P.J.

She almost seems like a way to ween Ed from Rita. Just sub in one dark-haired schemer for another, and let the story continue. Van really dodged a bullet, 'cause I don't think she'd have put up with three affairs before threatening to divorce his ass.

It's just hard to judge. I don't remember them at all. I couldn't find the breakup scenes between Anna Stuart and Peter Simon (at least that I recall). The only kinda moment I saw in the German episodes was at Ross' bachelor dinner, (which is nonsensically held at The Hideout that Vanessa owns) where she kind of stomps in and basically wishes Ross "the best", and Ed and Ross give each other a look like "that woman will mess you up if she has her way". (Before showing up at the ceremony in what looks like widow's weeds....OMG, hilarious!_)

It's very brief, and honestly, it's like both Van and Ed forgot they were lovers. They both quickly moved on, and there were no hints of lingering feels. Vanessa's probably the first woman Ed didn't let complicate his next relationship. He always seemed to be mooning over his former lover when the next one popped up on his doorstep. And Van and Mo aren't "friends-friends" until like '89-'90. I think Billy jilting Van at the altar kind of kicks it into gear.

Maybe if the Bauers had been a stronger presence when he arrived , A-M could've been a lawyer. I'm fine with him being at Spaulding. And had Chris Bernau been able to continue, I think they would've developed Alan and A-M's relationship more. Phillip was already in the position of being the thorn in Alan's side. (or nemesis, I guess). I'd have been fine with Van being colder to Lillian, in light of the affair. But it would've been hypocritical to not treat Ed the same way. And I don't think the show wanted to bring up those kind of issues and "divide" the town after the fact. I'm not even sure who knew about the affair other than Van and Eve. And yes, Van's past was not spotless, and she ceased being the person who'd throw someone's past in their face circa 1984. While the affair with Ed was practically prehistoric history, her sleeping with Billy while he was married to Nadine wasn't. The only vague mention of their past I can recall is after Maureen's death. It might be the morning after---but at some point, Ed says "you must hate me." And Vanessa reminds him that they had known each other before Maureen, that he'd known her when she "confused" (I think that's the word she uses) and that he'd never thrown her mistakes back in her face. I think the Van/Ed pairing was a combination of things. It drove plot (giving Van access to a way to blackmail Alan, getting her close to Rita's ex) and it seemed there was some lingering ill will between Ross and Ed (I guess in light of Holly's trial). After Vanessa OD's, in the recaps, Ed encourages her to move on from Ross, that she can do better. That's why she keeps up the pretense that it was a serious suicide attempt, and not just a miscalculation on her part. That plays into Andy's hand, giving him a way to blackmail her. It's also a bit of the hero doctor/patient trope, and giving Vanessa a glimpse of a man who will treat her better (she and Ross were using each other, she'd slept with Andy in spite of knowing he beat Trish). Early Vanessa seems desperate not to be alone. She and Ed break up and less than two months later, she hits town with Mark who is a user practically from the word go. It's a lot of supposition, as there's not a lot of Maeve and Mart scenes available to watch.

I know there's a scene with Van and Lillian at the end where they both say they miss Maureen. But other than some words at Maureen's wake, Vanessa never held the affair against either Ed or Lillian that I can recall. Van and Lillian had never been chummy. And I still hate that Buzz and Lillian horned in on Billy and Van's wedding.

Alan-Michael always seemed to have to fight harder to secure his position at Spaulding. Phillip was always the darling. Even though he was jealous of Lujack, that was about Beth, not worrying about Lujack coming into the company. Even when A-M would prove himself (helping nail Roger for embezzlement) he'd wind up losing ground (losing the Presidency to Vanessa). And when Nick shows up, Alex is ready to hand him the keys to the kingdom, even though Nick's not interested in the business. There's a fabulous scene just before Bev leaves where A-M accuses her of pitting people against each other, reenacting what Brandon did to her and Alan.

And it was probably the only day it ever opened out. SMH. Poor writing. He couldn't have just tackled her in the dark?

A) because they had Roger and B ) because Phillip wasn't onscreen. Alan's life always revolved around Phillip.

I'm not sure when Dinah's miscarriage was. If it was before or after little Maureen's birth. But yes, for some reason, Hart slammed a door at someone, not realizing it was Dinah, and she miscarried. It was after Vanessa had given Josh and Reva her house to live in.

I don't know...Fletch could be an asshat. It was something about Holly accidently spilling that Jeffrey was Coop's father that lead to Jenna crashing the car with him in it? Granted---it would've been a bit of a stretch to get Vanessa out on a bridge. And Maeve, bless her, was not an Action Heroine.

I was going to ask---how long did you watch GL? True, maybe Hearst's A-M didn't show his Bauer side as much as CTE. But I saw Hearst's A-M as damaged from his involvement with Blake, and being claimed by the dark-side Spaulding power-mad gene.

As I understand it, the story evolved out of the way Holly's life crumbled after Fletch took Meg after she donated her kidney to Baby Mo. (I'm sure there's more to it, but I'm not revisiting that era of GL) Not only did Holly and Van already have a connection (via the Jack Kiley trial), they had similar problems (troubled relationships with older daughters and younger ones with medical issues.) But of course, the story was written for Reva to be our heroine. *eyeroll* Was Roger still in town?

Y'know, it should've been Vanessa. Vanessa and Holly had the connection. But...sigh...Reva.

They certainly were her Waterloo... Name those kids....Daisy, Shayne, Marina, Lizzie, Tammy, Kevin and Jason. Who's the dark-haired boy (Coop?) and the baby?

Oh lord....that list is long, but certainly those two deserve spots of dishonor.

I don't think Alex and Reva went at it too often, unless I skipped over stuff in '87 (which is possible, I know Alex thinks Reva's a horror and would've much preferred Vanessa as a sister-in-law). I'm sure whatever they did have, Reva came out on top, because no one ever got the last word in on Reva. EVER. RME. I don't think Holly interacted much with either Josh or Reva. They're gone most of the early '90's, when Holly's getting better stories. Maybe when Reva became a talk show host? Reva and Josh kinda stayed in their own lane a lot. They got new people to interact with vs the vets (aside from family). Neither really interacted with Roger, for example. Although I guess Josh did during the Peter custody story a little. I hated the Blake/Ben story. But GL was always ready to write Blake as a dumb slut.

And now I'm wishing I could've seen Mattson go up against Bev as a Spaulding. Geez...that would've been bananas, in a good way.

Unless they fundamentally changed the role of Hope, it probably would've been too tame for her. Amanda, arguably, would've been a better fit.

I've tried thinking of a Hope recast--Jackie Schultz was too much of a sad-sack as Dee (ATWT) so I can't see her working. Kate McNeil would've worked, but she was doing L.A. I don't think she did a soap after ATWT.

There's also something about Holly going to Switzerland with Ed and Mike...so I guess they really were easing Holly off the canvas (which surprises me, 'cause Holly really seems like a character Marland would've loved to write for). And yes, Vanessa was much more focused on Alan and Ross, not to mention sparring with Hope and threatened by Amanda and Eve's presence in Ross' life. So maybe she never did interact with Holly. It just seemed odd. I will say, it is funny to me that in '89, Vanessa immediately knows that Holly is Ross' type, and Nadine wasn't.

Tom Wiggin, my Kirkadoodle. He and Lisa Brown had mad chemistry (to my eyes, even more than her and Michael Tylo), but Marland scuttled them for her wacky sister Ellie. RME. It's true, Holly and Reva are two ends of the spectrum, that's for sure.

I'm not sure Tonja Walker could radiate warmth. Even if Hope had returned a tougher woman, she would've needed to have a Bauer heart.

Per newspaper weekly synopses, Holly was in town until late November, 1980.

Rebecca Hollen was such a lovely presence onscreen. The affair with Alan was the only story she really got to sink her teeth into, she's in the Andy story, of course, but she's only in it for a couple of months before he's shipped off to jail. Trish really was a stabilizing force in the Lewises, and it really felt she got booted to leave Billy dependent on his "new" brother Kyle.

1987 wardrobe is all over the place. It's not all bad, but I think they were trying to get her away from her look with Billy and then a tad sexier when she was reconnecting with Ross. (The dress she wears to after Dinah's graduation looks fabulous on her, as does her Fourth of July dress, even if that's a tad long for summer.) She wears slacks more, she's growing out her hair. I'm not sure anyone's look is really fabulous that year. Some of the stuff they put Bev in was hideous. And I'd argue they dressed Vanessa better than her daughter. Vanessa's arguably one of the few fashionista characters GL ever had. But it was always a classic look. Maeve really rocked the pencil skirt in the '90's. I think I've seen some stuff where they tried to dress her younger with Matt---and that's just not Vanessa. She was never "trendy" and she wouldn't have strayed from her look. That stupid line from Van's memorial runs through my mind, where Matt makes the stupid remark about how sometimes he's have to remind her to change out of her casual clothes to go to the office (or whatever...) ANYONE who knew Van knew she wouldn't leave for the office without her heels and clip on earrings, looking fab.