1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

 

When they brought back Vivian back to Salem in early December 2009, they immediately reestablished that she was the woman who had given birth to Phillip. At the time, Phillip was on the outs with Kate because of her marriage to Stefano, which she had been blackmailed into because of her role in poisoning Chloe during Chloe's marriage to Lucas. The show had built up a lot of dramatic tension in the prior year between Stefano and Victor with the dock wars plot and then the renewable energy story before shifting it into more family drama. Tony died during a fight with Phillip, and Phillip I believe was suspected of murder. Nicole, who was emotionally tied to both a Dimera (EJ) and a Kiriakis (Brady), was the one who cleared Phillip. I don't think the Dimeras forgave Phillip quickly for what they thought was his role. Shortly after, Stefano was "poisoned" after going to Java Cafe and being served by a Greek server. Stefano automatically assumed it was Victor's fault, but instead it turned out to be undiagnosed diabetes. This led to the introduction of Owen (Wes Ramsey) the Kiriakis gardener who kidnapped Phillip's girlfriend (fiancee?) Stephanie and dumped her in the morgue where his father (played by Gordon Thomson) worked. Stefano's blackmail had just been the latest tie between the two families as Daniel, Victor's godson and Chloe's lover, was being accused of being behind Chloe's poisoned induced coma. Vivian's return with a her unrequited love for Victor and her past marriage to Stefano turned the Victor/Kate/Stefano triangle into a quad.

The way the show was being structured, it was clear that Melanie was going to be the daughter because Vivian wanted to kill Carly's daughter and also wanted to gain Phillip's love and respect. Mia was a red herring, but I also think there may have been an attempt to build an actual bond between Mia and Carly due to the fact they had both given up their children. Also, prior to Carly's return, there had been quite a big deal made about Mia's mother, who I think had abandoned Mia or was an addict of some sort. With the amount of build that Mia's mother was given, I think that Mia's mother was originally intended to come onto the canvas, but the cancellation of "Guiding Light" led to "Days" securing Crystal Chappell and going in a different direction. 

The one element that was never really addressed was that Melanie was also sorta of Frankie Brady's "sister" too as well as his niece. I have to wonder if there wasn't plans at some point in 2011 to bring back Frankie as a love interest for Jennifer in a quad with Daniel and Carly. 

Chad really didn't have much story after the initial reveal that Sydney was supposedly his daughter. This was mostly because everyone in his story group was weak. I think the "big" story for Chad was a ski weekend that all the younger ones were supposed to go on in February, 2010, after Chandler Massey was introduced. A ski weekend which I never think happened onscreen. It was just a bunch of romantic yearning between naive Gabi and worldly Chad with Mia acting super jealous and Will super clueless.There was a brief attempt in the winter of 2009/2010 to make Mia a vixen, but by March or April 2010 the show had secured Jessica Tuck for an arc as Madeline, Chad's mother and Kate's former hooker pal, for Chad's secret parentage the show accepted defeat with Mia.

I don't think "Chill" was intended to be romantic any more than Phillip/Rick or Dennis/Jamie though there was always going to be homoerotic vibes given the intense emotional intimacy between these men. If I recall correctly, in the summer of 2010, Kate had lured Will into the Dimera camp and there may have even been a suggestion that Will was going to become Stefano's protege, which I felt would have been immediately threatened when the truth about Chad's parentage came out and would have caused more animosity. I don't think it did in the end, but given how weak Rodrigues and Spritler were the show had no real choice which is also why I suspect that Mia wasn't replaced with another young female until they brought on Abigail nearly seven months after Mia left town. Though, they did beef up Kinsey's role in the immediate aftermath of Mia's departure by having her family lose their money and Kinsey deciding that she was going to turn tricks like Chloe to make a quick buck. I wouldn't be surprised though if the "Chill" reaction led to Sonny's introduction as it was fairly obvious that Sonny was brought on for Will even before MarDar arrived. 

Now, I am wondering if the decision to drop the potential Dimera heir angle between Chad and Will was due to the decision to instead go the route of Will and Sonny becoming a couple, but not before Will knocked up Gabi with Gabi passing the child off as Chad's. I remember there was a bit of an arc about Gabi have mono which I remember people thinking was dumb, but I felt it was somehow going to be used to either cover up a pregnancy or used to alter a pregnancy timeline with Gabi claiming she wasn't pregnant, but that her mono had recurred. This would have given Chad/Abigail, Sonny/Will, and Chad/Will angst because I think Chad would have agreed to go through with the lie for Gabi due to his loss of Grace, the daughter he never knew. 

I swear I always thought Mia was going to turn out to be Nicole's daughter.   I am not exactly sure why I did, but I thought that was where the story was going instead of the Melanie angle for Nicole.

2 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Haha people had been campaigning for Will to be gay going back to the Christopher Gerse years, but yes time sure does fly!

I want a count of how many characters have ended up gay due to fan demand. I can think of Will, Lucas on GH, Luke on ATWT and Mariah on Y&R. Anyone else?

God, Christopher Gerse. I still can't get over last seeing him as the pervy scientist on Westworld beating his meat to sexbot Rodrigo Santoro who promptly kills him. But hey, he's still working!

10 hours ago, Darn said:

I want a count of how many characters have ended up gay due to fan demand. I can think of Will, Lucas on GH, Luke on ATWT and Mariah on Y&R. Anyone else?

Fenmore Baldwin on Y&R (if only for one episode 🙃).

Katie Peretti, ATWT. She was a direction-less teen also ran for about two years, until she got thrown into an All About Eve-esque plot and decided to try and bed Holden. (and she's about the only woman he ever passed on...but I digress.) And she probably would've ended up on the same scrap heap as the rest of Lily's rivals, except for the fact she clicked with Paul Leyden. The rest is infamy. 

I think Brenda Barrett on GH would kind of count.

She was introduced as the wild child younger sister to type A Julia and was just a spoiler to Karen/Jagger for the first several months of her stint.  Interesting..but nothing really indicated in those early months that she would be a leading lady...maybe an anti heroine.

Then the show knowing that Jagger and Karen were leaving the show, started to test Brenda to see where she would fit (in fact, I think it was a dream sequence of Brenda with most of the men)..and she/Sonny had chemistry..and the rest is history 

6 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I think Brenda Barrett on GH would kind of count.

She was introduced as the wild child younger sister to type A Julia and was just a spoiler to Karen/Jagger for the first several months of her stint.  Interesting..but nothing really indicated in those early months that she would be a leading lady...maybe an anti heroine.

Similar trajectory to Greenlee on AMC. Introduced as a spoiler for Becca and Scott who were both swiftly let go. Greenlee and Leo's pairing skyrocketed them both and then eventually she was revealed as Jack's daughter cementing her place on the canvas.

I can't speak to Vanessa's debut, but it wasn't all that unlikely the instant you saw either Budig or Josh Duhamel onscreen IMO. They were introduced as spoilers for the latest iteration of Agnes' classic innocent young lovers couple - Scott and Becca - but neither poor Abigail Spencer nor a truly dreadful, pre-hambone Forbes March caught on with the audience at all even before Leo or Greenlee appeared. Once Josh and Budig showed up they were both electric. So you knew it pretty quick.

6 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I think Brenda Barrett on GH would kind of count.

She was introduced as the wild child younger sister to type A Julia and was just a spoiler to Karen/Jagger for the first several months of her stint.  Interesting..but nothing really indicated in those early months that she would be a leading lady...maybe an anti heroine.

Then the show knowing that Jagger and Karen were leaving the show, started to test Brenda to see where she would fit (in fact, I think it was a dream sequence of Brenda with most of the men)..and she/Sonny had chemistry..and the rest is history 

I think Sonny would be the better example over Brenda.  They had a huge casting call for the part. Vanessa had a contract and it was clear the show was building the teen scene.  I think it's obvious she was meant to be a B character, but I think there was at least loosely a plan to have her end up with Jason or AJ at some point if not play the spoiler for Karen/Jagger for a long while had ASJ and CS stayed on.  I am sure the GH didn't see her as the future leading lady she became, but I think Brenda's character at least a character they had investment in.  I think it was more of a combination of a charismatic actress, CS leaving, and a fire pairing that made her a star though.

@VeeAs far as Vanessa's debut, she was initially pretty rough, but I thought she quickly became the breakout of the teen scene.  People seemed to love CS's Karen, though.

Sonny/Mo had the Karen story and was going to be killed off? I believe after that arc.  He was so awful and smarmy I can't believe he made it past that story.

They totally used Luke to buy time with Sonny. This was back when Luke was still a rootable character.  Sonny was the short term character that within two years had his own little corner of the show- Stone, Brenda, Mike and the mob.  First he was partnered with Luke, then he and Brenda took off. This doesn’t even include how important Robin and especially Stone became in establishing Sonny for the audience as not just a slimeball.

I loved Karen and Brenda equally before CS left the show. They let Vanessa play volatile, but also vulnerable, which helped Brenda in the long run. I also felt that using Ruby helped her too- Ruby clearly had a soft spot for Brenda.

18 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

They totally used Luke to buy time with Sonny. This was back when Luke was still a rootable character.  Sonny was the short term character that within two years had his own little corner of the show- Stone, Brenda, Mike and the mob.  First he was partnered with Luke, then he and Brenda took off. This doesn’t even include how important Robin and especially Stone became in establishing Sonny for the audience as not just a slimeball.

I loved Karen and Brenda equally before CS left the show. They let Vanessa play volatile, but also vulnerable, which helped Brenda in the long run. I also felt that using Ruby helped her too- Ruby clearly had a soft spot for Brenda.

Luke absolutely was used to prop Sonny, but TG and MB had such a good rapport I can see why they went with that and the show quickly got that strip club out of the way once they decided to keep Sonny.  Brenda, Robin, Stone, and his sad backstory definitely helped Sonny become viable.

I also think Karen/Jagger leaving benefitted Sonny as well.  It was easy to not talk about the Karen stuff when she wasn't around.  Plus it gave the writers the oppurtunity to move Brenda into adult stories (and age her up onscreen) without much complication so Sonny/Brenda didn't seem as creepy.  She was still bff with Robin, but suddenly Robin seemed much younger than Brenda.  I do often wonder how things would have played out if Jagger/Karen stayed on and how Jagger/Karen as a married couple would have developed.  

On 5/29/2023 at 11:35 PM, Vee said:

I can't speak to Vanessa's debut, but it wasn't all that unlikely the instant you saw either Budig or Josh Duhamel onscreen IMO. They were introduced as spoilers for the latest iteration of Agnes' classic innocent young lovers couple - Scott and Becca - but neither poor Abigail Spencer nor a truly dreadful, pre-hambone Forbes March caught on with the audience at all even before Leo or Greenlee appeared. Once Josh and Budig showed up they were both electric. So you knew it pretty quick.

I can't say I agree. Budig was coming off of a failure in casting on GL and I watched her intro scenes on AMC recently and she was a pretty generic soap bîtch. It wasn't until she was paired with Duhamel that she took off. He however made a pretty quick splash as Leo.

On 5/29/2023 at 11:58 PM, carolineg said:

 

@VeeAs far as Vanessa's debut, she was initially pretty rough, but I thought she quickly became the breakout of the teen scene.  People seemed to love CS's Karen, though.

I watched her first scenes recently and I actually think she was immediately great. I didn't hurt that she's probably one of the most beautiful women to ever walk the planet but she did a lot of heavy lifting in those scenes with Julia. Maybe hindsight is coloring my opinion but I found her to be captivating and natural.

Karen was a dour bore to me. They seemed to put a lot of effort into a character connected to no one. The Scotty connection wasn't revealed until right before she left, right? Why was so much focus placed on this malcontent?

2 minutes ago, Darn said:

I can't say I agree. Budig was coming off of a failure in casting on GL and I watched her intro scenes on AMC recently and she was a pretty generic soap bîtch. It wasn't until she was paired with Duhamel that she took off. He however made a pretty quick splash as Leo.

I watched her first scenes recently and I actually think she was immediately great. I didn't hurt that she's probably one of the most beautiful women to ever walk the planet but she did a lot of heavy lifting in those scenes with Julia. Maybe hindsight is coloring my opinion but I found her to be captivating and natural.

Karen was a dour bore to me. They seemed to put a lot of effort into a character connected to no one. The Scotty connection wasn't revealed until right before she left, right? Why was so much focus placed on this malcontent?

I think Vanessa was obviously one of the most stunning women I have ever seen from first sight, but I do find her initial scenes a little stilted.  You can tell she's a bit nervous and very green, but she still had instant charisma. I think once she relaxes into the role after about a month or so she's clearly so much better.  Once Vanessa truly finds Brenda's groove about a year in she's clearly a star even in a teen story.

With Karen I could not agree more.  She never was happy.  Obviously the trauma of her entire life didn't help, but she was so sad all the time and it bothered me she never really stood up to Brenda.  Bitchy comments aren't standing your ground.  Everytime Brenda did something to her she just waited for someone else to save her (Jagger/Jason/Robin).  She wasn't a great heroine and her story was so dark although I think she could have been built into one if CS stayed.  I believe Scotty was revealed as her father right before she left, but I could be wrong. 

1 minute ago, carolineg said:

I think Vanessa was obviously one of the most stunning women I have ever seen from first sight, but I do find her initial scenes a little stilted.  You can tell she's a bit nervous and very green, but she still had instant charisma. I think once she relaxes into the role after about a month or so she's clearly so much better.  Once Vanessa truly finds Brenda's groove about a year in she's clearly a star even in a teen story.

Maybe I'm comparing her to some of the younger actors we have now who takes years to get halfway decent (ahem Eden McCoy). Of course the benefited from a lot more rehearsal time back then but even still there was a ton more dialogue and blocking to remember back in the day.

Just now, Darn said:

Maybe I'm comparing her to some of the younger actors we have now who takes years to get halfway decent (ahem Eden McCoy). Of course the benefited from a lot more rehearsal time back then but even still there was a ton more dialogue and blocking to remember back in the day.

I do think Vanessa specifically mentioned she worked with John Homa a lot on her acting.  I think Homa is still around, but I am not sure the current actors utilize him or even have time to.  I think soaps were much more cutthroat and competitive back then.   People worked to be better because they could be replaced.  Eden has been playing this role since she was 14 with little improvement and still gets tons of accolades.  She's not in danger of being replaced and gets rewarded even if she is mediocre at best.