Days: Two Actors Out

[Khan]

>> White people LIKE YOURSELF don't understand that "black audiences" want to see characters who remind them of themselves--

Speaking as a Black audience member, I don't particularly care if a soap (or any show, for that matter) never features any Black characters. KNOTS LANDING went several years w/o one African-American family living in the cul-de-sac, and yet, when Val got her twins back, I probably cried as much as anyone else. That's because, I had formed an attachment to Val, and her predicament.

(But, what do I know? Maybe I's just denyin' my's peoples.)

I respect the right to hold one's personal opinions, CBS, but you have to understand that making statements like that make you, and the rest of us, look as bigoted as anyone else. (You're certainly not doing your cause any favors, know what I mean?) White people get that people, in general, want to see familiar characters. It's not as if they're doing everything in their power to keep that from happening, either.

[darraholic]

Really? I hated her romance with Tek. Lexie's best storyline to me was the babyswitch. Evil Lexie rocked.

[daysfan]

I hated all the Tek stuff, I think Tek was a crappy character all around.

Lexie hasn't had a good story in years IMO.

[Khan]

>> I hated all the Tek stuff, I think Tek was a crappy character all around.

That's probably b/c, he wasn't "Black enough."

[Shawn]

You rock. Seriously.

[DeeeDee]

ITA.

[ChangedBYSon]

FOR INSTANCE

When Lexie was talking to Shawn in his hospital bed,

they should have had her say:

"Shawn, I know things look bleak...but believe me...Prayer changes everything,

and no matter how bad this seems...you can always make a way out of now way."

She doesn't have to talk "street jive", but SHE SHOULD sound like she has a

cultural point of origin if she's to appeal to black viewers---I've talked to MANY

black soap viewers over the years and they never liked Abe and Lexie, because

they couldn't relate to them.

I'm CERTAIN that I've watched "Days of Our Lives" longer than you have...and I have

NEVER EVER watched it for Abe and Lexie.

On the other hand, VIRTUALLY ALL OF BLACK AMERICA turned "Y&R" into a ritual

because of the Winters/Malcolm and before them--Mamie and the other wonderful black

characters Bill Bell created.

Of course--Bill Bell always hired "black consultants" to write his black characters and

so did Agnes Nixon at "AMC" use "black consultants" to add little touches like

("I baked a sweet potato pie, you want some?") or other cultural references.

Who can forget when Jesse (AMC) called Liza Colby a "skank"?

That was 1981....it wasn't in the script (he ad libbed)...and the ratings

shot up nearly a full 1 million viewers from the "SHOCK" of it, because in

1981, the term "skank" was still a very new and urban term.

AGNES NIXON ordered that his "ad lib" be kept in the finished scene.

Imagine how disappointing it was when Abe caught Lexie in bed with Tek

and the FRIGG'N COUNTRY ASS DIALOGUE!!!

(rolling my damned eyes!)

I never said that I liked "Tek"---I said that it was HOT seeing Lexie have

a sexual storyline for a change where she got to be in a "womanly" story.

Lexie is as beautiful and interesting as Hope or Marlena if they'd give her

some flavor and something to do.

They never will.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

^You talk of dialogue making a character true to their "cultural point of origin." You also cite Y&R heavily, but what about characters like Neil and Olivia, who were perhaps written as whitewashed, at times, as Lexie and Abe? Y&R, even during Bell's tenure, was criticized greatly for isolating their black characters, storyline-wise, in the overall spectrum of the show.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

GL, also added an African-American family in the 90's - the Grants. This was perhaps the last true golden era of that show, but GL's ratings were never significantly effected at all, at least not to the extent Y&R and AMC's were. Such a shame, since IMO, the Grant's were a fantastic addition to GL's ensemble, also sad that they no longer exist on that show. GL received a lot of critical acclaim for adding African-American characters too, one of the most lauded storylines was the storyline where David Grant was accused of killing a known racist, who had attacked him. It was a stark contrast to the whitewashed "All American" image the P&G soaps typically had. That too never effected ratings, at least, nothing compared to Y&R and AMC's success with African American characters.

[ChangedBYSon]

NO...Neil and Olivia were never "white washed".

AGAIN...I am not talking about "ghetto street slang" here.

I already gave an example of the COSBY SHOW/etc. Even Diana Ross talks like a black woman.

Bill Bell may have been criticized, but his ratings proved he was right to direct his

black characters AT the black demographic.

On "DAYS", they bring on the black characters and then "neuter" them so that

they're non-threatening.

Not so with Drusilla.

She was VERY intimidating to white viewers, yet they also grew to LOVE her, because

she was so vibrant and REAL.

I happen to LOVE Lexie, I just think she's boring and "sometimes" her reactions to

certain situations doesn't ring true.

If you notice--most White People prefer Aretha Franklin and Tina Turner to the easy breezy

ballad sounds of Dionne Warwick.

I love all 3 singers equally, but I'm just making a point.

All Human Beings generally respect "others" who have kept some part of their cultural context

in tact.

For instance, I like the Jewish men who wear bowls on the back of their heads MUCH MORE than

the ones who change their names to "Scotchdale" and dye their hair blond.

Because the Whites used to own everybody in this country, the same rules don't apply to them

because by virtue of ownership---their culture is automatically forced on all of us----so that

"whiteness" appears to be bland (it's not bland, but it appears to be because we all share it

and everyone therefore calls it "white bread").

Same with Latinos. Why bring them on if they're not going to attract some of these MILLIONS

of Latinas watching t.v. during the day.

"DAYS" should keep Celeste and hire Davetta Sherwood (because shes' already popular with

black daytime viewers) and build an exciting story around them. GET THE RATINGS UP.

"GL" did wonderful with Petronia Paley who is another excellent example of a stylish, middle class

BLACK identified black character.

I do remember her saying to another character on that show--"Do you want me to knock you into

next week?"

She was wonderful on "Another World" as well.

NIA LONG as "Cat" was another great GL superstar.

GOD! If only they'd give Lexie some passion.

[Khan]

>> For instance, I like the Jewish men who wear bowls on the back of their heads MUCH MORE than

the ones who change their names to "Scotchdale" and dye their hair blond.

It's called a yarmulke, and I am so tired of this discussion, I could scream.

ETA: And how dare you imply you prefer one kind of Jew over another, anyway?

Again, CBS, your own comments are not helping your cause.

[Faulkner]

I just realized that there probably has never been a worse time to be black on daytime since probably the late '70s. ABC and Frons couldn't give a sh!t, Bradley Bell and B&B never have, and Y&R and GL are really struggling. We'll see what ATWT does with Bonnie, but it doesn't look promising, especially with no Jessica.

And to the point raised in this thread, I wish there was more cultural specificity in daytime, period. I definitely appreciated how Victoria Rowell's culture influenced her character's way of speech and behavior, but in an idiosyncratic way that was also individual to Dru. Even Krystal and Babe on AMC, as annoying as they can be, are a refreshing change as Southerners. But as long as daytime is in "fight for survival" mode, I don't think we'll be seeing that much in the future.

[DeeeDee]

The difference being is Neil & Olivia maintained a degree of cultural context that Lexie & Abe don't. Now, that doesn't make Abe & Lexie worthless or inferior as characters but it makes them a little less relatable.

But see that's precisely the problem. The Barber-Winters were never really isolated, they simply were mainly in romantic relationships with other POC (but not always) the majority of the time.

Bingo. For all the pontification about the greatness "intergration" viewers aren't even allowed to enjoy same race POC couples & supercouples anymore without those relationships being immediately derided as "cliche".

Amen. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Daytime stopped writing for individuals a LONG time ago. Now everyone's expected to act "properly" like the "mainstream" and/or not engage in "Mammy Speak".

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I also beg to ask, why didn't Bill Bell ever attempt to establish long-term African American characters on B&B? B&B didn't debut that long before the Winters were introduced to Y&R, so it would've at least made some sense. You'd think Bradley would've tried to add some more diversity as well, but he has yet to fully integrate any minority character.

I really wish B&B would've kept Debbi Morgan as her attorney character. She could've eventually become a corporate lawyer for Forrester and they could've added a family for her. Hell Bradley could have even tried to get Darnell Williams to play her husband, you know how much he likes stunt casting. They perhaps had the most respected African American soap actress and did nothing with her. Then again, B&B is a 30 minute show, and they already don't have much room for most of their cast.

It seems daytime television has gone backwards, in terms of diversity. It was a much more diverse landscape in the 90's, it's a shame where we are now.

[DeeeDee]

Exactly. A show set in the fashion industry with no POC? Atrocious.

ITA. But this is also a show about fashion without (unfortunately) any GLBT characters too. Which pretty much says it all. lol

Me too. She & Darnell have chemistry like WHOA anyway so it would've been a slam dunk regardless.

The saddest thing is that as much as Daytime has realistically regressed in terms of diversity?

TPTB feel they have progressed.

....Yeah.