GH: Classic Thread

[titan1978]

Didn’t Tony eventually help her resurrect Stavros in the underground lab at GH? Which was such a stupid storyline to watch. I know that was all post Guza and almost lost JFP the EP position. Everything was bad, including the new music cues she started using.

[carolineg]

The first time around 2001?  When they did the bioterrorism story that got cut?  That rings a bell, but I think Tony was forced to do it by Helena.  I am really drawing a blank of what Tony did post-Carly/Michael until he was taken off contract.  

[titan1978]

I have vague recollections of him strutting around town at various points calling Carly a whore and complaining about how dangerous Sonny and Jason were.

And yes, the terrible 2001 story. IIRC Helena forced his hand but I can’t remember how.

[dc11786]

I think Tony Jones is one of the main reasons I am not sure I'll ever be able to watch much of the Guza 1990s even though some of the clips of the era are very appealing. I just think the destruction of Bobbie and Tony's marriage without reuniting them in the end is such a glaring error especially since so little was done with either character. 

Very shocking scene in June, 1993, that might have been a scrap (or mere coincidence) of Wendy Riche's proposed (and shot down) A.J. contracts HIV storyline. In one episode, there is an extended sequence of Bobbie speaking with Marcy, a young woman of 25 about her chronic health issues. Marcy is praying she will live until her 30 birthday and Bobbie promises two make a cake to celebrate that occasion. It's a very sweet scene, but no real overall value to the canvas. After Marcy departs (with her caring and supportive boyfriend), Bobbie talks to Monica and Tony about Marcy and her HIV status and suggesting to Steve to dedicate some of Dominque's bequest to AIDS research. During the discussion, there is mention of the devastating effects of the disease and Monica makes a rather pointed comment: "It is a shame that my sons can't have fun the way we did." At this point, A.J. hasn't really been paired with anyone post Nikki. There is some hints with Brenda and Julia, but nothing definitive. 

Monica's angst over Alan / Rhonda still intrigues me. Nice conversation with Bobbie where Bobbie brings up how she thought Tony was having an affair with Rita Lloyd Jones, which I don't think actually happened because Bobbie was so absorbed with the Lucas secret, but that's definitely where that story was going.  

The fall out of Steve and Audrey's attack is very well done. Both Steve and Audrey are feeling the effects which have been heightened now that Ryan has been admitted to GH as a patient. Hardy standing by Ryan's bed while contemplating killing Ryan, with Ryan taunting him to do it, was a shock. Ames is breaking my heart as Audrey becomes more and more frightened of the situation, especially given the bravado Ames displayed during the attack scenes where she was coolly playing along with Ryan's delusion that she was his mother. 

The prom night fall out is pretty wild. Brenda and Jason end up at the dunes and Jason calls out Brenda after Brenda rebuffs Jason's sexual advances after running hot and heavy with him earlier in the evening when Jagger was around. It was nicely contrasted with Karen and Jagger about to have sex for the first time and Karen freaking out as memories of her abuse at the hands of Ray surface. Ray has also just made his first appearance. 

Felicia and Mac are just the perfect long angsty couple (this slow burn has been going on since June, 1992, and I believe there was a bit of Mac/Felicia in late 1991 before Wagner left). The shaving scene is pretty intense and I got to a point where I just was yelling at the TV to kiss already. Wagner and York really deserve their roses for the work they are doing here. Phenomenal. 

The fallout of Tracy's departure has been nice. Paul is livid that Tracy has run off with Dillon and Jenny is living with the guilt that her actions have led to Tracy's great escape. Paul also name drops Susan so she is still out there somewhere. 

I also appreciate the rotation of the stories. Something is always happening and I don't feel like stories are gone too long before they pick up again. Katherine has just popped up in town and it's too soon for me to get a feel of whether or not I will enjoy this.  

[Dion]

Helena got a brainwashed Lucky to give Lucas something that triggered Lucas' blood sugar to rise (especially dangerous because of Lucas' diabetes) and sent him into a coma. Then kidnapped Tony and told him she wouldn't give him the cure unless he woke up Stavros and also added that she would do the same to Lulu and Michael if he still refused to comply.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Dion

[carolineg]

Thanks!  I still don't really remember that lol.  You would think Helena could just hire a Dr. who was willing to wake Stavros on their own instead of blackmailing Tony and threatening to kill small children.   But it's Helena, so 

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[titan1978]

It is actually very compelling drama, and it was totally in character. My problem was there was nothing beyond his lowest moment. He didn’t seek a redemption after that in story, just came across as bitter and defeated. We got not triumphant rebuilding of his life, even though eventually he does just kind of mellow out after not being used much. But I do think the downward spiral from BJ’s death through to his trial several years later is compelling. I am being a little vague because I don’t want to spoil anything you may not have heard about before now.

I hate deconstruction as a storyline without a plan for the other end of it. Just slowly breaking someone or a couple down without examination and nowhere to go gets old, and Guza thrives on that. I am not saying it always has to be redemption though. Look at how complex a character like Karen Wolek was on OLTL? She did truly awful things and yet you still wanted her to build herself back up because she did things out of self loathing or deep, if misguided love (the baby switch for her sister Jenny).

Edited December 30, 2024 by titan1978

[Khan]

To me, those - characters who do awful things with the best intentions - are the best kind to write for and to watch, because they're just so much more "real" than characters who do awful things strictly because that's what the plot dictates (yes, ghosts of Eileen and Robert Mason Pollock, I'm looking dead at you, lol).

The thing is, Tony Jones NEEDED a redemption arc.  We needed to see him - slowly, and not without struggles - rebuild his life, with a new marriage and maybe even a new family, too.  (Frankly, I felt too much damage had been done to his and Bobbie's marriage for them to go back to being anything more than close friends).  We needed to see that as tragic as B.J.'s death was for him, it also sent him on a journey that led him ultimately to happiness.  And I think that's where Guza/Riche had intended to go with Tony - at least, I think that's what they had promised Brad Maule at the start - but backstage issues between EP and HW, not to mention network interference, just got in the way.

[titan1978]

Agreed!

[carolineg]

I agree as well.  Instead of doing any work to rehab Tony as a character he just faded away.  I understand backstage things happen, but after years of watching him spiral we never got to see him work for his reputation, career, and life back.  He just was a respected again a few years later after minimal appearances.

I also agree about Bobbie/Tony.  I thought they were a decent couple.  There was just too much damage to ever go back and I don't think they were popular enough to even try.  The one thing Bobbie really loved about Tony, IMO, was the stability he offered and that was gone.  With the amount of vets we lost through the years it was a mistake to kill Tony off.  Although I will say I thought his death scenes were very good.  It's a shame we barely saw him for years before that.

[titan1978]

I know Bobbie cheated on him but the way Brad Maule chose to play a lot of his scenes surrounding Bobbie after Damian Smith, and later how he acted about Carly didn’t do him any favors. I didn’t want them reunited after it felt like Bobbie was expected to live a life just begging him for forgiveness when she had admitted the mistake and Jackie played how much it cost her. Brad played everything in such a strident way, very angry and little vulnerability. I think had he chosen or was allowed to let some vulnerability show more often it would have helped him and Tony. Tony was always so judgemental. It’s kind of like how the show quit writing for Genie for a period of time after Lucky died. I think she played the grief so deeply they didn’t know how Laura would recover from something like that, so they just left her kind of adrift.

Compare the way Maule played his stuff to how Tony Geary played Luke without Laura in the 90’s like a walking wound. Even when Luke was wrong (hating Nikolas) at least you got the sense how sad he was all the time. I actually liked that they let Tony go so far into his rage, but I was hoping for that rebuilding because I do think these soaps need a glimmer of hope.

But then again, Guza didn’t do a lot of building people back up, only tearing down. It was a relief that Alan survived his drug use, and he wasn’t really given much to do of depth after that.

And I had loved Bobbie and Jake, no other pairing has come close for me. But Tony/Bobbie was popular, and the direction people wanted after Lucy’s lies were exposed and her marriage to Tony broke up. 

Edited December 31, 2024 by titan1978

[carolineg]

Very interesting take.  I always thought Tony was so judgemental and ragey because that's the only way he knew how to deal with things.  In his mind he did everything right with Bobbie-which is obviously not true-but I thought that was his thinking.  Bobbie lied and cheated.  Bobbie was "damaged".  Once Carly came along it gave Tony a sense of new life and new purpose.  Then she cheated and lied to him even though he thought he did right by her too.  His actions are debatable on that, but I can see that anger and condemnation when he felt like nice guys always finish last.  The devastation at knowing you slept with your own wife's daughter and the child she was carrying wasn't yours would drive most to a breakdown.

Since both Bobbie and Tony mostly floundered after the whole Carly/Michael saga I can see the logic in putting them back together.   The romance felt done.  I liked that they became good friends.  

It's similar to the way I feel about Jax/Brenda.  I loved them, they were popular, but there is too much there for them to go back to a romance.  While I still feel like there are things unsaid and things to do with Sonny/Brenda even if Sonny is far more toxic in general.

Thinking about Bobbie's post-Tony romances I can see a strong argument for them to find their way back to one another though.  Tony never really got a chance at romance post-Carly.

[Vee]

I don't think Brad Maule had trouble playing vulnerability. I do think the show retrod the same notes with the character over and over during the slow end of his marriage to Bobbie. They were wonderful together, but I agree too much had happened to go back.

I appreciate Maule and Tony much more now revisiting the '90s than I did then. He was always great to watch and I cared for him, but there is a depth of feeling and a lived-in weariness and intellect (and wit) that you only get when you are older, too.

I personally suspect (and may have heard once, though I may be wrong) that Guza actually had intended to kill Tony in '98 with the breakdown story and was stopped from doing so. Who knows.

I would love to see BM return in a small role even as a doppleganger to cause trouble. I know it's silly but sillier things have happened and he's so talented. I could do with more of Ghost Tony at least, advising his son and other old friends. God knows Mel Hayes made many appearances as a ghost to Dorian on Frank and Ron's OLTL.

[titan1978]

I never understood any attempt at them being together again after 2002 and their almost wedding. I felt the same way after Laura’s catatonic state happened because Scotty was the one that killed Rick, and how he treated Lulu for Logan. Laura should have went after Scotty for revenge, not show up engaged to him a few years later. Brenda ending up back with Jax feels like a weakness, and that was against all the development she went through.

[carolineg]

I always thought Tony was relatable.  A steady guy who got bogged down by troubles that caused him to break in the end.  He was handsome, but not overly so, hard working, reliable and a regular guy.  A nice contrast to his brother and his romantic and superspy laden tales.  He also had a great rapport with most of the cast he worked with even in small scenes.  I always remember the scene where Tony ripped apart Dr. Dorman#1 for refusing to operate on Stone because his case was terminal.  Tony didn't have a ton to do with that story, but his presence and integrity as a Dr. was needed as a small touch.

Tony is definitely one of the characters you don't truly appreciate until they aren't around.  I never disliked Tony and Brad Maule did some great work.  GH could really use Tony right now though.

I wonder.  I have to go back and rewatch.  Did you suspect suicide or Carly actually killing him when she shot him in court?  I am glad it didn't happen at the time because Carly was definitely framed as being 'right' for shooting Tony.

It weakens both characters IMO.  Brenda was committed to Jax in 2003, he dumped her at the altar and it ended.  In 2010, they still had a spark but Brenda was now all in with Sonny and Jax was dedicated to Carly.  Since we never saw them reconnect on air before 2013 it was odd.  It felt like a situation where they were both settling.  While I will always believe Brenda is the love of Jax's life he knows he is second best.  Brenda just looks like a wishy-washy fool getting back with Jax and engaged for the 100th time and immediately begging Sonny to take her back.  WTF even was that?  Lol.

Why screw an entire fanbase for, what, a week's worth of story? 

Edited December 31, 2024 by carolineg