12 hours ago, Brick Flair said:

It did indeed end in 2002. However, In 1998 Fox bought out the affiliates Interest in Fox Kids to help pay for their NFL deal and thus cut the block 2 hours in response. I wanna say it eventually went Saturday only before 2002 but I could be wrong 

Most children's programming went to Saturdays until about 4-6 years ago when they decided to get rid of cartoons all together 

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 4:54 PM, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

I don't think SORASing is an issue if done correctly. The problem with soaps is that they'll showcase kids one week and send them off to return as teens another. There needs to be more time (as in months) before introducing a SORASED character. 

 

I do think that soaps need to break away from being so damn conservative. I agree that if this show is gonna occur in LA that sex and drugs should play a heavy hand on the show. It boggles my mind how Steffy, Liam, Ivy, Wyatt, Thomas, etc. don't engage in actions that many twenty-somethings do. 

 

Marriage isn't something that twenty-somethings should not be uttering too. As you pointed out, marriage is on the decline nowadays, and most people find the institution outdated. That along with women wanting babies. Most women don't even discuss that until they are in their 30s and are established.

 

What soaps need to change (and I say this all the time) is coming on 5 days a week. That's where the genre is hurting. Most people don't even watch the full week of episodes nowadays. Most watch 2-3 at the most b/c some days are filled with filler mess. Soaps need to come on Mon, Wed, and Fri. That way the stories will be tighter and encourage the writers to be half-assed. Soaps here also need to take hiatuses or have finales like Aussie soaps do. From late Dec to mid Jan, soaps need to be off the air. That'll give everyone on the show time to rejuvenate. 

 

Soaps also need to revert back to realism. It is sad that primetime is banking big on shows like This Is Us, which is a soap. Classic human emotion and pathos is enough for soaps to gain viewers. Also, soaps need to rip stories from the headlines again. Soaps used to lead the charge in social issues, and be daring while doing so. Now, social issues on soaps are so PC and handled with kids gloves that nobody is gonna take anything away from those stories. 

Wonderful post!

 

This genre has needed something (or someone) to come in and shake it up for years now. They do the same tired storylines over and over again until the ratings are circling the drain, then in an effort to save the show the network brings in the same old tired writers from a different show that was almost cancelled. Daytime needs some new writers who wont be afraid to take risks. General Hospital would have never become the household name it was in the 80's if GM had been too afraid to pair up Luke with Laura. Looking back it may have been insensitive and probably wasn't the best thing to showcase, but it worked! These soaps need to realize that some controversy may do them some good.

 

I don't think it would be too hard to come up with new material. People working in soaps should take the time to watch Scandal or HTGAWM or Grey's Anatomy (from years ago, not the new stuff). There are so many soapy shows in primetime right now that are doing very well. If daytime would write those types of stories, get rid of the actors that give daytime a bad name (and there are a lot currently on air), and cut the taping schedule down. Nothin'ButAttitude's idea to show soaps three days a week is brilliant. Old fans (and maybe some new viewers) will watch if it isn't as much of a commitment. The five days a week is over and done, nobody really has the time or patience for that anymore (myself included and I have been a soap fan for over 40 years!) Cutting down the number of episodes will not only make it easier for many to watch, but it will make it easier on the actors who will have more time to memorize their lines (and there are some who NEED this break) and it will give them more time to redo scenes if need be so it doesn't have to be one and done.

 

Honestly, I think airing 5 times a week is the very definition of soap opera. Granted, the shows should be shorter. I'd rather have them take a Summer hiatus or something.

1 hour ago, cassadine1991 said:

Most children's programming went to Saturdays until about 4-6 years ago when they decided to get rid of cartoons all together 

Very true. The broadcast networks waved the white flag to Cartoon Network's Toonami block (which ironically went from almost getting cancelled to slow burning into a ratings juggernaut when they got Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon) and Nickelodeon's afternoon offerings. 

 

 

Back on topic: I'm in agreeance with @All My Shadows that the remaining 4 should be nuked and from there you can start over. This is extremely unpopular opinion, but the biggest chance CBS/NBC/ABC had to do this was in the great soap purge of 2008-2011. There was opportunity to start over with a clean slate and maybe begin new daytime soaps with new rules (like as stated by @Nothin'ButAttitude airing only part of the week, all back to 30 mins, only airing certain times a year, etc) that could grow into something special.

 

Only issues with that was the (understandably) irate fans of the previously canceled soaps would've been angry at whatever replaced them (see ATWT and The Talk). If the networks could weather the storm to today, they could weather the storm in this case also especially if the networks owned the new crop of soaps. The networks also would have to go through the growing pains of waiting for the ratings to build for the new shows while not panicking

 

Maybe it'd take the networks giving some young writers a chance with a dope show concept to really shake things up. Seems the networks rather keep Old Yeller than try new blood

 

Daytimes current issues remind me of WWE's current issues and the unwilling to correct these issues 

Edited July 6, 20178 yr by Brick Flair

5 minutes ago, Aback said:

Honestly, I think airing 5 times a week is the very definition of soap opera. Granted, the shows should be shorter. I'd rather have them take a Summer hiatus or something.

 

Just b/c it is the definition of a US soap doesn't mean it should remain a staple. People don't have time to commit to shows 5 days a week anymore. Again, 3 days is enough, and it'll force the writers to writer tight, concise material and not give us filler bulls--t 2-3 days out of the 5. A summer or winter hiatus will also provide us with the chance to decompress from the show and not tire from them so much. 

 

Soaps have to adapt. They can no longer rely on tropes from 50 years ago. The entire entertainment had changed. They better get with it or get left in the dust. 

Who would be open to novela style soaps? 13 weeks, mostly closed ended, but maybe with a few regular characters. Or set in the same soap universe.

20 minutes ago, SteelCity said:

Who would be open to novela style soaps? 13 weeks, mostly closed ended, but maybe with a few regular characters. Or set in the same soap universe.

Maybe set in the same universe with each other 

I'm going to list some things, and yes, several have already been touched upon so this will just signify my agreement.

 

First of all, I think daytime should go to the Sept-May season with a break over the holidays (Weds before Thanksgiving until second week of January). This will give writers/producers breaks to actually plot out stories by season with beginnings and ends. Then, be able to add a cliffhanger twists like primetime soaps of old and current shows like Grey's and Scandal. (It would also allow actors to line up "summer projects" where they can do work outside of daytime without contract restrictions and possibly be willing to stay on the shows for longer periods.) More "name" actors could be enticed to do a "season" for a particular story. This will also end the stupidity of "teen stories" in the summer that just annoy regular watchers. Teens most likely aren't sitting around their television sets in the summer to catch an ep of Days or Y&R and suddenly get hooked. If they want to check out a show they will probably do it online  or through some other means first. I think this would kind of make a traditional soap and novella hybrid.

 

End cliches: End Soras-ing. End the constant back-from-the dead stories. End the evil twin/look-a-like stories just to facilitate returns. End the constant revolving doors of marriages for characters (B&B for sure! you can't invest in a couple that you know will only last two or three months before they are each on to someone else.) End the constant pregnancies of characters whom are pregnant from "an affair" or "one-night stand" to cause drama for couples. It's boring and been done thousands of times on daytime already and then leaves some characters with kids from three or four different partners. 

 

Bring in real stories (as people have suggested). True drug addict stories and not just a pill addiction that lasts through ONE sweeps month and the character is suddenly rehabbed never to mention it again but the struggle of a family being caught between wanting to help and enabling an addict. People losing their jobs, becoming financially strapped, and losing their homes, lifestyle, while trying to hide it from family and friends because they are embarrassed. Bring on gay couples, male and female, raising children with the backlash from some in the community who don't approve. Bring on social media bullying. Suicide. Someone having a work related shooting. (Imagine if Cane on Y&R goes "crazy" and goes back to the Jabot building to get revenge on his former employer/co-workers. Would be grounded in more "reality" than the Moldavian Massacre on Dynasty.) Personally, I'd rather a show be slammed by critics for being too real than too "soapy". 

 

I would also cut down on "spoilers". I miss the old days of good, jaw-dropping moments that I didn't see coming at all. It seems now everything that is going to happen on a show is known months in advance (and in Days' case through 2018). Keep the suspense and get people talking about the surprises they just saw. ABC'S #TGIT is a great example of having those moments. (And tying in with that...these shows need far better social media outreach! Do they even have promotion departments anymore? How hard could it be to get some interns or such without pay or for little pay to come aboard and be part of the production by being social media employees? Tweeting during live shows, creating daily hashtags, etc.) #PulledASheila #ShankAnAbbott #DeadDeimos 

 

 

18 minutes ago, cassadine1991 said:

Maybe set in the same universe with each other 

Sort of like how the P&G soaps all were in the same world. To the point that you could have a hot shot lawyer from one soap defend a character on another without disturbing the canvas. It would create an organic flow between the series as well.

I actually don't think content is as much of the problem as others do. A lot of daytime's cliched stories are thriving in primetime and other formats on a less repetitive scale. There's less repetition because there aren't 250 episodes made each year.

 

Anything that wants to be successful in daytime just needs to accept that its core audience will be smaller than in the past, older and possibly more conservative (but not necessarily). There is absolutely nothing new or inventive about the daytime talk and game shows that are considered successes, yet they are as successful as they can be. Producing new daytime programming purposely geared towards anyone between 15 and 35 is duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumb and a destined failure.

18 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

FOX tried a daytime soap aimed at teens in 1990 ("Tribes"), and it did not last. They wisely decided to go in the direction of filling their daytime lineup with syndicated talk shows, courtroom shows, and game shows. They would've been fools to ditch that in favor of a soap because, as has been established, young people are not going to watch daytime in droves.

 

I have this late, not-so-great series on VHS, and its terrible writing and generally weak cast did it in. Had it been well made and successful, I wonder what FOX daytime would look like today.

I have always been craving a daily soap on FOX. I agree, Sunset Beach would've been great on that network.

I still want to believe that a cable station could do a successful soap five-days-a-week  where the ratings don't have to be as high. A small cast of 10-12 people with good writing and a "seasonal" approach could work. Maybe three different shows could alternate during the year: Show One Jan thru April, Show Two May thru August, and Show Three September thru December. Then repeat each year. With shows doing 10 episode seasons (Think Bates Motel) becoming the norm then a show doing four month seasons might be an alternative. 

 

3 hours ago, SteelCity said:

Who would be open to novela style soaps? 13 weeks, mostly closed ended, but maybe with a few regular characters. Or set in the same soap universe.

 

By close ended are you talking about the story and characters will change after 13 weeks like traditional novelas do? If so, nope. I love the continuing facet of US soaps. 

 

11 minutes ago, SteelCity said:

I have always been craving a daily soap on FOX. I agree, Sunset Beach would've been great on that network.

 

If I am not mistaken, wasn't FOX rumored to do a daily soap starring A. Martinez and produced by Simon Fuller or Mal Young (can't remember which) called Born in the USA back in the mid '00s? 

 

2 hours ago, Melroser said:

First of all, I think daytime should go to the Sept-May season with a break over the holidays (Weds before Thanksgiving until second week of January). This will give writers/producers breaks to actually plot out stories by season with beginnings and ends. Then, be able to add a cliffhanger twists like primetime soaps of old and current shows like Grey's and Scandal. (It would also allow actors to line up "summer projects" where they can do work outside of daytime without contract restrictions and possibly be willing to stay on the shows for longer periods.) More "name" actors could be enticed to do a "season" for a particular story. This will also end the stupidity of "teen stories" in the summer that just annoy regular watchers. Teens most likely aren't sitting around their television sets in the summer to catch an ep of Days or Y&R and suddenly get hooked. If they want to check out a show they will probably do it online  or through some other means first. I think this would kind of make a traditional soap and novella hybrid.

 

I do think that teens will watch dramas during the summer if they are compelling. Look at Degrassi. However, I feel like it'll need to be a digital platform to entice young teens. Young teens are more drawn to streaming services than they are actual TV. 

 

2 hours ago, Melroser said:

End cliches: End Soras-ing. End the constant back-from-the dead stories. End the evil twin/look-a-like stories just to facilitate returns. End the constant revolving doors of marriages for characters (B&B for sure! you can't invest in a couple that you know will only last two or three months before they are each on to someone else.) End the constant pregnancies of characters whom are pregnant from "an affair" or "one-night stand" to cause drama for couples. It's boring and been done thousands of times on daytime already and then leaves some characters with kids from three or four different partners. 

 

Again, I don't think SORASing is a problem when done correctly. People will overlook it if it is done right. That's why I a firm believer that kids in soaps (well most of them) should only be brought out during holidays and sent to the "soap closet" the remainder of the time. Just out sight and out of mind, which'll make it easier to age them. Only time I don't think kids should be aged on soaps is if you have a breakout child star on your hands like Rachel Miner and Bryan Buffington were on GL. Or Kim McCullough was on GH. Or even as currently, Brooklyn Silzer is on GH. Let them age in real time. 

 

I agree with all your other points though. Marriages in soaps need to go back being something serious. People get married on soaps too quickly, and the trigger should only be pulled when necessary. Same with unexpected kids too. 

 

2 hours ago, Melroser said:

Bring in real stories (as people have suggested). True drug addict stories and not just a pill addiction that lasts through ONE sweeps month and the character is suddenly rehabbed never to mention it again but the struggle of a family being caught between wanting to help and enabling an addict. People losing their jobs, becoming financially strapped, and losing their homes, lifestyle, while trying to hide it from family and friends because they are embarrassed. Bring on gay couples, male and female, raising children with the backlash from some in the community who don't approve. Bring on social media bullying. Suicide. Someone having a work related shooting. (Imagine if Cane on Y&R goes "crazy" and goes back to the Jabot building to get revenge on his former employer/co-workers. Would be grounded in more "reality" than the Moldavian Massacre on Dynasty.) Personally, I'd rather a show be slammed by critics for being too real than too "soapy". 

 

^

All of this. Soaps need to get back to realism. Leave all that campy, over-the-top mess alone. 

 

2 hours ago, Melroser said:

I would also cut down on "spoilers". I miss the old days of good, jaw-dropping moments that I didn't see coming at all. It seems now everything that is going to happen on a show is known months in advance (and in Days' case through 2018). Keep the suspense and get people talking about the surprises they just saw. ABC'S #TGIT is a great example of having those moments. (And tying in with that...these shows need far better social media outreach! Do they even have promotion departments anymore? How hard could it be to get some interns or such without pay or for little pay to come aboard and be part of the production by being social media employees? Tweeting during live shows, creating daily hashtags, etc.) #PulledASheila #ShankAnAbbott #DeadDeimos 

 

I don't think soap (or any form of medium) will ever be able to cut down on spoilers. Yes, they can in some degree, but stuff will still slip out thanks to loose ships working on these shows. 

46 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I have this late, not-so-great series on VHS, and its terrible writing and generally weak cast did it in. Had it been well made and successful, I wonder what FOX daytime would look like today.

It would probably look exactly the same as it does now since the three networks that had their hands filled with soaps in 1990 currently look a lot like what FOX looks like.
 

20 minutes ago, Melroser said:

I still want to believe that a cable station could do a successful soap five-days-a-week  where the ratings don't have to be as high. A small cast of 10-12 people with good writing and a "seasonal" approach could work. Maybe three different shows could alternate during the year: Show One Jan thru April, Show Two May thru August, and Show Three September thru December. Then repeat each year. With shows doing 10 episode seasons (Think Bates Motel) becoming the norm then a show doing four month seasons might be an alternative. 

The only thing I can see this possibly being successful with is Tyler Perry's OWN soaps. I don't watch them, but they do well for the network, and I know for a fact that many of the women in my family who would have once watched traditional daytime soaps are now watching these shows instead. Both shows alternate (one is on from Jan-March and June-Sept while the other is on from April-May and Oct-Nov). Sometimes I hear a cousin or aunt say that they wished the shows would just come on every day, but I doubt anyone is tuning out because the shows aren't on enough. On the contrary, they would most likely lose a good chunk of viewers if suddenly that one episode a week turned into five.