February 13-17, 2006

[King]

I think that means that more Households watched DAYS, but there's less people in those households.

[KBT]

I think you are right King, when DAYS was gaining viewers in December and January the show actually had more overall viewers than GH a few times, but GH would be .1 or .2 higher in the HH numbers. Me personally I would look at the overall viewers, who cares about the HH numbers?

[RogerNewcomb]

I would love to see a major shake up at one of the shows or see a brand new show come along and show them all how it's done. It's sad at a show like ATWT with so many LONG-term actors still alive and wanting to work, would rather focus on new characters played by weak actors like Nick and Jade. Most of the soaps have been on so long they've forgotten what they're supposed to be about. It's like if Desperate Housewives was about doctors and Grey's Anatomy was about housewives. ATWT should be about the Hughes family and people who know them.

There's way too much BAD casting. Watching I Wanna Be a Soap Star tells you exactly what they're looking for - LOOKs over talent.

One big thing for me is that the audience is WAY smarter than the writers of any soap on TV gives them credit. We've watched CSI and Law & Order and we're not stupid. ATWT cures brain tumors in one episode. I would love an outside writer to come on board who truly believed the audience was intelligent and refused to insult it. A day doesn't go by when I don't read "it's only a soap" on some message board. I hate that. It's like I'm supposed to know I'm watching crap and should just accept it.

I think all the casts should be cut so the shows could refocus.

But I don't think TPTB know how to fix this. They are too caught up in producing 300 episodes a year to take a step back and really watch their shows and realize how screwed up they are.

I'm not sure all the podcasting, blogs, interactive stuff is going to help in the long-run, but the quality is so inconsistent going from great some days to garbage on others. Only us diehards will commit to five days a week of this stuff.

[SteveFrame]

I think the advertisers do look at the number of people in the household but only in the sense of the person's age. I know for the 3 years that we were a Nielsen household, we had to keep them informed of any people that entered in the household for any extended period of time. Occassionally we would have to do a diary showing the ages of people watching a particular show at the time, including how long they watched and all. Toward the end of our tenure with them everything was done electronically. It kept up with what time the TV was cut on and off, etc. When we had to turn in paperwork we had to put if we watched the whole, the shows we videotaped, etc. The computer chips that they installed in our TVs, DVDs, and VCRs kept up with when we recorded a program etc.

I say all that to say that each one of us in the household was put into a category. They never said it but each one of the categories in the household had a different importance to the advertisers.

Of course we all know that as we have all heard of the target market for the advertisers. Of course depending on the product they are advertising each advertiser looks at a different demographic.

I remember reading a story years ago that underwear companies like to run their ads especially during programs that women (esp. wives) are watching because according to sales records most men don't buy their own underwear - if they are married their wives do. Of course there are the exceptions to that, but that was the result of a survey. So Fruit of the Loom, Hanes, etc. like to look at shows that are going to have that target audience - at least according to that article. It did say their print ad market was a little different.

So I say all that to say that yes they do look at the numbers in the household, but only after they look at how many households they are getting into.

[KBT]

Well said Roger!

I personally dont care about looks when it comes to watching TV, give me someone who can act first. Looks are nice, but if that person doesnt have the ability to act why cast them over and over and over again, something all soaps have done countless times. It's just sad to watch the soaps decline in quality, when there seems to be so many minor ways to fix a soap, yet fairly easy. Just a few changes here and there and I think some soaps could improve 10 fold. I guess its easy for me to say this as someone who isnt in the industry, but the writing on soaps are horrible.

[King]

I agree, Kirk - very well said, Roger.

If soap writers wrote soaps intelligently like primetime shows, then soaps would be much better off. We're not dumb! Say things with a look or an action. Don't spell E V E R Y T H I N G out to the point of ridiculousness. I know, I know. I watch PSNS and no show is as guilty of that as PSNS. BUT all of daytime could benefit of soap writers just stopped thinking we were morons. It's like watching CHiPs from the 70's.

[PhoenixRising05]

Agreed.

Good numbers for Days. They just need to hang on until the weddings. They might get a small boost for from J&M this coming week. The weddings and all the other action will definitely give them increases. That along with all the other soaps coming down to earth (especially ABC after all the sweeps stunts) should mean good things for Days. Same oges for Passions and the upcoming Vendetta story. That may give them some sort of increase so they just need to hang on for a few weeks. Overall not to bad for NBC.

I love ATWT but even I am showering on it which sucks because I would rather see CBS shows do well then ABC. Nothing against ABC fans but I am sick of the constant sweeps stunts and then the shows getting boring until the next sweeps month. The only soap not guilty of this is OLTL which holds my attention at times but is boring alot lately. AMC needs a new writer because the explosion, while well done, did not have as good a fallout as anticipated IMO. GH is already on the path to suckiness. The Scorpios and recent returns are the only reason why I have been tuning in of late but once they are gone it will be back to the status quo. If it were permanent them I may stick around but its just gonna go back to the Sonny show soon. Even though I hated Courtney, her death sucked. It was forgettable and that is a shock given her connection to Sonny and her front-burner status. The epidemic has been solid, Tony's death was the best part and the only episode where I felt like I was watching the GH of old, but I already am feeling a return to the same old crap.

[SteveFrame]

Very well put Phoenix.

[PhoenixRising05]

Thanks .

[jpoliver78]

Unfortunately, in this current daytime environment, I don't see the soap population increasing by any. If anything, the population will continue to decrease. Both ABC and NBC opted not to introduce new soaps when they canceled "Port Charles" and "Sunset Beach" respectively. Those actions leave only CBS with a full compliment of 4 (or 3.5 hours) of soaps.

My own dire prediction is that CBS will soon join the ranks of ABC and only air 3 hours a day. It is no longer unthinkable that CBS would cancel "Guiding Light", while stretching "The Bold & the Beautiful" to 60 minutes and turning 30 minutes back over to the affiliates. CBS has already canceled the longest-running series on TV once before. In 1983, "Search for Tomorrow" was the longest-running scripted series in TV history when CBS dropped it in favor of the "Dynasty"-inspired "Capitol" (which, in turn, was dumped for "B&B"). "SFT" had debuted just months prior to "GL."

My reasoning is based on the current, and unwise, budget tightening going on at all the soaps. Recent cast defections at the CBS soaps have been blamed on budget constaints.

Unless Fox decides to jump into the daytime arena (and the success or failure of upcoming telenovelas "Secrets" and "Desire" to air on Fox owned and operated affiliates this fall will likely factor into any possible decision), the day of canceling soaps and replacing them with other soaps are over. I'm not sure how serious Fox would be about launching a daytime serial, but whenever cancellation rumors hit NBC's "Days of Our Lives", a possible pick by Fox is always whispered about.

As far as the current cancellation rumors about both "Days" and "Passions", unless NBC decides to totally ditch its daytime dramas, I don't expect either to end - unless the network has potential replacements in development, which it currently doesn't.

[All My Shadows]

See, that's great for a half-hour soap, which is what ATWT was for it's first 20 years, but when it's expanded, you can no longer try to tie every character back to one single family. That's why it was brilliant of Marland to create the Snyders in 1985, but I only wish he would have come around much earlier, so they'd have a deeper history in the show.

One of the things I love about ATWT is that most of the contract characters can tie back to 1985 or earlier, either through relatives or through actually being on the show:

Lily - first appeared in 1984

Margo - first appeared in 1980

Jennifer - daughter of Barbara, who first appeared in 1970

Lisa - first appeared in 1960

Bob - first appeared in 1956

Kim - first appeared in 1972

Hal - first appeared in 1985

Holden - first appeared in 1985

Tom - first appeared in 1960

Paul - first appeared in 1983, also son of Barbara

Lucinda - first appeared in 1983

Dusty - first appeared in 1983

Emily - first appeared in 1975, daughter of Dan and Susan Stewart, major 70s characters

Casey - son of Tom, grandson of Bob, great-grandson of Nancy

Will - son of Barbara, grandson of Jennifer Sullivan

Nancy - first appeared in 1956

Meg - first appeared in 1985

Barbara - first appeared in 1970

That leaves Maddie, Mike, Katie, Henry, Gwen, Jack, Jessica, Carly, and Nick with no pre-1985 connections, but then again, Jack is a Snyder cousin, and Jessica was introduced in 1986. Katie was born onscreen in 1989 and Mike was introduced in 1994.

So really, ATWT by far has the most veteran characters out of all of the soaps. I kinda find that amazing, when you have a show like OLTL, when many of its characters were created in 2000 and later.

[DanielRand]

I agree with most of what you said...this is quite possible. But I offer two caveats:

One, GL is slightly up over last year (it averaged a 2.2 for the 2004 - 2005 season, where it now averages a very solid 2.3). Recent weeks indicate that Total Viewers and Women 18-49 may also be up a bit. Add to that the grievous budget cuts GL was made to take last year (cast, studio, product placements, etc.) and it would seem that GL is garnerning slightly better ratings while costing less to produce. A greater profit margin for CBS and P&G may buy it two more years when renewal time comes later this year.

Two, I have long suspected that if GL is cancelled, ATWT will go with it. Ever notice how P&G has managed to time its last two soaps for renewal at the same time for the past decade? P&G is probably using ATWT as a hostage of sorts to keep GL on the air. If CBS demands that P&G end GL, I see P&G pulling ATWT. It wouldn't be the first time...The Edge of Night was not cancelled by ABC because of low ratings in 1983...P&G pulled the plug despite ABC's willingness to continue. Edge wasn't making enough money for P&G.

P&G is a business...it has divisions, smployees and facilities for its paper towels, deodorants, food, beauty aids, and on and on. And one for its television business (Televest). Would it really keep Televest alive for one daytime soap opera (ATWT)? It may find producing two soaps profitable, but not one.

My personal prediction, if ratings for GL stay around 2.2 - 2.4, and ATWT between 2.5 - 2.7, is that both shows will be renewed through 2009, but GL's budget restrictions will stay in place and ATWT will be forced to undergo what GL did last fall in the way of massive cuts.

And as for Days and Passions? NBC is developing telenovelas for American TV with what I believe is the largest or most successful producer of them in Latin America. Where is NBC going to put these new shows...and what if they outshine the current NBC soaps?

Not happy times for soap fans, unless you watch ABC or the Bell shows! Those will be around for a lot longer, I bet. Tune in tomorrow.

[jpoliver78]

I agree with the points you made concerning "As the World Turns" and "Guiding Light". It was also interesting to hear that Proctor & Gamble essentially cannibalized "The Edge of Night". I had always assumed its cancellation was due to it attracting an older audience (never a good thing in the youth-obsessed TV industry) and declining ratings. Very interesting, and unfortunate for the genre.

However, I believe another option could exist if CBS decides to cancel "Guiding Light". (Also, I hope no current soap gets canceled - unless it is replaced by a new soap first.) For many years, CBS has fought P&G for more control over ATWT and GL over issues such as veto power over stories and the hiring of producers and writers. If CBS was insistant that it wanted to cancel GL, then the network could buy ATWT from P&G and produce it through its own television production division. Also, since it didn't seem like P&G pulled out all the stops to save "Another World" from cancellation by NBC several years back, I don't know if P&G would necessarily oppose such a scenario.

As far as the NBC telenovela news, according to Entertainment Pres. Kevin Reilly, the network intends to air them in primetime. ABC and CBS also have novelas in development. CBS has indicated one or two novelas could air twice a week this summer for 13 weeks (26 episiodes). ABC hasn't indicated its preference, but is likely to join CBS with a summer launch. All telenovelas only last about 3-6 months, so if NBC decides to drop "Days" and "Passions" in favor of novelas, the network will have to revamp them to make them more like American soaps (i.e. airing for many years) or be constantly introducing new soaps.