Soaplovers

I do think not bringing on Emily was a missed opportunity considering her aunt and cousin were still pretty active and front burning on the show at that time. Since she wasn't raised with the Norris clan, I could have seen her being the black sheep (i.e. the only normal, sane member of the family).

What makes a good head-writer? Is it someone with a clear vision of long term story with wiggle room in case an actor left and/or got pregnant? Or is there something else needed to be a good head writer? I ask because I finally got to see some of Robert Cenedella's work on The Doctor's.. and his stint wasn't all bad or all good either. On episodes where he was the script writer, it was a very strong episode full of great scenes and character development.. but he didn't seem to have a good grasp of long term story and/or pacing. And this is just my impression of seeing his 6 month stint on The Doctors.

When did the focus move from the hospital to outside of the hospital? Was it in the late 70s or more in the 80s? And would you say Marland or Pat Faken Smith started the shift from the hospital to outside of the hospital?

Hmm.. she seems very apathetic in that scene. She seemed more controlled then outright crazy or OTT like the other two actresses were in the part.

@Cat I was thinking the exact same thing... why isn't Dale a housewife?!?! She has a natural ease about her, seems fun and a little quirky, and most important of all...she acts like an adult. I read Tinsley fictional novel she wrote years ago.. it was a decent and enjoyable beach read (I read it in two days.. two beach days).. and I have a feeling that the relationship between her main character and the mother in the book wasn't so fictional after all LOL Good and sad to see Jill again... good because it's always good to see former housewives, but sad it is due to Bobby's death. I don't know if I want to see Jill on the show again.. she really doesn't have much to offer and I have a feeling Jill vs Bethenny would make the series toxic... though I'd trade Tinsley/Sonja for Jill so scratch what I just said lol

Yes it does!! It sounds like there was build-up to Ken shooting Ed... but it sounds like it played out in a way that didn't match with the build-up. I know that when Ken returned in the late 90s... there was a scene where Holly went to Michelle and Jesse for help when he went missing.. and Michelle's body language was hostile to the point where Jesse asked her why she didn't want to help.. and she blurted out that Ken shot her father so why should she help find him.... and Holly felt bad about that happening. I always thought Ken's return in the late 90s was wasted.. he provided good support when Holly was losing it.. but I always felt it would have been better had Ed been on the canvas to deal with what happened in the mid 70s. If that's all Leslie was doing in those last months, it's no wonder why Lynne Adams quit.

@vetsoapfan Were you watching during the Ken shooting Ed era of the show? Did it come out of left field, or was there a decent build up to that happening? I know Cenedella was the one to write that story before his departure. And I know Lynne Adams opted to quit in 1976.. but did the Dobson's do much with Leslie or was she in back burner land during their first months at the helm?

I think the Labine's expanded it when they wrote in the 73-75 period by bringing back Meg and her two kids Ben and Cal thus reestablishing the Meg/Van angle that was popular in the 50s. We also were shown her two kids Ben and Cal that were kind of like Meg/Van (Ben was like Meg and Cal was like Van). From what I've heard, Gabrielle Upton was the one that totally uprooted the canvas by making Ben the nice one.. and writing off Cal.. when the Meg/Cal conflict was a big component to the semi revival the show had in the mid 70s... but I do think the early morning time slot hurt them as well. People always forget time slot can make or break a show sometimes. I also do think if the show continued in 1980, we would have seen the canvas continue to adjust since Marcus was just mere months into her regime and the quality was slowly improving. If rumors were true Tudi was leaving, it could be why Marcus was planning to bring back Van's step daughter to fill the Meg void... and I do think Dana Delaney's character had potential to be a young Meg in training. However, I think the biggest issue for LOL was that the premise was good and evil... Van was all good and Meg was all evil (or more grey when she returned in the 70s). I think as soaps continued to evolve.. the all good and all bad concept was indeed your 'grandmas' soap.. and not a modern day soap. Still if Ann Marcus was given at least another year, I think viewers could have seen what her true vision/plan was because the show was still in transition with the Ben/Mia/Betsy triangle looking to be resolved ( I have a feeling Mia and/or Betsy would have been written off).. Arlene was seen walking away from her abusive husband (and rumors were saying she was wanting to leave so maybe that was setting the stage for her leaving the show).. etc. I think if you looked at the more recent additions, we could see where Marcus was going.. a more modern soap with a connection to the tentpoles Bruce/Van.

I heard that Heather #2 was given the chance to reprise the role, but that she turned the offer down so Robin Mattson was hired instead. It does sound like Heather was made less crazy in the early 80s and even left town semi sane. What was Heather #1 like? I know that she was Cher's half-sister, but there aren't a lot of scenes available of her playing the role. and she was the one that got the ball rolling with her instant crush on Jeff, plotting to break him and Monica up, etc.

My theory for Jada picking the Doctors might of had to do with the 30 minute format, it was the reason why Katherine Glass joined The Doctors later when the ratings were even lower than they were in 1976... the half hour format allowed for shorter work days, more flexibility and maybe the money was better.

Didn't the show kind of do that with Meg's daughter Cal? She seemed more like Vanessa than Meg based on what I read in summaries.

I actually think that story played better then it sounded.. from watching online. She was looking for her father (it made sense she would after becoming a parent and finally seeing things from Mona's point of view).. and seeing him working at a circus was interesting to say the least. He had dreams of stardom hence why he abandoned the family to try his luck in Hollywood.. and seeing him in a circus should have given Erica a rude awakening. But she had other good stories that played better. I tend to look beneath the surface and see the possible motivations for a plot point. I am curious... are there any interviews with Depriest around? I know she's in her 80s now.. but I'd wish someone had interviewed her to find out her thought process for certain stories. I think she was hired on the Doctors because of the action aspect... @Khan That's my theory anyway and based on summaries I've read.. the action is ramped up during her brief stint.

If you think about the same could have been asked about SFT.. which started as a story about Jo navigating life as a young widow with a young daughter... but the show had a rebirth in the mid 70s by expanding the scope of the canvas focusing on Jo's family, Stu's family, and a bunch of younger characters that were connected to both families either through blood or friendship. LOL's biggest problem was always the time slot. They were usually aired before 11 AM.. and even when the Labine's revived the show creatively (from what I hear Depriest maintained what the Labine's were doing)... it never reached higher then 8th or 9th place.. and even though Marcus was working her magic.. the show was moved to 4/3 PM so it was usually not aired by certain affiliates.. or were being killed by Edge of Night on ABC... (hence why I think Marcus tried adding younger characters to appeal to the afterschool crowd).

I can't recall for sure.. but I think Marland said The Doctors was his learning curve and that whatever mistakes he made writing the soap, he learned from on his future projects (though I don't think he truly did with the onslaught of Snyders hogging airtime right away). So I'll be interested to see if his trademarks were shown on this show or not. I know he created Sara, Barney, and Luke Dancy... but I think Depriest brought on Virginia and Nola. The problem I noticed with Cenedella was also pacing. A whole week focused only on the Erich kidnapping case and nothing else? He didn't have anything else on the backburner waiting to take over once that story was resolved.... he should have spent that time building the Tom being ill story... and showing Toni struggling with balancing motherhood and work as a single mom. Though I did love MJ/Alan as a couple.

I agree.. her stint on AMC was pretty good.. she had some good ideas that when Agnes Nixon resumed head-writing she ran with. Cenedella's 6 month stint on The Doctors had both highs and lows for me. Highs: More character driven scenes (Lots of good scenes between friends.. great Althea/Maggie scenes especially) Penny wasn't so one note (the Pollocks made Penny so one note).. she and Althea scenes were always tentative under him.. they loved each other, but each were afraid to say what they truly felt. Plus, I liked that Cenedella gave Penny a friend in MJ. Alan was likable.. and he was paired with MJ under Cenedella.. and you could see he cared about her, but it was played that if Toni came to him to say she wanted to reunite, he would have. Plus, it was eerie how much MJ and Toni looked alike (transference anyone). Billy/Gretel was a cute little teen romance that didn't eat up airtime (Everyone thought Marland started it.. but Cenedella started it). Jerry Dancy... finally a guy that is evenly matched with Penny... guess Cenedella started the Dancy family with Depriest and Marland both building on it. Lows: Not enough action. After the Steve/Carolee/Karen custody was resolved... there was nothing to put in it's place. Killing off Dr. Tom... Ironic that Cenedella wrote Tom as someone other than a clone of Nick... only to kill him off. It just happened too quickly before we got a chance to know the real Dr. Tom Neutral: The Conrads... Eleanor is interesting... but she seems more troubled then outright crazy. Too much telling and not showing in this case. Why Althea would keep dating Scott baffles me (actually no it doesn't). From reading summaries a long time ago, it seems like Depriest shifts things... and looks to show Eleanor as being the one to root for.. and Scott/Wendy not as much. Once Depriests brief tenure ends.. I'll analyze my thoughts on it.

@vetsoapfan wow, I am suffering from whiplash. All the stories turned on a dime quickly once Cenedella left and Depriest took over (only 3 episodes have aired of her brief tenure)... and the character of Ann kind of did a 180. Miss career woman Ann who confessed in one of Cenedella's last episodes that she was taking stock of her life.. that her career was good.. but something was missing... by Depriest's 1st episode was saying she'd always been in love with Steve.. that her other relationships were meaningless because it was Steve she wanted and her life had no meaning.. but now she is going to get happiness. I'm like 'say what'.

I think that is why the show's attempts in 1993 and 2003 to have Holly/Ed become a couple never worked because Simon/Garrett had friendship chemistry in spades.. but not romantic chemistry. Since it's Pride Month... I can remember reading confirmation that Garrett was a lesbian and breaking it to my mom (who was a big Holly fan.. both actresses in the 70s and was excited when she returned in 1988). My mom didn't believe me.. she kept saying 'but she has such great chemistry with men.' and I said 'that's why it's called acting'. She said that she couldn't imagine having to hide who you are to have a career, and at the time, was glad actors/actresses weren't hiding in the closet anymore.

It's a shame the show was cancelled just as it appeared as if Ann Marcus was finally getting the show some focus and consistency. She had introduced several new characters that were more modern and likable.. and were mixing them up with the veterans. Even though Dana is green, you couldn't help watching her and her acting partner either. I do wonder how that story would have turned out (was she really Bruce's daughter, or was her mother in her diary mistaken).

I think Shannon was as close to a girlfriend as Lily had... especially in the mid 90s.

There were hints in 1976/1977 that LIsa was still interested in Bob.. but she wasn't aware of it except her mother Alma called her out on her being jealous of attention any woman placed on Bob (at the time it was both Joyce and Valerie). At this time, Kim was married to John and in love with Dan Stewart.

I'm gathering this is right before Broderick/Miller were demoted as headwriters. Between this episode and the end of December 1989, it's like a completely different show.... Julie/Nico were still a couple..kind of.. with Cecily trying to play matchmaker (by end of December.. Julie has just left town and Nico/Cecily are a couple).. Erica/Jack aren't a couple at this time..but become a couple by end of year... Angie/Cliff are a couple here.. but end of year, not so.

I think for most of the 1970s, Lisa is married and in love with Grant while fighting Joyce... so I'm sure Lisa was more of a terror to Jennifer then she would have been to Kim.

I used to wonder how Chris and Peggy reacted to the Lorie/Leslie feud.. if they choose sides, etc. There were a few monthly summaries from late 1975 where Lorie was caught in a compromising position with Peggy's boyfriend.. and Peggy freaking out assuming that Lorie was trying to steal her boyfriend.. so that answered that question for me

I'd rather they had five instead of six. Although Gina is from the east coast, so I could see her not having a filter... and Emily's story seems interesting with her sister being her surrogate, as well as, being a step mother. I do recall reading that Tamra/Shannon had a fight.. but by season end, they were having fun together again. I do think Tamra should recall how upset she was at Alexis/Jim when they opted to keep socializing with Simon after the split... since I do recall they were couple friends in the past. Plus, Emily was a former friend of Tamra... so I'll be curious to see why the estrangement and why she's trying to be friends with Tamra again.

well today's batch of episodes saw the introduction of Depriest as headwriter so after 6 months, Cenedella is officially gone. Reading about the Steve/Ann story back in the day, it seemed to indicate Ann was totally at fault and Steve was innocent... but seeing these episodes, it looks as if Steve was pursuing her while she was trying to be sensible.