Reilly on DAYS - a renewed appreciation

[carolineg]

She acted like his new wife for a minute there.  It was so icky. 

I have never been clear on the Roman/Marlena timeline of raising the twins because the show never clarified and it's weird with the SORASing, but how much time did Sami actually spend with Roman raising her?  They were in Colorado for awhile too.  We saw John raising those kids for years, so it's just strange she had such a strong attachment to Roman.

[Khan]

Sami's attachment to Roman over John never made sense to me either.  From what I remember, it was John, and not Roman, who virtually raised Sami.  If anything, Sami and Roman's relationship needed to be more complicated, with Roman fighting to regain prominence in Sami's life, and Sami resisting out of a sense of loyalty or devotion to the man (John) who'd been there for her formative years.

[carolineg]

I think Carrie was playing that role of being more attached to John than Roman, which makes sense since she was older and probably remembered things more clearly.

It just very confusing because I guess we as the viewers are left to believe Roman did raise Sami for longer than we saw onscreen.  

Sami actually was pretty close to John when she was first SORAS'ed though.  They were shown to have a pretty good relationship before the affair.

[Khan]

But, when the affair happened, I felt that Sami, at the very least, should have been more torn between supporting/defending John and supporting Roman's need to have his family back.  Instead, it seemed as if Sami immediately blamed John for breaking up the family -- which, again, seemed strange to me, because, in a way, John was her family.

(Actually, it was a perfect opportunity for Roman to turn into a darker, more complicated character -- after all, how would you feel if you found out that another man had assumed your identity for years -- had, in fact, slept with your wife, raised your children, formed close and personal relationships with your parents and siblings -- with no one raising any eyebrows? -- with him becoming more Stefano-like, demanding that his daughters be loyal only to him; and Sami and Carrie unsure over whether to support Marlena staying with Roman out of some sense of duty, or "following her heart" and going back to John after Isabella's death.  But, whatevs.)

Yeah, it's as if JER and his team either didn't know or didn't care that, technically speaking, John was a bigger presence in Sami's early years than Roman had been.  Just one more reason why I basically never cared for JER's simplistic take on DAYS.

And as for Carrie...?  Well, like you said, she was older and remembered more clearly.  If anyone needed to show loyalty to Roman, it needed to be Carrie, because she was old enough to remember him with Marlena.

[carolineg]

There is definitely a way your scenario could have worked as well.  I am not sure I would like Roman as a darker character though.  It certainly would have helped the characters staying power to perhaps manipulate Marlena into staying with him knowing she was in love with John.  More of a grey situation than truly villianous.  I'd be pissed and resentful too if I were Roman. Roman was already looking bad with just his behavior before/during/after the affair, so why not?

Carrie should have been more teamRoman, but CC had a long established relationship/chemistry with Drake as her father so it worked that they would just naturally be closer.  They always had such a lovely relationship.  Plus, I don't think that weird, bratty TM version of Carrie ever felt like she liked Roman or anyone lol.

Obviously, the whole Sami stuff and seeing John/Marlena was just a plot point to make Sami evil.  It was just a disservice to the viewers because

1. the Roman/Marlena timeline of raising them was so unclear-they were a 'family' maybe a year

2. There was very little onscreen bond established between AS/WN as father and daughter before the affair

3. I am not sure why it would be the end of the world for her if John/Marlena ended up together vs. Roman/Marlena.  It wasn't like John was a weird stranger.  He raised her as a single parent for years-which he never got much credit for.  Like, the twins would have been orphans without him.

4. It really would have helped if Eric were around as well to maybe balance out Sami's obsession with Roman and make him closer to John.

Anyhow, I have more praise than complaints over Sami's descent into bad girl, but it does seem like a bit of an overreaction given the history we watched onscreen.

[Khan]

Well, it definitely would have been jarring for many to watch, lol.  But, to me, one of two things needed to result from the Two Romans saga: either John shifts into villain/anti-hero mode (which I suggested upthread), or Roman does.  Because, IMO, a retcon that massive required showing a character, or characters, in a completely different, but well-motivated, light.  John and Marlena's affair/Belle's conception?  That's...okay, but nothing really changes from that except the towels in the bathroom.  John, Marlena and Roman are essentially unchanged after the affair -- which is why it worked better as justification for Sami turning into a total bitch than it did anything else.

PLUS...think about it: having Roman slowly go mad and turning more and more into the man he spent his career trying to take down...?  I'm not saying I would have wanted Roman to become another, cartoonish supervillain like Stefano -- we'd still have to have hope for redemption somewhere down the road, or else Roman's gonna end up like Sam Reynolds on SEARCH FOR TOMORROW -- but that would have been an ironic transformation too delicious not to play.

[titan1978]

Even in the midst of the affair storyline, there are scenes with John and Sami where he brings up the fact that he raised her.  They have a conversation about it when they return Belle, and John gives Sami a few days to tell Marlena and Roman it was her.  And AS plays the beats of having some feelings for him.

In my rewatch, she really starts to hate John when he tells them she was behind the kidnapping because she won’t.  Before that she wasn’t happy with John exactly, but most of her rage was directed at Marlena.  I even think part of the weird relationship was based on Marlena always calling her out on her issues and behavior, and Roman was more reluctant to (which to me is subtext because he missed out on most of the twin’s childhoods), so she leaned into that relationship.

When John reveals her secret, she begins to talk about hating him, and never forgiving him.  Sami is a horrible brat, and betrayal to her is not colluding in her schemes.

John is basically still Roman during the period of Reilly I just finished, which shows they needed to do something to make them their own characters.  Yes, he lost Isabella and his life as Roman, but his personality is still lighter.  It isn’t until Stefano starts toying with him before Maison Blanche and then after that story that he starts to become more the John Black as we know him.  More angst, the growly voice, more serious and less lighthearted.

Edited December 6, 2021 by titan1978

[Khan]

And exactly where does this pathological behavior stem from?  That's always been my $64,000 question for Samantha Gene Brady.  Some blame it on the fact that she was raped by Alan Harris, but I'm like, "As awful as being raped can be for anyone, young or old, male or female, this goes way deeper than being raped."  And you can't blame the selfishness and narcissism on Roman not being there for her childhood, because, as far as everyone was concerned, John was Roman.  She had a father -- and a single father at that -- raising her.  So, is Sami the way she is, because Marlena was absent for most of her young life?  Is that it?  You have to explain it to me, DAYS, like I'm a damn five-year-old.  Otherwise, I'm just gonna think this brat is (still) bratty because that is what the plot requires.

(See also: Heather Grant Webber, GH.)

Edited December 6, 2021 by Khan

[carolineg]

Well, I think Wayne could have pulled it off as opposed to Drake playing John as bad.  I totally think the motivation would be there for Roman with just the fact he was held captive for 7 years and a man took over his life with pretty much no questions asked lol.  I think it's a very interesting idea, but JER/SA seemed to want to focus on the lovestory aspect moreso than the personal effect it had on Roman/John.  The whole triangle/quad was practically dropped for a year, so I actually was surprised when they brought the John/Marlena relationship back.

I do think the affair changed Marlena/Roman/John more than towels in the bathroom.  It put a chink in John and especially Marlena's perfection that took her years to recover from.   Because honestly they had sex twice and people acted like John/Marlena were meeting at the local Motel6 for years lol.

Well, it's also annoying Marlena (and John to a lesser degree) let Sami manipulate them into keeping the affair a secret.  I am not even sure why these two adults let Sami dictate their lives. 

And seriously, Roman let Sami treat Marlena like crap before and after he learned of the affair.  He didn't nothing to help the situation at all and seem to enjoy Sami being horrible to her own mother. 

[titan1978]

And she was acting out/manipulative long before Alan raped her!  There is a progression, but it’s like two years from just bratty teen, to manipulative, to kidnapping and then trying to make Austin her baby daddy.  As a character, she blames the affair for almost everything.  But in truth, maybe she is just pathological.

Watching it recently, it is pretty clear Marlena knows it will end her marriage to Roman and that he will feel betrayed in a way that he may not recover.  I think she keeps the secret as much for her as for Sami.  And Roman absolutely does not stick up for her enough, only calling Sami out a couple of times.

[carolineg]

I don't think the show explained it, but maybe the trauma of her mom dying, her dad having a new face, her mom coming back, the dad she thought was her dad her entire life not being her dad, and a new guy with the original face being her actual dad might have f*cked her up.  Also, she was always sent away to Colorado for long periods. Plus, people liked Carrie better.  

And she had to watch her mom have sex with her non-dad on a conference table.  It's traumatic I think.  Not enough for the 25 years of bitching she's done about it but enough at the time.

Edited December 6, 2021 by carolineg

[Khan]

Honestly, what Sami needed, and still needs, is for Maeve Ryan to sit her ass down and give her a good, long, talking to.

[carolineg]

I felt like Sami was absolutely manipulating the situation.  Yeah, Roman might divorce Marlena, but you think falsifying paternity tests and kidnapping was going to help.  She went from troubled to criminal in 0 to 60.  Plus, as a rape victim herself has she ever taken ownership of raping Austin?

[titan1978]

Her story trajectory with Austin was very gross.  She taught herself science to fake that paternity test lol.  Only on DAYS and under Reilly’s pen does any of this work.  It was stupid but certainly entertaining!

[Khan]

No, because "men don't get raped."

But seriously.  Even Sheri Anderson, Leah Laiman and Thom Racina took time out during those hectic days of far-flung adventures to make us understand why this-or-that character was doing what they were doing at the moment.  It probably wasn't as deep as anything Harding Lemay wrote on ANOTHER WORLD; in fact, I know it wasn't, lol.  But not once did I ever watch and ask, "Now, why in God's name are they doing that!?".  As romance-focused as they were, they still tried to make it make sense.  JER didn't.  It was just, "Ooooooooh, chile, did you just see Carrie slap the [!@#$%^&*] outta Sami!?!?!?".