I could do w/o the crossovers. I'm not looking forward to the upcoming Y&R involvement.

The two shows are very different beasts and at this point Y&R is in such a poor state that any association tarnishes BTG in my eyes.

As for the mentions of ATWT etc take it or leave it.

I'd rather BTG focuses on their own universe and addressing some issues.

I was thinking about the Hayley story.

Hayley is a paralegal right? A paralegal is a trained legal professional who assists lawyers and solicitors by performing substantive legal work, such as drafting documents, conducting legal research, and interviewing clients, but they cannot provide legal advice or act without supervision.

So in between her other scams Hayley -is that her real name?- managed to get that training. Did that happen as a result of meeting Naomi? Was she parachuted into Bill's firm to help her out. How many years was she on the scene before she managed to nab Bill? It seemed like that was her goal the whole time, so it seems like a lot of trouble to go to.

Surely there were other unattached men available?

In canon, they have established (via Lynette) that Hayley has used more than one name; although we don't know for certain what is her birth name.

In canon, we know that Hayley got to know Naomi, when Hayley was * claiming * to be a young adult orphan waif named Hayley Lawson - an adult waif persona.
It has not been established where Naomi and Hayley first met? But I think she wanted Bill so she pretended to befriend Naomi. Dani and Naomi "took her in" to the family -- but not as a child -- they didn't adopt/foster her -- they took her into the family circle, something like starting with inviting her to dinner, then more regular visits. Hayley got Dani to mentor her and gradually subtly influenced Dani to convince Bill to hire her.

I honestly don't remember if they said (in canon) when Hayley got paralegal training, if it was something Dani pushed or if it was something she already knew -- I think Dani arranged for Hayley to be certified or whatever or maybe take a class? My memory on this is foggy.

Now here is what I'm only imagining in my head canon:
I'm going to * speculate/assume * that Hayley had already crafted a fake background in legal work. She had knowledge of legal stuff from her years as a con artist. She might actually be 10 years older than she pretends to be? ? This would all be part of her long goal of using Bill as her mark. Just my guesses.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by janea4old

I don't mind that the CBS/P&G soaps are in universe. Yet, I can also do without crossovers as they hardly, if ever, have the impact on story and viewership that is desired. The only reason, I am in favor of it, is that it allows BTG to integrate characters from other shows that are already established. Not that I think anyone in particular from ATWT and GL would be added to the canvas, but for example Mel Bauer was a John Hopkins graduate and a nurse. If they ever wanted to bring in a character (not necessarily an actor) with an established past that would be one way of doing it. However, this would only work for those who are establish soap viewers and of particular shows.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Hayley -is that her real name?

1 hour ago, janea4old said:

n canon, they have established (via Lynette) that Hayley has used more than one name; although we don't know for certain what is her birth name.

Well, I thought in canon, that Hayley's real name is Valerie? Outside of her other aliases of course.

Thank you! I thought it was Valerie, but I admit that I haven't followed closely recently so I wasn't absolutely sure. Appreciate the reply.

22 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

For a long time, it felt like Hayley was friends with Naomi for a good length of time when they were younger, and then got with Bill.

I was thinking the same thing and then when they decided to shift Hayley's story to the "Kill "Bill" story it changed. Now I think Hayley was supposed to have met Naomi and Ashley a few years ago to ingratiate herself into Bill's orbit.

I'm glad Hayley's story changed to make her a con artist because she has become far more interesting. She was grating on my nerves until that twist.

I agree and I was also confused by the timeline of Hayley and the Hamiltons. My original understanding was that Hayley and Naomi had been college friends, but the ages of these characters are either undefined, ambiguous, or the actor and the character's age are widely unaligned that it is really hard to say. Maybe Naomi isn't too far out grad school and that is where she met Hayley - but is Hayley spending years on a mark? Who knows....with a 10 million payday, I guess so.

Yeah, them shifting the timeline from what appeared to be at least a decade or more to a couple of years ago on Hayley/Naomi really messed that up. Just like the Martin's Secret storyline turned out to be a couple of years ago rather than seeming longer than that.

42 minutes ago, janea4old said:

Thank you! I thought it was Valerie, but I admit that I haven't followed closely recently so I wasn't absolutely sure. Appreciate the reply.

You're welcome.

36 minutes ago, Melroser said:

I was thinking the same thing and then when they decided to shift Hayley's story to the "Kill "Bill" story it changed. Now I think Hayley was supposed to have met Naomi and Ashley a few years ago to ingratiate herself into Bill's orbit.

I'm glad Hayley's story changed to make her a con artist because she has become far more interesting. She was grating on my nerves until that twist.

Not quite true.

There was a random scene where Derek and Hayley ran into one another with Derek acting a bit uncomfortable and concerned about her. She had mentioned that at this moment, they would be a group chat about some sporting event and that she missed being around all of them. Derek stated 'Ashley and I had recently met you and were still getting to know you.' so that told me that Hayley was a newer addition to the scene (maybe two years or so ago previously).

It was a throwaway scene, but I think the plan had always been to have Hayley be a con artist that entered the scene through an easy target, which was Naomi. And I think once Naomi had become good friends with Hayley.. she started introducing her to her others like her family, Jacob, Ashley, and Derek.

Hayley's 1:1's with both Jacob and Derek wouldn't those between two people that knew one another for years.. but more recent.

Also, when Bill had his stroke.. Ashley kept calling him Mr Hamilton and he gruffly said she could call him Bill, but she said 'I've known you for years so you'll always be Mr Hamilton to be.'

What I have figured out about this show is that MVJ tends to leave little clues in scenes that feel random, but when a plot twist pops up... you can think back and think 'This makes so much sense'. I mean Hayley's 'pregnancy' and 'miscarriage' seemed pretty random yet it was paced so well that viewers knew she was not on the up and up.. but didn't know in what way.

Edited 57 minutes ago57 min by Soaplovers

4-16

See? This is exactly what I meant. This measured 'just a little bit' approach to plotting is not working for me. Especially because the show is doing it with all the stories and at the same exact pace. While this episode was a movement day, it still doesn't take away from that fact. This one and 4-15 started off slow, but I felt made up for it by the end.

I would say the highlight for me was seeing how Nicole vs Vanessa has continued. And I kinda saw that it might have more legs to it than I originally thought on last Friday. Then again, I know others have mentioned that this story thread with Nicole/Vanessa/Joey has been building for a long while which is probably why I like it. It had a build to it. And it was a matter of time before Nicole was in direct conflict with Vanessa over Joey. And their friendship has been firmly established. I actually don't want them to make up yet at all because I find it fascinating. And Nicole reacted how I too would have reacted. I had too many friends who will forget all about you over a man...until they break up and then remember you exist. So her annoyance at the fact that Vanessa showed up cuz Joey told her so versus because she wanted to...HIT. But I was going to be on TeamNicole anyway because Vanessa has gone back to being Whiny Vanessa. And Whiny Vanessa ain't cute.

Oh, no!!! Not Lynette!!! I'm not sure how I feel about that story development. It is out of a 90s DAYS playbook for me, but Lynette has really pushed the Hayley storyline to its current position as one of the better storylines this year. And they have already stalled this story once. I would hate to see it slow back down or abruptly vanish AGAIN when there has been no need for it. Let the story run its course. Especially right now when it has so much momentum to it with so many people cluing in to Hayley. And I'm invested enough to see who will find her out...Bill? Tomas? Kat? SPS? Joey himself?...the amount of people have grown to the point that it now HAS to come out. I definitely feel Lynette's alive. So...is Randy holding her? Joey? Who?

The plasma ring storyline moved another inch (ugh) with Lia sending that henchman after Jacob. But he was overdue a beatup. Sorry.

I really enjoyed ChelsKat talking to Japan. Well, doing business period. But I always love seeing Kat in businesswoman mode. Whether they have an office or not, they are making it work so it was great to see it. I didn't even think that Madison's pending lawsuit might affect them. So a good beat to hit.

I live for any moment that I get Andre vs Bill. Always a pleasure.

I also love that we got a Bill/Martin scene and Nicole/Martin scene. What is with the show going back to a lot of good interactions we used to get a lot of last year?

9 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Not quite true.

There was a random scene where Derek and Hayley ran into one another with Derek acting a bit uncomfortable and concerned about her. She had mentioned that at this moment, they would be a group chat about some sporting event and that she missed being around all of them. Derek stated 'Ashley and I had recently met you and were still getting to know you.' so that told me that Hayley was a newer addition to the scene (maybe two years or so ago previously).

It was a throwaway scene, but I think the plan had always been to have Hayley be a con artist that entered the scene through an easy target, which was Naomi. And I think once Naomi had become good friends with Hayley.. she started introducing her to her others like her family, Jacob, Ashley, and Derek.

Also, when Bill had his stroke.. Ashley kept calling him Mr Hamilton and he gruffly said she could call him Bill, but she said 'I've known you for years so you'll always be Mr Hamilton to be.'

What I have figured out about this show is that MVJ tends to leave little clues in scenes that feel random, but when a plot twist pops up... you can think back and think 'This makes so much sense'. I mean Hayley's 'pregnancy' and 'miscarriage' seemed pretty random yet it was paced so well that viewers knew she was not on the up and up.. but didn't know in what way.

Okay. I admit that I forgot those scenes in my earlier post so that does help with the timeline in my head. Thank you.

I don't know if the direction for Hayley was changed, but I will admit the reveal did seem to make sense to me. From day 1, I found MG's acting to be strange, not bad, but confusing. It seemed like someone putting on or forcing an act if that makes sense. When we finally got the reveal, I was like oh maybe this has been a choice by MG all along to make us understand that Hayley is a character that Valerie puts on to get her marks. It showed that Hayley was both intelligent and conniving. I mean some choices lately with Randy do make them seem a little less intelligent, but oh well.

There have been some inconsistencies tho. Hayley at first, seemed to want to be accepted at the country club and by the Duprees. She seemed to be interested in going from a have not to a have and being welcomed into a world she was always excluded from. Yet, would Hayley -the markswoman- really care about all that stuff? I don't know. I would assume she would want to secure her bag and get out of there. Maybe along the way there was a shift or perhaps Hayley does care about those things or it might just be a way for Hayley to garner sympathy and pity from Bill. These are minute nitpicks tho

Those are good nitpicks though. Because sometimes I wonder if Hayley is worried about getting her score by killing Bill or if she truly wants to keep him from Dani out of jealousy.