Brothers & Sisters: Discussion Thread

[EricMontreal22]

I haven't liked the show nearly as much since Baitz left (funny the reasons he said he left--being told by ABC to focus on the younegr characters, adding that blonde bimbo who slept with Tommy, etc, were obviously such mistakes that they have largely been remedied). I don't care if he dated one fo his writers--I liked his vision for the show (even the politics which seemed smart when he handled them now they seem... Baitz said in hsi great writer blog how his goal was ultimately to keep the Walkers likeable but show off that because of their extremely priviledged background they arekinda clueless to much of America--which coulda been interesting instead of them being super rich but also super charitable and wonderful--boring)

Marti Noxon was never official show runner was she? I knwo she left the team VERY early on (like even when they redid the pilot early).

That said I liked some of what Monica and Alison did when they came to the show lastg year actually--at least I thought it was a slight improvement over the earlier part of the year (or maybe it was the year before--whoever did it before)--more soapy and not in an especially clever way but at least it showcased the actors better. But so far this year has been SOOO heavy handed and depressing for me--elements I liked seemed to be backburnered, we got anothe rbig drama story for Kitty and her husband bla bla. I've missed the last two episodes, and though I have them downloaded I've realized I have no desire to watch them. The actors and to a lesser extent the characters have kept me into the show enough to always watch it in the past (it helps that it's on at a time and nigth I'm nearly always home and usually wanting a distraction) but I think Sylph is right that despite consistantly quite strong ratings the show has gone through a remarkable number of showrunners/headwriters (this does though speak to the appeal of the concept, and probably most ofall the actors--and the timeslot)

[EricMontreal22]

Agreed. While I'm not really a fan of political tv shows orpolitics--under Baitz he handled them organically with the characters. Now they're on a fantasy realm and the fact that Robert has run for president or whatever just makes it harder for me to really relate to them. Which would be fine if this was Dirty Sexy Money (RIP) but it's meant to be more of a... I dunno. Ken Olin, cuz of his background, lieks to liken it to the Herskovitz/Zwick dramas I loved so much and found so relatable but it's really like that crossed with Dynasty or something. Maybe Olin could be showrunner--he seems to do decent work on it.

It also reminds of the current state of my fave daytime shows in that whenever they do bring up an interesting story point, angle or character that character invariably getsinstantly forgotten and we get a story that is essentially a thematic repete of a story we JUST got. And I'm all for them having a gay marriage on the show but I do wish they woulda kept Kevin's character (who I love) single for much longer--I just would find a gay character, who accepts his gayness and his family accepts it, on network tv going through the dating thing more interesting. It seems with any decent gay character who's a lead on network tv they're either closeted and coming out still--or are instantly in a happy monagmous coupling (which I know, and largely agree is a good gay positive image to shopw bla bla but...) I know Baitz was wanting to keep him single longer than ABC wanted as well.

Again--ABC why hire Baitz, an award winning playwright known for his complex and rather political plays and then early on, despite good ratings, tell him to do what he's not known for doing anyway? (I do think the mix of him and Berlanti may have thrown it off too--i think Berlanti is talented but, witness his work on Broken Hearts Club-aka a mediocre gay Steel Magnolias as a friend calls it--was not a good match, though I suppose he's one of the few people who has kept the show as consistant as it has been which, considering all the writer changes is no small feat)

[CassieFan]

I watched every episode to the date. Seasons 1 & 2 were wonderful. Season 3 started OK, but then when Ryan came, the show lost it's compass IMO. First, the actor is terrible. Second, I hate, hate, hate that they gave him a freaking contract in season 4 and now he's a main cast member. Too much Rob Lowe in season 3. Tommy was annoying as hell. Sarah didn't have a great storyline. Justin & Rebeca were boring... Ugh.

However, season 4, for now, is great again. I love Kitty's storyline. Sarah's love story with the French guy is OK. Kevin & Scotty adopting/having a baby can create a lot of drama. Oh yeah, Holly lost her money! In your face, b****.

[Sylph]

Er... That was just a trivial note, it wasn't something that was supposed to elicit any kind of comment.

[MarkH]

I couldn't agree less. For me, those early political discussions (which are all gone now anyway) weren't about politics...it was about members using the politics as a cover for their personal resentments and differences. Moreover, the politics helped the audience to get REALLY intellectually and emotionally involved with the characters...in a way that has never happened since.

What a good observation! You're right. The ABC interference was so misguided, even they realized it.

It is perverse isn't it? To hire someone edgy...and then sand off their edges. So odd. They clearly wanted a unique voice...and then were afraid of it. I don't have a lot of experience with Berlanti...I did not enjoy his DSM last year. But your description perfectly describes what happened to the show...Baitz lost out, and sappy melodrama prevailed. But CassieFan says something very interesting to me:

This is a great observation. I realize I am enjoying Season 4 much more. I do think that less Ryan (he has a contract, but we never see him) and less Tommy have really helped. Gilles Marini has definitely energized the show (I'm not sure if that's what I would have done...I miss the Season 1 approach)...it is funny and sexy.

Right now I find the cancer cliched...but I think they'll rock the emotional beats. I love the frenchman-summer-lover (and I thought I'd hate it). I am hating the gay adoption story...why why why are these men doing this? I see no real motivation in either one to have a child. (If they'd explain that Kevin was yearning for his bio-daughter, who left town last year, that would help...but that's not being shown). I kind of like Justin...but I'd like him a lot more without the Rebecca piece, and if we'd see more of his struggle and maturation in medical school.

But I definitely prefer this season to the last. Maybe there could be one final season, and Baitz could come back and do that? (Yeah, right...)

[Sylph]

Yeah, yeah... Nope.

[EricMontreal22]

That's exactly my problem with the adoption storyline. Fine--I already admitted I thought they emphasized their gay marriage too soon but while I think gays should adopt and sure it's interesting for story--WHY do these two characterswant to adopt right now? The fact that Scotty is good with kids is not a good enough reason for me. it's liek they do just cuz they're married and this is the next gay hurdle they must jump

[DRW50]

I didn't mind the idea of Kevin being single and dating, but I thought the actual love interests they cast for him outside of Scotty were not a good fit. All of the stories were all about Kevin screwing up, Kevin losing out, and if that became so tiresome after only a season, I can't imagine how much worse it would have gotten. I also resented the idea of this saint from above minister (played by an actor who seemed very uncomfortable with showing any affection towards Kevin) somehow showing up to make Kevin a better person. This was at the time when they also wrote Robert as a one-dimensional saint who had made Kitty a better person.

I really think Kevin works best with Scotty. The actors complement each other in every way. The problem is in Kevin's other stories. Working for Robert. The baby drama. Why?

The writing for Kevin was Baitz's big weakness, for me. I remember by the end of the first season how many boards were starting to HATE Kevin. The Afterelton recaps were scathing. I think he had some neuroses he put into Kevin. The crappy Chad storyline he said was based on stuff in his own life.

I also hated Rebecca's introduction.

I do think he had a better handle on Nora, Kitty, and Justin. Sarah, I don't know. I know I was happy when they dumped Joe, although she's been aimless since then.

I think the politics have always been a fantasy land. They did work better when they were the family arguing over them, or the talk show. Once they became about Robert and the perfect Republican it started to go off track.

What the first season had was the family dynamics, between the siblings, the characters had interesting relationships, individually and together. That went away in the second and third seasons, although it seems to be back, slightly, now.

I also think Tommy's absence hurt the show, because he was a big part of the family dynamics in that first season. Rebecca has never fit in.

I don't think it's about a "gay hurdle". They just fall back on these stories because they're easy. They did this with straight characters last season. Straight characters have also had big weddings on the show. I would find it strange if gay characters never had weddings or children. I just wish they had waited with this story, or not done it at all.

[EricMontreal22]

And what I loved was when they showed Robert and his brother's family they were all COMPLETE goofy, drunken, odd looking weirdos - EVERY last one. I have no idea how these two model-esque, moral, sober angels came from that brood.

I do agree that the endless parade of Kevin not being able to commit to his bfs was boring. I like him with Scotty to an extent too--the actors. I just don't like their storylines (they're a young gay couple and they don't even seem to have other gay friends? I mean they don't have to go to a Queer as Folk bar every night but it's just unrelatable to me--and yes I do have a few gay friends about Kevin's age who are about as successful)

I need to find all the Baitz blog stuff when he left, but he left long by abotu Dec of the first year didn't he? I thought some fighting over Kevin and how ABC wanted to portray him was an issue as well.

I also hated Rebecca's introduction.

Yeah the Joe stuff wasn't a fave of mine but in hindsight at least it seemed to have a clear plot arc and motivation. It's funny, it was that actress--Rachel Griffiths--whoapparantly was the most upset (she felt "betrayed") when Baitz left. It sounds like it was even his doing the show that largely made her agree to do it.

Sure but it used to add some "social issues" into it via the arguments. now it's all played ummm... I dunno how to say it--I guess to no side at all

I agree with all of this.

I wasn't quite clear with what I said about the gay hurdle. I jsut meant, I guess that it seemed unimaginative and too soon--but you're right it is par for the course with this show in particular. I do think gay adoption is an important subject matter particularly for gay married couples--maybe I object partly because it makes the "gay storyline" even less really relatable for me--it'll be a very long time till I even have to or want to think about adopting a baby. but I do get a sense that it's a storyline that, by gay stgandards (and this seems odd as I knwo the subject is in real life a very controversial matter) is really pretty safe and even boring (I was interested for a minisecond when it seemed like they might decide NOT to get a baby) because we know the evntual outcome already.

[DRW50]

I wish we saw their friends (we saw Scotty's friends, once, when Kevin sang to Scotty and they wasted Matthew's great singing voice). I don't think it's a gay thing, since we almost never see any friends of any of the characters.

He left early in season 2.

I don't know about Kevin. I think he did clash with the network about Nora having storylines, and possibly about Saul being gay. He also didn't want Rebecca and Justin to be unrelated.

I thought the politics worked with Iraq, but they fell flat with other issues, because they picked sides blatantly. They made Kevin look irrational for being angry that his sister not only opposed gay marriage, but went to work for a senator/Presidential candidate who voted to ban it.

[EricMontreal22]

Except now I even wonder why Kitty is meant to be a republican.

Yeah I agree with most of your points actually--and I agree with most of Baitz objections (I was worried that they were gonna drop the gay thing with Saul (though they certainly have cut it back)

[lovely_m]

Rob Lowe is leaving the show.

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/exclusive-rob-lowe-leaving-brothers-sisters-at-seasons-end/

[DRW50]

I wonder what they will do. They have centered a lot of the show around him, especially Kitty's character. He also has a big following, and they can't afford to lose any viewers, they already lost 3-4-5 million of their lead-in.

I hope they will be able to write Kitty in the way she was early on.

[Sylph]

Finally.

[alphanguy74]

Well.... would an assasination be too cliche'? In that case, it would have been VERY DRAMATIC is they had him run for re-election and WIN... and then be assasinated on the inauguration podium.