderful Kate material (when she first has to wear her wig and meets Louie). This focuses more on Trisha's first funeral, and the last appearance of Ron Nummi as Rick. This is a mature, understated exit, with Stacey being very gracious to him. It bothers me a lot that they undid this only months later to trash and murder the character. 

You also have Marianne Tatum as Gwyn. I did not realize until recently that she was the bridge between Christine Tudor and Elizabeth Savage rather than Tudor returning one last time and then leaving. She is much closer to the last years of Gwyn, just drowning in pain. Savage is brassier, the more flip side of '40s movies, blowsy, with a heart of gold.

Another thing in the other two episodes (20/21) is how sorry I feel for Noelle Beck having to talk about how acorns are a symbol of love. Similar to Trucker having to talk to a raccoon in this episode, declaring that the raccoon helped his love for Trisha, I wonder how much they laughed and laughed. 

Robert Tyler was thrown in the deep end with some of this emotional material, but I do credit him for trying and getting better and better as the show went along.

 

Edited April 10Apr 10 by DRW50

I wouldn't say Jeremy was trustworthy.  After all, he had a nasty habit of falling out of love with women he "rescued," lol.

I must have missed LeClerc playing twins/double characters. I can't imagine it went very well.

I would not say LeClerc and Peluso had great chemistry...but the main issue is she had wonderful chemistry with Randolph Mantooth and viewers seemed to want them together more than the show itself did. There are multiple times over the history of the show where they try to move the characters on, and I don't think viewers ever accepted it. I don't even think most of them ever accepted Alex/Jocelyn. I didn't.

I don't think LeClerc was the right choice for a dual role. I wonder if he told them he would leave if he didn't get something interesting to do (which he had not as Jeremy in a long time).

Edited April 11Apr 11 by DRW50

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I wonder if he told them he would leave if he didn't get something interesting to do (which he had not as Jeremy in a long time).

He probably did.  Frankly, Jeremy Hunter wasn't much of a character even on AMC.  A mercenary (or spy, can't remember which)-turned-monk, with a knack for adventure and a yen for rescuing damsels in distress, works really well in a Robert Ludlum novel or on a Donald P. Bellisario-produced series.  On a daytime drama, however, it can become rather tiresome - both for the actor, and for the audience - especially if you rarely tap into the mercenary side of his persona.

The most complex relationships Jeremy ever had on AMC were with his father and Natalie, but they killed off the one and separated him from the other for reasons which still aren't clear.

On 4/9/2025 at 6:02 AM, Paul Raven said:

But originally Loving was placed at 11.30 am from July 83- Nov 84 so Agnes didn't seem to get her way at first.

By late 84 I think RH was tanking and they probably thought Lov had more potential to grow in a better timeslot.

Yeah saying Nixon threatened to bolt to NBC if ABC didn't give Loving RH's timeslot doesn't... make any sense at all when you look at the facts.

On 4/9/2025 at 8:02 AM, Soaplovers said:

Using the Nielsen Ratings results from Jason47's website (which I assume were accurate for all soaps), it appeared as though Ryan's Hope ratings were not in good shape by the time Loving debuted. 

 

In terms of ratings--how much truth was there that Loving out performed... Y&R I think (could that be?) in NYC and some other major metro markets?   That always gets mentioned but with no proof lol

On 4/10/2025 at 9:57 PM, chrisml said:

I must have missed LeClerc playing twins/double characters. I can't imagine it went very well.

He wasn't great at it but I kinda loved the Gothic over the top spooky storyline.  It was during Agnes Nixon's 1993-94 run as HW when, as we discussed some weeks back, she decidedly focused on Gothic storylines.

On 4/10/2025 at 6:36 AM, DRW50 said:

Watching these December 1989 episodes that have been around for a while on Youtube but I'd never seen for some reason. The other two have some wonderful Kate material (when she first has to wear her wig and meets Louie). This focuses more on Trisha's first funeral, and the last appearance of Ron Nummi as Rick. This is a mature, understated exit, with Stacey being very gracious to him. It bothers me a lot that they undid this only months later to trash and murder the character. 

You also have Marianne Tatum as Gwyn. I did not realize until recently that she was the bridge between Christine Tudor and Elizabeth Savage rather than Tudor returning one last time and then leaving. She is much closer to the last years of Gwyn, just drowning in pain. Savage is brassier, the more flip side of '40s movies, blowsy, with a heart of gold.

Another thing in the other two episodes (20/21) is how sorry I feel for Noelle Beck having to talk about how acorns are a symbol of love. Similar to Trucker having to talk to a raccoon in this episode, declaring that the raccoon helped his love for Trisha, I wonder how much they laughed and laughed. 

Robert Tyler was thrown in the deep end with some of this emotional material, but I do credit him for trying and getting better and better as the show went along.

 

Wow that was fast

On 4/10/2025 at 9:46 PM, chrisml said:

LeCler did get acclaim in the late 70s replacing Frank Langella and Raul Julia as Dracula (really!) In the beloved late 70s Edward Gorey designed revival on Broadway. 

Interesting they couldn't make Jeremy and Ava work--I remember their main storyline was a Summer (?) story at the new Universal Studios Orlando (before Disney owned ABC obviously) because they were on the run from a General Hospital supervillain I think (Faison was it?  I had no idea who he was so it was a cross over completely lost on me.)  There was a goofy scene with Ava interacting with the animatronic giant King Kong that I think the soap press throught was a dig/homage to the infamous Ryan's Heart story.

17 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Yeah saying Nixon threatened to bolt to NBC if ABC didn't give Loving RH's timeslot doesn't... make any sense at all when you look at the facts.

As recounted in the Ryan's Hope book - ABC already lost Pat Falken Smith to NBC

More from the Ryan's Hope book about Agnes Nixon stabbing them in the back

 

The NBC isn't a quote but someone saying "this COULD be what happened maybe" as far as I'm concerned (I had forgotten that from the great Ryan's Hope book though!)  And of course Loving was already at ABC and had been for a year--it all just sounds like supposition to me.  But obviously people were concerned--still, as mentioned, Ryan's Hope was doing poorly already and why anyone would consider it a bargaining chip is beyond me.