Bravo teameric I so appreciate this. It's completely out of line for people to attack my pov. Just because I said we should move on doesn't mean u have to. Really I will say I loved oltl more then anyone was angry it was cancelled two and half years ago and cried its final day. I was burned by pp once but second time I tried watching it. The show was beyond Terrible with wasted vets galore, no real coherent stories and a bunch of awful teens. When pp shelves it makes sense they have no money and the show was a ratings loser and complete apathy. Then the jean p nobody can rate her yet until we see her work. Let's embrace different povs.

Edited September 19, 201312 yr by JONNYSBRO

I'm a bit worried about even saying this but... While I think overall AMC was the stronger show--and I think it still has more name recognition, AND I know Oprah has a very wide ranging fanbase--could the fact that AMC focused so much on a beloved black couple (Linda--please don't come back) play a part?

I can't help but think that played at least a bit of a factor. Also, people watching OWN are obviously fans of Oprah. Oprah has a history with AMC and a love of J&A. I think there's a lot of synergy there. Conversely, Frons/OLTL threw away both the black AND LGBT audience in the last few years and I didn't see much in the discussion about the show that would lead me to believe OLTL 2.0 offered a remedy to that. That said, I think OLTL would've performed much better on Bravo or even FX.

Edited September 20, 201312 yr by marceline

Interesting--they seem to both rise and fall at the same time (albeit with OLTL lower) though right at the end they seem to be evening out.

I'm a bit worried about even saying this but... While I think overall AMC was the stronger show--and I think it still has more name recognition, AND I know Oprah has a very wide ranging fanbase--could the fact that AMC focused so much on a beloved black couple (Linda--please don't come back) play a part?

Considering soaps main audience is black, I do think that is something that will always help any soap. Not pursuing a black audience or a gay/lesbian audience is a HUGE mistake that most soaps make. I think Prospect Park missed the boat with both shows not featuring a gay or lesbian story. That's why I get so upset with how AMC handled Bianca. She was the gay Erica and they didn't use her popularity to it's full extent. They should've recast or kept Marissa alive so we could get some romance while Bianca was around, then you'd still have a prominent gay character when she was away.

Bravo teameric I so appreciate this. It's completely out of line for people to attack my pov. Just because I said we should move on doesn't mean u have to. Really I will say I loved oltl more then anyone was angry it was cancelled two and half years ago and cried its final day. I was burned by pp once but second time I tried watching it. The show was beyond Terrible with wasted vets galore, no real coherent stories and a bunch of awful teens. When pp shelves it makes sense they have no money and the show was a ratings loser and complete apathy. Then the jean p nobody can rate her yet until we see her work. Let's embrace different povs.

Just OWN what you said. You so have been spending time attacking OLTL fans who arent ready to give up, how to feel and here is the PROOF!!!

#529 JONNYSBRO

• 601 posts

Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:09 PM

"Why are certain soap fans living in delusion and can't see the reality. Sometimes the truth hurts but we have to see and accept it. I am not trolling I loved Oltl it was my favorite show on tv at one time but all things come to an end."

This right here is not respecting others opinions. It is FLAT OUT telling us all how to feel.

Edited September 20, 201312 yr by John

I can't help but think that played at least a bit of a factor. Also, people watching OWN are obviously fans of Oprah. Oprah has a history with AMC and a love of J&A. I think there's a lot of synergy there. Conversely, Frons/OLTL threw away both the black AND LGBT audience in the last few years and I didn't see much in the discussion about the show that would lead me to believe OLTL 2.0 offered a remedy to that. That said, I think OLTL would've performed much better on Bravo or even FX.

I think OLTL 2.0 was in a rock and a hard place re: that issue. According to some the two PP heads had a real commitment to a black presence on these shows, but IMO the issue at OLTL was that their two black principals in the downsized new cast were a new male lead and a green recast. At AMC people know and love Jessie and Angie, even Cassandra to an extent - you're ready to go. On OLTL, while they were major characters with more story import than any black character has had on OLTL in years, Jeffrey was a character they had to introduce to the audience over time (and whose full, profound weight on the canvas was only revealed near the end of Season 1) and the new Destiny was a dramatic change from Shenell Edmonds who was almost as green as Shenell herself - Laura Harrier had to be soft-pedaled to give her any ability to perform and learn the ropes.

Which leads me to more pseudo-intellectual rambling. If the show comes back, I personally would not replace Harrier yet. I thought she had a natural charisma and spark, and an appeal that is very similar to Lisa Bonet's, who also wasn't much of an actress in her early years (or, some might say, her later years). What she had, IMO, was a raw, alluring naturalism which made her stand out on a sitcom, and made her popular. I've seen greener actresses than Harrier on soaps in key frontburner roles, God knows, and it was clear to me they were giving her time, throttling her and not putting her on in heavy story yet. I'd give her more time. And the first thing I'd do, as I've said, is put her in scenes in the Evans family home, which was glimpsed once or twice on ABC, with Tonye Patano. Let Destiny do what people do at the root of soaps - talk with family about her life and her current situation. Get to know the new face better through someone the audience knows and trusts. OLTL viewers, especially the casual crowd, know and trust Phylicia and Shaun.

While he may be puffing it up a bit, Sean Ringgold talks in Jeff Giles's book about how much the AA viewers OLTL still had in its last few years on the network had, in his experience, embraced the Evans characters; he claims they could've filled malls for personal appearances had anyone at the show or the network bothered with them. Whether or not that much is true, I think it speaks to how much that audience had been starved out by ABCD in particular in the last decade or so - so eager for more representation that even characters like the Evanses, who were pretty much tokens under Ron and Frank but were played by mostly very charismatic, talented actors, were taken in by the longtime audience. I think that's something the show needs to capitalize on.

I've already said I'd bring back R.J. and Rachel, but as for the new Destiny - I think they have to get into her weight issues, namely the fact that she lost it all but still feels a lot like Shenell's to me in terms of her personality and emotional responses. She's still raw. Harrier can be iffy, but I think she mostly managed to project the original Destiny's strong sense of self and her determination. At the same time, though, Des is still insecure, still somewhat stuck on Matthew, who, even though she's a size whatever now, can't quite get close to her anymore than she can shake him. All that is stuff they should explore, and it's something any audience can relate to. Anyway, it's all mental word vomit.

As to the EP, I thought Jen Pepperman did as good a job putting the show on and together as Ginger Smith, overall. I think the uneven writing and pacing is where the show had its real problems, and while that certainly does fall under Pepperman's purview up to a point, I also think the issues or non-issues at each of the shows were baked into their opening storylines and the insane timetable for production, which didn't allow much time for rethinking or retooling in Season 1. At OLTL that's what creamed them, particularly with the last minute actor and rewrite issues, and that would've creamed any EP, IMO, including Frank Valentini, the master of the quick change - you look at how he handles those kind of instant switches on GH or the old OLTL, and you can see that even he can only do so much.

Considering soaps main audience is black, I do think that is something that will always help any soap. Not pursuing a black audience or a gay/lesbian audience is a HUGE mistake that most soaps make. I think Prospect Park missed the boat with both shows not featuring a gay or lesbian story. That's why I get so upset with how AMC handled Bianca. She was the gay Erica and they didn't use her popularity to it's full extent. They should've recast or kept Marissa alive so we could get some romance while Bianca was around, then you'd still have a prominent gay character when she was away.

I just don't agree re: the new AMC and Eden or Bianca. The fact is that Eden is Bianca to at least 90% of that audience, she is extremely popular, and the show IMO didn't need her that much for Season 1. They established her, that she was there, that she's still Miranda's mom and is off caring for Kendall - the thread is out there, and Eden plans to return on a regular basis. I think GLBT storylines - and courageous ones - are absolutely essential on any new breed of soap opera, but you didn't have to reinvent the wheel with Bianca right out the gate where they're reinventing and renovating so much of the rest of Pine Valley and literally bringing AMC back from the dead with a new young cast.

I also was surprised several of the soap blogs panned the kids and especially A.J. and Miranda. I think those two are gold, especially Eric Nelsen, who would never have gotten in the door on the networks. And !@#$%^&*] them for that.

I just don't agree re: the new AMC and Eden or Bianca. The fact is that Eden is Bianca to at least 90% of that audience, she is extremely popular, and the show IMO didn't need her that much for Season 1. They established her, that she was there, that she's still Miranda's mom and is off caring for Kendall - the thread is out there, and Eden plans to return on a regular basis. I think GLBT storylines - and courageous ones - are absolutely essential on any new breed of soap opera, but you didn't have to reinvent the wheel with Bianca right out the gate where they're reinventing and renovating so much of the rest of Pine Valley and literally bringing AMC back from the dead with a new young cast.

I also was surprised several of the soap blogs panned the kids and especially A.J. and Miranda. I think those two are gold, especially Eric Nelsen, who would never have gotten in the door on the networks. And [!@#$%^&*] them for that.

Right ABC would never cast boy next door type. They all want hunks and who cares if they can act. With EN, you have a good actor who just happens IMHO to be very good looking

I don't think it would've been reinventing the wheel to give Bianca a love interest up front. Just keep her with Marissa and then you'd have the opportunity to have love scenes (which could draw in a gay/lesbian audience and more press), plus Miranda would have a parent in Pine Valley, so Bianca's exit wouldn't have been as left field. David would also have a family member. To me, that will always been the biggest mishap the new AMC writers made. I don't need Marissa as a main character, but even if she had as much screentime as Jane (perhaps that actress could've been the new Marissa), she could've been useful in many ways.

Depending on when they shoot season 2 I wonder about Eden Reigel's involvement as well. She's going to be late in her pregnancy then would have a maternity leave.

DP

Edited September 20, 201312 yr by Chris B

speaking of those soap blogs, I saw DC's list of best/worst couples, and they certainly wasted no time taking shots at PP

speaking of those soap blogs, I saw DC's list of best/worst couples, and they certainly wasted no time taking shots at PP

They took more shots tonight aganist OLTL and Jen Pepperman n the new podcast. Regan was saying she cant buy RH as Franco. all she sees is Todd. Jamey said dont say that name or JP will go on interviews saying you saying that prevented us from doing S2

They took more shots tonight aganist OLTL and Jen Pepperman n the new podcast. Regan was saying she cant buy RH as Franco. all she sees is Todd. Jamey said dont say that name or JP will go on interviews saying you saying that prevented us from doing S2

I rarely listen to the laughing hyenas, but to be fair RC and RH wasted no time in morphing Franco into Todd. ME is back to playing John in record time, too. GH clearly doesn't even care anymore about faking they're not the same old characters.

I rarely listen to the laughing hyenas, but to be fair RC and RH wasted no time in morphing Franco into Todd. ME is back to playing John in record time, too. GH clearly doesn't even care anymore about faking they're not the same old characters.

Oh I Agree & Kiki is Starr

They took more shots tonight aganist OLTL and Jen Pepperman n the new podcast. Regan was saying she cant buy RH as Franco. all she sees is Todd. Jamey said dont say that name or JP will go on interviews saying you saying that prevented us from doing S2

And yet they say they aren't biased

The thing what gets me about Jen Pepperman is she blames this whole ABC stealing these actors on OLTL's troubles. OLTL had no real game plan in storyline. It squandered the momentum Frank/Ron had in the last stretch on ABC. It wasn't because PP couldn't secure Kristen, Michael or Roger it stunk. Its because they wasted core vets like Viki, Clint, and Dorian was a mess on this. I don't know if the writers changes helped. Whats crazy is OLTL had so much more going for it then AMC. It had a far more committed cast to joining, it had momentum for when it ended. AMC was almost impossible to restart as Ginger Smith had to beg people and most only came because of Ginger nothing else. They were badly burned actors but what resulted was better storyline that progressed and by the end AMC online really has potential. Pepperman's excuses drove me nutso because what they are are bad excuses. Shes the executive producer and executed the show and should be blamed for what product resulted. If by some miracle OLTL did return again for a second season. They need a new exec producer IMO can give OLTL much more cohesive vision,