Considering how misogynistic soaps had become already across-the-board, I don't know what the heck he's talking about in regards to male/female relationships on daytime. Besides, if you worry a little less about gender, and a little more about character, you wouldn't run into this problem in the first place.

Exactly. WHat kind of writer goes through the cast of characters worried/obsessed over if they have a dick or not...

I can't remember the exact quotes but I think he also said he looked forward to the story about taking away Jennifer's virginity, or something along those lines.

The funny thing about "it's all about plot" is that he cannot tell a story. He never could. Just look at Y&R today - two murder investigations that are going absolutely nowhere, and 2 or 3 other long forgotten, unsolved murders.

Something about taking away her virginity and turning her into a bitch because the show didn't have a younger one and he thought Jennifer would be perfect in that role.

Something about taking away her virginity and turning her into a bitch because the show didn't have a younger one and he thought Jennifer would be perfect in that role.

Oh that's right - there was a very strong implication that once a young woman lost her virginity, she would become a bitch.

And that's exactly what happened with Jennifer, along with cliched nonsense about how she THOUGHT she wanted to save herself, but as soon as she saw Bryant's flaming cousin naked, she knew she wanted to get laid.

And then he killed Bryant to give Hunt Block some shameless Emmy-grab scenes.

I don't really understand this pervasive attitude I mean I really do not about this portrayal of men and women on soaps today and why the audience is so so accepting of it. Is there any other genre or even nighttime soaps.shows that portray women and men this way? And people find rapists like Todd Manning and EJ Dimera hot and edgy. And writers like Sheffer Pratt Guza now Carvalati take pleasure in portraying men and women this way. I can forgive the plot plot plot nonsense but really the rest is just mind numbing. What happened to the days when you could create interesting complex males without having to turn them into abusers of women.

What kind of writer goes through the cast of characters worried/obsessed over if they have a dick or not.

Someone who calls himself a writer but who dismisses storytelling in its' purest form the way most everyone who has grown up in this stifling, straight white male-dominated culture does. (Save for those who actually watch these shows, of course.)

For me, Hogan's biggest deficit as HW was his complete lack of regard for the show's history. In almost every case, history either was ignored completely, or rewritten to make an already worthless story work. It's bad enough when any soap does this, but it was especially unseemly for ATWT since, thanks to Marland, history had become its stock-and-trade.

Isn't the depiction, and the romanticizing of rape, still a problem in romance fiction as well? I really wouldn't know, but I've read articles that imply as much. But yeah--I think it really just boils down to laziness. For all the mixed reaction to LB's current AMC, and the continued hero complex of Ryan and Zack--I'm not even sure if it's a hero complex with Zack--I appreciate that it seems to have a more realistic view of gender, actually even under the K/S era it seemed to manage to.

I don't really understand this pervasive attitude I mean I really do not about this portrayal of men and women on soaps today and why the audience is so so accepting of it.

Because WOOOOOOOOOO EJAY AND SAMMI ARE SOOOOO HOT & CUTE 2GETHUR NOT LIKE THOSE OLD FARTS VIKTOR & MAGEE WHO WANTS WATCH OLD PEOPLE HAVE SEX? IT IS GROSS THAT S NOT Y I WATCH DAYS! IVE WATCHED THE SHOW SINCE I WAS 6 NOW IM 13, 14 NEXT WK! :) LUKAS IS SO HOT BRING BACK BRYON WE MISS U BRYON WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by Khan

I don't really understand this pervasive attitude I mean I really do not about this portrayal of men and women on soaps today and why the audience is so so accepting of it. Is there any other genre or even nighttime soaps.shows that portray women and men this way? And people find rapists like Todd Manning and EJ Dimera hot and edgy. And writers like Sheffer Pratt Guza now Carvalati take pleasure in portraying men and women this way. I can forgive the plot plot plot nonsense but really the rest is just mind numbing. What happened to the days when you could create interesting complex males without having to turn them into abusers of women.

I think much of the audience isn't accepting. I think this is a big reason why soap ratings have fallen so drastically in the last 10-15 years. I know the prevailing wisdom is that women were locked inside their homes until 1994, but generally I believe most viewers have, even with much effort and patience, been driven away by how regressive soaps have become.

Perhaps if these people were talented, then viewers might have stayed, even with misogyny and bigotry, but generally the talent has been impossible to see.

For me, Hogan's biggest deficit as HW was his complete lack of regard for the show's history. In almost every case, history either was ignored completely, or rewritten to make an already worthless story work. It's bad enough when any soap does this, but it was especially unseemly for ATWT since, thanks to Marland, history had become its stock-and-trade.

That's why I could never just say, "How great Barbara has a story/Barbara wasn't killed off." Barbara as Scooby Doo villain was such a cheapening of anything she was, even when she was a bitch or a schemer. I remember when they tried to make something out of Kim turning her back on Barbara. Who could care when there was zero warm relationships of any kind in Oakdale anyway? Hogan Sheffer sneers at any warmth, family, friendship, or caring.

Isn't the depiction, and the romanticizing of rape, still a problem in romance fiction as well?

For god's sake, he's a lusty pirate who makes his living seizing booty! What should he do, ask her nice-like?

What I can't get past is soaps core audience being women, yet a good majority of soaps(now & in past years) are so misogynistic towards the audience that watches.

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by dragonflies

I have mixed feelings about Sheffer. To be honest, the show DID need a shot in the arm when he came on the scene. Suddenly, ATWT was being talked about, winning Emmys, and provoking discussion. Also, on the plus side, the fabulous Barbara Ryan (reduced to pouring coffee and listening to the problems of that awful FirstJennifer) was suddenly front-and-center and portrayer Colleen Zenk Pinter was Emmy-nominated for Lead Actress. When Sheffer split up Barbara and Hal, it led to a chain-reaction of storylines that WAS fun to watch. The problem was that ATWT was really good for about a year and a half, and Hogan was there for five years. For one great Barbara Ryan story, we got five Teens On The Run. For every great new character like Rose D'Angelo, we got lots of Dahlias, Pilars, Doc Reeses and , lest we forget, Bonnie In Scotland. Worst of all, we got Craig, Craig, Craig. Every frigging day. This wasn't the conflicted sometime=hero/sometime-villain of Scott Bryce. No, Sheffer gave us Hunt Block's Craig, aka Snidely Whiplash -meets -Henny Youngman.

What I can't get past is soaps core audience being women, yet a good majority of soaps(now & in past years) are so misogynistic towards the audience that watches.

Well as far as I am concerned there is a reason these shows are not growing their younger female audience. OLTL might have gained viewers this year but their 18-34 demo and yes even their 18-49 demo is still abysmal but they are for the rest of the soaps also.

For god's sake, he's a lusty pirate who makes his living seizing booty! What should he do, ask her nice-like?

You're right. I don't understand why any woman wouldn't swoon and shake over that. (Or even a smart gay man...)

Isn't the depiction, and the romanticizing of rape, still a problem in romance fiction as well? I really wouldn't know, but I've read articles that imply as much. But yeah--I think it really just boils down to laziness. For all the mixed reaction to LB's current AMC, and the continued hero complex of Ryan and Zack--I'm not even sure if it's a hero complex with Zack--I appreciate that it seems to have a more realistic view of gender, actually even under the K/S era it seemed to manage to.

I have a lot of complaints about AMC but they in general have treated women respectfully well as good as any soap can. Zach is just the typical sexist piggish antihero same as JOhn McDraino and Jason Snorgan, he doesn;t abuse Kendall he just doesn't respect her or ignores her. JR is really the only really awful male on that show for the most part but they also dont glorify him so you feel sorry for him in a way. And Ryan is a sanctimonious know it all but he's never treated any of the women he's been with badly for the most part. AMC is about as evenly balanced as you can get with men and women I guess.