As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

Finally! The Endicott episodes are up! I loved Katie getting squashed to nothingness. I loved this story.

 

 

[~bl~]

The move happened in the fall of 1995. The reason I think the time slot move of GL in certain markets influenced ATWT goes back to how many people turn on the television (or back then with VCRs) go to the station early. The GL fans, while waiting for GL to start, would potentially see at least a bit of ATWT. If the show was strong, they may decide to start watching that too and vice versa if an ATWT fan kept the station on, and what they are seeing is appealing they may get into the next show. The potential crossover of new and/or casual viewers was altered in those places. It is sort of like how GH benefited from Oprah being on ABC in many places after GH, people would turn on ABC early for Ms. Winfrey and get hooked on the soap.

Doug Marland's death IMO was a huge factor in the decline of ATWT's long term quality. That being said ATWT didn't have major cast shake ups during that part of the 90s that needed to be factored in while discussing what happened. 

[DramatistDreamer]

I see what you're saying @~bl~, even though most people I know who watched ATWT also watched GL, two P&G shows with similar methods of storytelling, the contrast wasn't as glaring as between Capitol and ATWT.  Some of my friends who watched both actually elected to drop GL, preferring to record Y&R, B&B and ATWT.

For me personally during 94/95, I had entered college, got busy in life and really only picked up most of the soaps in the summertime and although I remember a few storylines and characters from 94, 1995 was completely forgettable to me and I watched very little of it, '96 almost none of it. The storylines didn't move me to tune in and up until '95, I would have considered myself a loyal ATWT viewer, I was raised watching it, it was my favorite soap.  

Speaking of ATWT specifically, if the accepted narrative in soap opera lore being that the OJ case shifted the viewing habits of the soap viewing public in large number is the case, it just seemed as if ATWT and GL did very little to counter or compete. The writing/storytelling by 94/95 was bland and mostly forgettable irrespective of casting.  There were a couple of decent storylines but writers no longer seemed capable of layering storyline after storyline so that you had multiple compelling storylines one after another as in the past. If the OJ case was this huge compelling juggernaut that all these people claim it to be, then shouldn't ATWT tried to compete with equally compelling writing? I just don't believe they did and I have have one big theory as to why but it's just my theory.

[Markjeh]

OMG that's the episode for September 11? My god I've been binge watching and I'm only in early July. I thought Katie's comedown would be any second now but it's still two months away.

[NothinButAttitude]

Even though Hogan's writing was so campy, reliving all of this era has been fun. It was far better than what the show eventually became. 

 

I forgot how much during this time he used Liz Hubbard, which is a plus. I just wish he would've felt the same about Kathy Hays, Don Hastings, Eileen Fulton, Helen Wagner, Kathleen Widdoes, and Larry Bryggman too. 

 

This era is also reminding me how much I loathed Emily at the time. 

[YRBB]

Yes, getting Steve to be involved in the canvas feels almost painful. Like, it's an effort to him. There are occasional moments, of course, but it's reeeeaaally hard to see why Steve would ever be popular to me, at this point. (Well, the casting doesn't help). 

 

But, to Marland's credit, and this is part of why he was so great, he did keep his intention with Steve and did try, and for a character that seemed to un-inspire him so much, he sure kept him around for a while mainly for the audience. That's very telling. I appreciate his desire to do that... but now would like him to hurry up and decimate Steve LOL

[Mitch]

There has to be some backstage things going on with Runyeon at this time. I remember the previous producer would let no one touch him, even in a fight scene, as he was "the star of the show."I also remember Runyeon (to his credit) talking about when he left ATWT he thought he was all that and when he went to SB and apparently didn't work out, he fell to earth.  I am sure he was not HAPPY about Marlands embrace of the entire cast ensemble and the core characters..(especially that Marland created a Kim who would NOT take Steve yelling at her..God I would have love a "kiddo" scene between Steve and Kim....

One wonders how Marland would have handled Zimmer!!!

Edited August 30, 2016 by Mitch

[DRW50]

I think Runyeon later said in so many words that his ego was too big at ATWT. 

 

I always wondered about Liz Hubbard and Marland. She was known for her ego as well, and that supposedly led him to push her out when he was writing for The Doctors, but at ATWT he seemed to connect with Lucinda and wrote years of terrific material for her. I know she wasn't happy with some of it but most of it was pretty good.

[NothinButAttitude]

Wow. I didn't know that Liz Hubbard got pushed out during Marland at The Doctors. 

 

I respect writers like Marland b/c he had no issue in putting people out to pasture when their breeches got too big for them. I would've loved to have seen him at Y&R, which is the ultimate show of egos. 

[DramatistDreamer]

I feel like when a vital William Bell Sr. was in charge, he tamped down inflated egos fairly quickly (e.g. the fight between Eric Braeden and Peter Bergman, where Bell threatened to fire Bergman, I think it was Bergman). Actors may have grumbled but did their job. Once he had to step down because of his health diagnosis and other people had to take charge of the show, I think that's when the inflated egos started getting out of control and starting to control the show's dynamic.

 

Yeah, Marland though, maybe because of his experience as an actor himself and NYC being a theater town where most actors are used to being part of an ensemble, Marland was probably able to be very clear about the actor being in service of the character and not vice-versa.

Edited August 31, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[YRBB]

Fascinating info about Runyeon and Marland/Hubbard. Didn't know all that.

 

How do you guys feel about Emma/John dating? I don't find it bad or anything but it does feel like a bit of a placeholder pairing -- just a way to give them story. They hardly seem like they fit all that well.

 

 

[DRW50]

I never had much of a feel for it - I don't think they would have been together. It was mostly just to cause angst with Meg and Dusty. I read that Emma was annoyed about Iva/John but I've never seen those episodes. 

[Paul Raven]

Re Runyeon.

Remember that when Marland came on,Steve/Betsy were about the only 'supercouple' that the show had,even though Meg Ryan was gone.ATWT was synonymous with Steve/Betsy to many viewers at that point. Marland may have had orders to keep Steve in the mix.

Maybe Runyeon's contract was such that dropping him would have meant a big payout.

Also,one of Marland's rules was never to come on and make cast changes immediately.Rather he advised waiting for 6 months or so to get a feel for the characters and which ones the audience liked and could be used moving forward.

He did contradict himself at ATWT however by dropping Frank and Maggie straight away.

[~bl~]

Part of the reason that Hubbard ended up out at "The Doctors" was Marland was moving it away from a workplace show to a "family" based one, and Liz's character of Althea had no family or love interest in town at that point. (She had long term friends and a goddaughter who was still a child, but no hope for relationships with anyone she had been with as they were part of the "families".) He created a new family, and built around the two couples/families that already existed. With ATWT's Lucinda, Marland created a family for the character with her daughters. She had Lily, Sierra, Bianca, and later the grandkids and the various exes.

More OT: with Bill Bell according to Jeanne Cooper they only wanted to dump Bergman after the fight and Cooper was like that's crazy either both should get into trouble or neither as it takes two for such a conflict. 

 

I can't really comment on Frank Runyeon on ATWT, but did watch him on Santa Barbara. I liked him on that show, but the character was supposed to be the interloper between Mason and Julia, which was a set up for failure in the 80s soap opera couple era.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by ~bl~

[DramatistDreamer]

 

 

Aside from angst for Dusty and Meg, I feel as if the John/Emma relationship seemed like more of a transitional relationship, where John, who had been known for being married to and lusting after much younger women, could now be seen in a relationship with a "mature" woman.  I agree that it was not meant to be a permanent lasting relationship and it obviously paved the way for a soap opera surprise elopement with Lucinda, who John had a much more organically fiery chemistry with, the kind that the big 80s supercouple-loving soaps would've wanted, plus John and Lucinda just had a lot more natural conflict, unlike Emma and John who needed their children to provide the conflict, Lucinda and John needed no outside source, they could create it all on their own.

Edited August 31, 2016 by DramatistDreamer