Mitch

I don't know if the Dobson's were universally loathed, but they changed the show quickly (I don't think for the better myself) and a lot of people left, (Helen Wagner, Eileen Fulton) during their time. They obscured the Hughes and basically shoved wrote Chris and Nancy in a corner. They DID focus on their favorites which were James, Barbara, John, Dee, Tom, Margo and Betsy and Steve. The group scenes that Marland would become famous for and I think defined ATWT during his reign, were not done, and it was just two characters standing talking endlesslu (Marlands plots dragged out longer but it didnt seem so as "everyone," was involved..) So your enjoyment of the show was based on how well you liked those characters. I think the main thing is that the show really lost that "family feeling," (the Montgomery were not the Hughes family) and wrote the show more like a frothy popular novel. Not that this was all bad...some of it was very entertaining, but it just wasn't ATWT. And they could have done all that without shoving Nancy and Chris aside, etc. Their second run was much better then their first, which was kind of depressing with rape, David Stewart yelling at John,etc. But even the second run the characters were so cartoony, with James rubbing his hands together as he plotted another ridiculous scheme, (did he ever go to work) John conspiring against him, Betsy acting slightly retarded...Craig having kind of creepy sex things going on, etc. Yes, they wrote the John coming back from the dead and he did have a costume on in the courtroom..it was actually quite good before spoilers... James "Hello Barbara," scene is iconic because it WAS so suprising. I was in the campus center in a TV lounge when it happened and people were SCREAMING. Had to be the best Friday cliffhanger ever. James never did a shirtless scene they always had him in the same beige jacket..which was weird, he was supposed to be rich. Marland changed that. Marland didnt take over for the writers. There were interim writers in between who didn get the credit they deserved for restearing the ship back to the Hughes family, with Kim and Bob getting together, and Nancy and Chris coming back, etc.

That read much better then what happend in 84 and 85..and you kept most of the high adventure plot points that the net apparently was pushing (Lujack going on trial for Andy Ferris, Infinity) Good job! I hope the net execs that pushed the abrupt change got canned....the shows ratings took a dive and it didnt really recover until Long, and really Curlee and Company put it back to straights.

Ths show didnt seem so bad then. Why did Tom not want Lisa to see the kids, because of the lawsuit? This Tom was such a selfrightous prig..(I never liked this Margo either, the other ones has a sense of humor but then Marland wasnt good with that.) Why did John teach at the school, becuase he was fired from Memorial. Is this the time that cute teacher was romancing Emily. He was hot and I got to say, I thought this Mark was hot and not THAT bad of an actor.

I think that was what Long was going for..and yes, I think Alex who was basically a "good," person, but hyper protective of her family and business (which the writers forgot once Marj took over and she became a screaming shrew) and not above doing things the "wrong," way to get good results, would have been great up against law and order Mike who also was hyper protective of his family. They tried that with Fletcher but he was too weak and annoying with Alex..(hated the actor.) Been interesting if they had married, and Alex and Mike were "two love" that just couldnt live together, they divorce and then Mike has to watch Roger swoop her up. I think that was what Long had planned with Alex knowing that Alan was alive, where he was, and hiding his criminal activities (she blackmailed him with them to leave town and hand over the company to her.) Then when Alan returns he blackmails her and finally tellls Mike what was up and he leaves her. I would love to know what happened with this and the abrupt change in tone that fall of 84 or 85 when the show unraveled.

Jennifer was kind of a bore wasnt she...(just like her daughters, Amanda and gah...Morgan..the Marland prototype for Lily Walsh..) Too bad they didn't hook Mike up with a younger, sexy "Bea Reardon," type (I know its gross to think of Bea being sexy.... Maybe a fiesty, working class mom with a bunch of kids who could have given the Bauers new blood. I always thought Mike would be a great patriarch as he didn't have the neurosis of Ed but since he could be a bit self-righteous he needed a fiesty woman to push back.

Love "Johnie Boy," getting under Lisa's skin, and his smirk when he does!

LOL...I am getting addicted to this storyline. It moves sooo sloooooowwwwww and everyone acts like they are on xanax, and I know what happens but if I leave that behind its kind of fascinating to try to figure out if Joyce is really on the up and up or up to know good. The actress plays here so well that you feel sorry for her at the same time she gives you a..."something aint right with this chick." vibe. I wonder what happened to the actress? I love that Chris and Nancy are the voice of reason and used so much. Bad on whomever tried to shove them aside in just a few short months they became walk ons. Chris seems more elderly then Nancy. I wonder if Wagner was ever jealous that Hays took over as matriarch of Oakdale? (and had a better color scheme in her kitchen.) Fun to watch these episodes and figure out how it could have moved quicker...(why do we have to have Mary calling Nancy on the phone and then basically telling Don "I called Nancy and you werent there?" uh, yea, we had to sit through the pointless scene.) Looks like chemistry testing with Kim and Grant so Nick has not been created by the Dobsons.

I love the late 70s ATWT clips with the Joyce storyline. I wonder what was going on behind the scenes here.. were the Dobson's forced to do the Joyce story as it got a lot of play here but then Don and Mary left and then the focus was Lisa vs. Joyce for Grant and then Joyce, just...left town. I am freaked out to think this Don is kinda sorta sexy in a bad 70s polyester I dress and act older then I am way.

It seems that Long was willing to write for Mike...as she had him paired with Alex for a while...that would have been great when they brought back Alan to see him with her sister, and Mike and Alex would be interesting on their own, Mr. Law and Order and Ms. Morally Ambivalent I Will Do Anything to Protect My Family and Company.

All Dobson material right? Wow, I bet this was the first time that "venereal disease," and "abortion," was ever mentioned on ATWT, and in the same sentence no less! The actor playing Brad was a total dofous and so goofy looking. Was that supposed to be chemistry and banter between he and Lisa? Were they testing him with her and eventually put him with Annie??? (though it would have been an interesting storyline to have him marry the more well to do older woman while pining away for the younger, sexually cut off woman...I wonder if that is what they had planned?) Lol on Joyce and the scarf and hiding behind the newspaper...which Laura Spencer would do in about 4 or 5 years back from the dead. I also like the "hippies," that picked Joyce up and that they went to the trouble of showing us how she survived...instead of a "I swam away from the car and hitched a ride to San Francisco." Carol was a normal cheery prescence...its too bad they didnt keep her on as recurring. They could have had her marry the town minister (who was actaully her husband in real life) and have her on recurring.

My own ramblings. In rewatching it I don't think that Hilliard is that bad...(by the way, did he quit acting and move into finance or something..there was some guy on House Hunters of all shows and his name was Marshall and he looked exactly like Hilliard..its just weird that if it was him they did not bring in his "soap star," status.) I think he was more Hart then McGrillo Gorilla was...(he always looked like he should have done gay porn which I guess was what his appeal was.) Not that I thought Grillo was that bad, he tried..he would have made a great Santos..and would be truly threatening as opposed to Danny and the other underwear model cousin they had play them. And yes, I thought the Santos, could have worked, if they hadnt played them so cartoony. It wasnt the mob but the fairy princes of San Crud that brought the show to a screeching halt. Reva's return was so badly handled. But with Ghost Reva it was really hard to save that crap. McTavish acted like she didnt want most of Pam Long or the Curlee years to happen...everyone went back in time, Reva was an outcast, Roger was totally dark, Holly hated him, hell, Amanda didnt age at all, etc I think if she had a good producer and some back up writers, she just totally missed out on the family connections (Michelle acting as if Nola wasnt her aunt, Michelle again calling Vanessa, "Mrs. Reardon," ) As I said before, Brent/Marion is one of my fave storylines, it was all sorts of dark, twisted, scary, and funny at the same time. Justin Deas on the rooftop yelling..just no..I cant image anyone in the studio sitting through the filming of it and thinking it was good. Tangie Hill was the pits but I really never liked the actress (except as Liza) and she had no chemistry with Josh. And I LOVED Moniz as bad girl Dinah...but I remember people hating her calling her "Dead Eyes," Moniz. Its weird I loved her chemistry with the worthless Sean, the Island Stud.she was the only one who made him work. I think one of the big reasons, besides the writing,etc, is that GL did not have a strong core during its last years. The Coopers werent it and Buzz was not the patriach. I can't beleive they didnt make better use of Ross as Father Confessor of the Town (funny story, in college my poly sci teacher looked just like Ross and me and another girl would always have to sit in front and drink in the Ross Marlerishness....she told me in private that she grew up watching this show, GL and and there is this guy Ross who our prof looks just like...) If wish they would have brought back Mike as Bauer Patriach when the Santos hit, Mr. Law up against Carmen and maybe paired him with Alex again. Then it would be he and Alex vs. Carmen and Alan.

Yes, Carl, thanks. Oakdale, the land of really bad Christmas sweaters. Interesting on how dour the later episode is compared to the earlier one. I think Marland was starting to slip and made the show darker and more depressing. Also, I forgot how dour Scott was. Poor Lisa, really gave birth to two bores.

Interesting that this is the transition to the Dobson's material. They were getting rid of Ralph, Dana, etc, setting up Dee and Ian for his heart attack sex, and introduced Brad Hollister. I know they were trying for a Lisa/Brad sparring relationship but what was his original purpose (that Indian Nickel thing was weird.) And tell me, was that supposed to be "hot" looking in the late 70s? Was the convo between Nancy and Bob about change supposed to reflect the show? It was weird seeing Bob Hughes and Ed Bauer have an argument over a woman. Damn, those people liked to drink coffee. I was surprised when Nancy said she had wine.

That fight was hilarious...Lucinda is that strong that she pushes Susan and Susan goes flying...across the room practically and gets knocked out? Isnt this the start of the back problem which is kind of dumb, she just fell down! (Wasnt this a weaker take off of his GH plot where Leslie and Monica are fighting at the top of the Q's infamous staircase and one of them falls down?) Why would those two be after lizard like John, who wans't even fun at this point, he was sanctimonious and a bore! Susan was still looking good in 97..I think the vets were draining the youth out of all the newbies to keep looking good....( I would say draining the talent from them but its impossible.) Love that 79 clip. The show was lethargic and poor Pat Bruder, walking around with a sad ass look on her face. One thing I notice, a HUGE amount of phone call scenes, and that sad ass music they were playing. Though Marcia was hilarious...going to the Hoochie;s mother to tell on her, all the while crying croc tears!

God that opening sucked and totally represented the show at the time..boring, bland, sleep inducing. I LURVED the Lucille Wexler actress..she would have been great as James bio mom in the Dobson's storyline or as Scotts' grandmother, nemesis of Lisa. Love to see her having a face off with Fulton, but they made Mrs. Eldridge a bore.

Those 91 clips remind me why I quite watching the show around that time and started really getting into GL..only to be dissapointed in a few years there too. Too many Snyder, weird Lily, ugly Courtney the "model,"....too many Snyders..that damn farm kitchen..(lol at Lisa driving out there in her studded dress) another whos the baby storyline and that really unappetizing Snyder incest theme summed up with Iva's "Well, I will never be comfortable with the man who raped me, who impregnated me with my daughter who just married my brother,but getting back to my rapist, you know the one who is seeing my sister, who is the illegitimate son of the guy who was dating my mother, well, I can deal with him at family party, despite the fact that he raped me because he is in THERAPY!!!! Good riddance Oakdale hello Springfield. Marland was past his prime here and should have left.

Yes, Lindsay Frost still has scenes with Kim and they were still close (remember the infamous, "Serving Spoon," scene someone posted earlier.) I think Marland said when he came on the show it was the "Betsy and Steve," show, and he was right. They had done everything with those two so he made them part of the ensemble not the STARS of the show which pissed of Runyeon and he left (one of the happiest soap days when he left the show...) Marland was also transitioning Kim and Bob to be new center of the show so she no longer was just "Betsy's Mom," but her own character and mom to about everyone who wasnt a Snyder. Love the John and Kim scene. It looks like Marland was on his way to reforming John a bit...and the Dobson's kind of put him back to square one. The convo he had with Kim about Andy being too young to hold a grudge was a good lead in to his relationship with Dee, that she was so young and naive that she looked at him as a good guy and not an ass like everyone else in town. I wonder if the D's used that and not just the "Oh, my first sex experience my partner died and now I am all screwed up." LOL at the John line..."I would be glad to talk to you about anything...even Lisa!"

So funny watching these..besides the Bennet story everything they talked about was so real and naturalistic. Wedding Showers, Nancy baking for Christmas..I can see why with GH doing weird stuff and being "action," all the time this seemed weird and "old." but its kind of nice. It wasnt until Marland came back that the show was able to balance all the OTT with, Nancy looking for a serving spoon, kind of stuff and James back from the dead, etc. Was Marland planning on writing Dana out too? All this talk of a wedding is typical Marland, "some [!@#$%^&*] is going to hit the fan soon." She got written out at Christmas. Also, it does seem as if it was Marland who was bringing back Joyce with Nancy and Chris and San Fran. Were the chem testing Kim and Grant. Dont see it happening chem wise but an interesting story for Lisa to come back and her best friends was dating her ex who she was still in love with. The wedding dream reminds me of Dark Shadows and the Josette wedding with her veil inveiling her rotted face.

Agreed...They could do some good shots, like the Christmas episode where Reva and Josh are supposed to be on the balcony of the Towers and its filmed in New York so SF looked glamarous, larger like a town not a little burg. IIf they had just found a way to build permanent sets that looked good and were big. I always thought Wheeler went for too many sets, where she should have stuck with a couple "community" sets like Company, the Towers, and Cedars and couple all purpose homes like of course the Spaulding Mansion, the Bauer house, etc,(there was no reason why they needed the police station or the Courtroom...have the cops talking by a cop car and rent a courtroom when you need one) and do it the old soap way, people coming in and out to talk about things...(yea, I knew it wasnt real during Marland's ATWT that everyone would hang out at Bob and Kims and just walk in but it worked. ) I always remember the scene of Alan of all people on his cell phone walking across the baseball diamond in a suit???? No explanation for why he was wandering around Springfield. Agreed...They could do some good shots, like the Christmas episode where Reva and Josh are supposed to be on the balcony of the Towers and its filmed in New York so SF looked glamarous, larger like a town not a little burg. IIf they had just found a way to build permanent sets that looked good and were big. I always thought Wheeler went for too many sets, where she should have stuck with a couple "community" sets like Company, the Towers, and Cedars and couple all purpose homes like of course the Spaulding Mansion, the Bauer house, etc,(there was no reason why they needed the police station or the Courtroom...have the cops talking by a cop car and rent a courtroom when you need one) and do it the old soap way, people coming in and out to talk about things...(yea, I knew it wasnt real during Marland's ATWT that everyone would hang out at Bob and Kims and just walk in but it worked. ) I always remember the scene of Alan of all people on his cell phone walking across the baseball diamond in a suit???? No explanation for why he was wandering around Springfield.

That is interesting, I didn't know that..where did you hear that? Plus Freddie Bartholemuex was still producer at that time, not MEB. Did he have a problem with the Hughes as he was a producer of the show for a long time. I love Behind the Scene stuff.

I do have to agree..I do think that Wheeler cared. Unfortunately she was clueless. Now if we could have had someone who cared with someone who had one little clue.... I also agree that, besides throwing Buzzard into the Van/Billy wedding, she gave GL a solid send off. I put GL to "rest," so to speak as it got its heart back, I knew what happened to everyone (who woulda thought we would have had a Reardon reunion ever) and as sappy as it all was, everyone was happy.) I miss ATWT more as it just kinda "ended." I also thought Peapack could have worked, bringing soaps back to what they were in the day, normal people dealing with a hightened reality. People were talking again, etc. I really think if PG had given her a real budget and a real headwriter it would have worked great.

It seems that is the case. I can't see the Dobson's bringing back a character so immersed in the Hughes family and the whole Nancy and Chris and Grant talking about SF is a total Marland, "Something is coming up," thing. Knowing him I think he probably would have had Nancy see Joyce in a crowd for a second and then dismissing it and Joyce following them around town and back to Oakdale. An interesting time in ATWT, and really makes me not like the Dobson's any better. There was a lot of potential at this time in updating the show but keeping the core and the Dobson's screwed it all up.

It doesnt seem to be a Guiding Light project...I have a bad feeling this is going to be a soap about actors whose show was cancelled or some nonsense. And would Peapack be a good place to have this little reunion...everyone hated it and it just seems that this wasnt the wisest place to do this. Newman and Wheeler look great. They don't ever seem to age. Billy looks like a real guy who aged normally and so does Frank D..the rest I shall keep my mouth shut about. ..(okay I wont, is this going to be a show about bad plastic surgery???)

I am not saying she wasn't popular, I just think that it would have worked better to have John defended by another town weirdo. I think the Dobson's thought it "daring," to have a rapist defended by a woman. Maggie did get together with Steve's hottie cousin Frank who was three million times hotter then annoying, nostril flaring Steve. LOL on those clips again...a LOT of talking and not much happening. I would love to see the credits but it seems so Marland with the people walking in and out and all the phone calls about "dinner," and who is coming. The only thing is I keep expecting them to say, "Where will we go for dinner...I don't know, maybe the Mona Lisa?" Love John slyly bugging Bob, and Kim's total blow off and annoyance with him. Are they setting up the return of Joyce with Nancy and Chris going to San Francisco, because they keep making a point of saying San Fran over and over again, and with Grant saying, "I use to live there." Was it Marland's idea to bring back Joyce and the Dobson's kept going with it? It seems they werent interested in Don and Mary and completely ignored Nancy and Chris' involvement later on.

OH-KAY! I often wonder if the people who invoke Karma don't realize that it works both ways..so perhaps your right now your saying one thing..and some bitchy person will not understand and jump down YOUR throat! So..what I was saying is that the show had WAY too many middle aged people, who all looked and acted the same....(how many lawyers were in that scene anyway???) There was no energy, the lighting was crap, hell even Betsy was dressed like a frau..poor Pat Brueder was dressed to look 20 years older, etc, hell, even Helen Wagner dressed younger in the 80s then she did here (maybe it was the times???) The needed diversity bad, both in the types of characters and in their ages. Granted..the show went TOO far by getting rid of Chris and Nancy and destroying that whole "family," interconnectedness. And as others have pointed out, they got rid of them but still kept the bad sets, lighting, etc. And really when I think of the ABC soaps at that time I was thinking of All My Kids which was the as close to ATWT an ABC show could get (multigenerational surrounding families...etc.) While I don't like the camp of AMC the energy and just .."liveliness," of the show was what ATWT needed. Yes, Marland turned Nancy into the sweet grandma but you can take that as her mellowing. I remember on AW didn't Lemay base the Matthews Aunt character on Nancy Hughes, though inverted it as the town busy body. Lemay always thought it was odd that Nancy Hughes was meddling in her middle aged kids lives, and ruled everyone, and everyone took it for granted that she was "good." I think he was consulting when Wagner returned right before Marland and she retained that imperious edge...they were cooking up Lisa driving a wedge between Nancy and Kim..which could have been interesting but so not Marlandish. As I said before...I like this Tom, if they had made him less stuffy. Deas was WAY too different. I think he would have worked better as his Santa Barbara character , though not bad, just weird and rebellious and it was him defending John in the rape trial...(as no one in town would defend him) instead of Maggie who felt tacked on to the Montgomery family. Deas would have worked as a buddy of Tom's from Vietnam who went to law school and was kind of jealous of the Golden Boy who he felt had it handed to him, kind of mirroring John's relationship with Bob, etc.