I would say DALLAS started JTS the season after JR and Bobby fought for EO. they started repeating SLs, but I still loved it. but the last 4 seasons? DREADFUL. most of the cast was gone, replaced by lousy characters and JR was turned into a buffoon.

DYNASTY: when the opening credits are longer than an episode....and it just became horrible. the MWDM was great, but as Gordon Thompson said, the payoff almost killed the series. 

TBBT: that show IMPO should have went off 5 seasons ago. 

LHOTP:  they just seemed like they lost their spark. there still were some great episodes here and there, but by the end, it was a shadow of its glory days, although I still love The Last Farewell. 

DAYS: James Reilly and Ken Corday. Enough Said.

THE KING OF QUEENS: the first 5 season were great, but the four turned Doug into a 50-year-old child, Carrie into an evil shrew, and Arthus was even more crazy than he was in the first seasons. but he just got out of hand. no one IMO was likeable at all by the end, and it showed. no wonder it was canceled.

38 minutes ago, Roman said:

I would say DALLAS started JTS the season after JR and Bobby fought for EO. they started repeating SLs, but I still loved it. but the last 4 seasons? DREADFUL. most of the cast was gone, replaced by lousy characters and JR was turned into a buffoon.

 

The last good season of Dallas was 1987-1988 season. Fans still tuned in to the fall of 1988 to see if JR had died after Sue Ellen shot him.  The 1988-1989 season had a few good episodes...the usual Oil Barrons Ball and Sue Ellen laughing at JR marrying Callie and trying to sabotage in a fun way their marriage. Dallas should've ended in 1990. I think it lasted one too many years. The ratings totally eroded in the final season. The Susan Lucci episodes kept the audience amused for a bit along with her shooting April. 

Edited November 20, 20187 yr by Soapsuds

1 hour ago, Roman said:

 the MWDM was great, but as Gordon Thompson said, the payoff almost killed the series.

 

What payoff?

 

The final season of DALLAS smelled of desperation.  At the time, there seemed to be so many "Special Guest Stars" (Susan Lucci!  Barbara Eden!  Joel Grey!) that it threatened to turn into "The Love Boat."

 

Speaking of TLB, when episodes became more like travelogues, you knew the end was nigh.

3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

--ALL IN THE FAMILY turning into ARCHIE BUNKER'S PLACE: Grim depressing, lethargic, not funny at all.

 

Carroll O'Connor had a tremendously negative influence on those two shows (and on "In the Heat of the Night").  The more power he exerted BTS, the less entertaining the shows became.

 

Similarly, Andy Griffith assuming more and more control over "Matlock" turned an already journeyman "detective" series into one, gigantic, homespun bore.

Edited November 20, 20187 yr by Khan

3 hours ago, mango said:

Cheers - It was tough to recreate the spark of Shelley Long.

 

Perhaps.  OTOH, mango, Long's departure might have been a blessing in disguise.  Her leaving certainly didn't hurt the show's ratings.  Also, her departure meant that Sam and Diane's on-again, off-again romance would no longer be front-and-center in the storylines, thus allowing the writers to develop the rest of the ensemble, including Frasier, Woody, Carla, Cliff, Norm, and even Lilith and newcomer Rebecca.

 

People forget, too, that "Cheers" ran longer without Diane (and achieved higher ratings) than it did with her.

Edited November 20, 20187 yr by Khan

33 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Perhaps.  OTOH, mango, Long's departure might have been a blessing in disguise.  Her leaving certainly didn't hurt the show's ratings.  Also, her departure meant that Sam and Diane's on-again, off-again romance would no longer be front-and-center in the storylines, thus allowing the writers to develop the rest of the ensemble, including Frasier, Woody, Carla, Cliff, Norm, and even Lilith and newcomer Rebecca.

 

 

That's a fair point, Khan. I'll be the first to admit that I tend to gravitate toward characters/actors versus an entire show. And you have to wonder, if Shelley didn't exit, perhaps the growth you mentioned doesn't happen and there would be no Frasier spinoff. 

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

The last good season of Dallas was 1987-1988 season. Fans still tuned in to the fall of 1988 to see if JR had died after Sue Ellen shot him.  The 1988-1989 season had a few good episodes...the usual Oil Barrons Ball and Sue Ellen laughing at JR marrying Callie and trying to sabotage in a fun way their marriage. Dallas should've ended in 1990. I think it lasted one too many years. The ratings totally eroded in the final season. The Susan Lucci episodes kept the audience amused for a bit along with her shooting April. 

well, I see what you're saying and agree (wow we agree!), but for me, the season you named was the last great season they had. the Jock SL ( I still believe that was JE) and the entire season was great, but after Pam's car accident, the next season opener just fell flat. from then on, other than certain episodes or scenes (like when JR read Jock's letter to him) it just was crap. the last season they were on fumes. now they were looking for one last season at the time. the next season would have ended the series, but CBS and Lorimar felt with ratings in the toilet and the production costs, not to mention the salaries the cast was making, they called it quits. there was no where else for them to go.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

 

What payoff?

 

The final season of DALLAS smelled of desperation.  At the time, there seemed to be so many "Special Guest Stars" (Susan Lucci!  Barbara Eden!  Joel Grey!) that it threatened to turn into "The Love Boat."

 

Speaking of TLB, when episodes became more like travelogues, you knew the end was nigh.

 

Carroll O'Connor had a tremendously negative influence on those two shows (and on "In the Heat of the Night").  The more power he exerted BTS, the less entertaining the shows became.

 

Similarly, Andy Griffith assuming more and more control over "Matlock" turned an already journeyman "detective" series into one, gigantic, homespun bore.

 

two incidental characters were killed, and no one else. they got home and never mentioned that SL again. and then we had the fake Amanda, a lady who was found working at a McDonald's and got the part, and just ended up being so bad they wrote her off and never mentioned her again. didn't Blake and Alexis go back to saying they only had three kids after that?

Aaron Spelling should have given Catherine Oxenberg that 2500 an episode raise she wanted

so I'm not the only one who thinks ITHOTN went to crap after the first 5 seasons? they had a great cliffhanger, when Joe Don Baker's character got shot, and the season opener had Tibbs' wife being raped with Gillespie already back?! and why? because Carroll wanted that episode first instead of the resolution to the cliffhanger. 

1 minute ago, John said:

Aaron Spelling should have given Catherine Oxenberg that 2500 an episode raise she wanted

hold on....that's all she wanted? and she got replaced for that?

 

One Tree Hill, after the first few seasons I was over it. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Roman said:

well, I see what you're saying and agree (wow we agree!), but for me, the season you named was the last great season they had. the Jock SL ( I still believe that was JE) and the entire season was great, but after Pam's car accident, the next season opener just fell flat. from then on, other than certain episodes or scenes (like when JR read Jock's letter to him) it just was crap. the last season they were on fumes. now they were looking for one last season at the time. the next season would have ended the series, but CBS and Lorimar felt with ratings in the toilet and the production costs, not to mention the salaries the cast was making, they called it quits. there was no where else for them to go.

 

To be honest Dallas should've ended the same year Dynasty did because without Sue Ellen the show was dull as hell. There was nothing left after 1989. But Dallas was still doing well in the ratings which Dynasty wasn't anymore. 

 

I like the JR vs Sue Ellen again...yes it was a repeat of the Holly story but that's what made Dallas Dallas.....JR and Sue Ellen...their love hate marriage....I refer to JR sleeping with Kimberly Cryder(sp?) to get Wistar(sp?) and gain control of it. I loved that Sue Ellen stuck it to him by siding with Kimberly and bringing back Wendall.

 

They also brought Morgan Brittany back only to waste her on a two episode visit.......

 

Oh and I hated Sue Ellen's send off.....a damn movie reel and leaves with the ugliest man in Dallas.....lawd....

Edited November 20, 20187 yr by Soapsuds

13 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

To be honest Dallas should've ended the same year Dynasty did because without Sue Ellen the show was dull as hell. There was nothing left after 1989. But Dallas was still doing well in the ratings which Dynasty wasn't anymore. 

 

I like the JR vs Sue Ellen again...yes it was a repeat of the Holly story but that's what made Dallas Dallas.....JR and Sue Ellen...their love hate marriage....I refer to JR sleeping with Kimberly Cryder(sp?) to get Wistar(sp?) and gain control of it. I loved that Sue Ellen stuck it to him by siding with Kimberly and bringing back Wendall.

 

They also brought Morgan Brittany back only to waste her on a two episode visit.......

 

Oh and I hated Sue Ellen's send off.....a damn movie reel and leaves with the ugliest man in Dallas.....lawd....

 

I thought Dallas should have ended after 1987 because you lost Pam.  Pam vs JR was always fascinating to me

5 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

I thought Dallas should have ended after 1987 because you lost Pam.  Pam vs JR was always fascinating to me

The ratings were still too good to cancel it. They were pulling in a 23.1 HH rating. I didn't mind the recast of Pam in the Michaels lady...her first name escapes me...she looked like Victoria Principal and the scenes she had with Cliff and the doctor were very good.

Edited November 20, 20187 yr by Soapsuds

1 hour ago, Roman said:

so I'm not the only one who thinks ITHOTN went to crap after the first 5 seasons? they had a great cliffhanger, when Joe Don Baker's character got shot, and the season opener had Tibbs' wife being raped with Gillespie already back?! and why? because Carroll wanted that episode first instead of the resolution to the cliffhanger. 

hold on....that's all she wanted? and she got replaced for that?

 

yep a 2500.00 an episode raise

Wasn't she a diva on set too and that's why they fired her too?

Falcon Crest

The final couple of seasons where Kristian Alfonso was front and center and most of the originals were gone.