Seeing Jake rebuking a resurrected Jason on today's GH got me thinking back to Jake's "death" in 2011. We talk about the destruction of the Quartermaines but boy were Spencers decimated! Why on God's screen Earth would they have Luke drunkenly  run over his grandson? How did he escape those charges again??

The scene ahere Luke tries to get Jason to kill him, Also makes Luke look ugly. 

 

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by Planet Soap

I suspect they only had Luke do that because he’s the only one that could have gotten away with it without actually being killed by Jason. 

Geary loved playing this type of sh!t though.

JFP would later do a semi knockoff of this story on Y&R with Delia’s death, which has, of course, stuck. 

8 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

I suspect they only had Luke do that because he’s the only one that could have gotten away with it without actually being killed by Jason. 

Geary loved playing this type of sh!t though.

JFP would later do a semi knockoff of this story on Y&R with Delia’s death, which has, of course, stuck. 

Yeah, he seemed to want Luke to be this dark nihilistic abyss of a character. I like mid-90s Luke — a family man running from his past. 

I can appreciate the protectiveness and ownership Tony Geary felt for Luke. The problem was he became so absolutist about things being a certain way that the audience saw him play differently. And that he himself spoke differently about before he got burned out.

I can get behind TG not wanting to play the same Luke and Laura dynamics. But to have that be so ingrained that they can’t even have Genie on the show was ridiculous. And I know that was JFP too, not just Tony.

4 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I can get behind TG not wanting to play the same Luke and Laura dynamics. But to have that be so ingrained that they can’t even have Genie on the show was ridiculous. And I know that was JFP too, not just Tony.

I don't think Tony kept Genie gone. At least that's the first I've ever heard of it. I do think that contributed to the worsening issue with him BTS, I don't think he'd have gone down that road if he was on-set with her every day.

1 hour ago, Planet Soap said:

I like mid-90s Luke — a family man running from his past. 

I liked how Claire Labine in particular saw Luke as someone who had experienced a lot in his lifetime, but who had finally settled down (or, as settled down as a man like Luke Spencer could be); and as a father who saw a lot of himself in his young son and, as such, would do his best to keep him on the straight-and-narrow.  To me, that level of maturity made Luke a much more fascinating character to watch than the drunken, self-pitying void he ultimately became.

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

I liked how Claire Labine in particular saw Luke as someone who had experienced a lot in his lifetime, but who had finally settled down (or, as settled down as a man like Luke Spencer could be); and as a father who saw a lot of himself in his young son and, as such, would do his best to keep him on the straight-and-narrow.  To me, that level of maturity made Luke a much more fascinating character to watch than the drunken, self-pitying void he ultimately became.

And Tony played it to the hilt, despite his claims later on. I remember him once saying in print that once they had Claire Labine he knew the L&L return would be a hit. Later, he either claimed they didn't get along or he couldn't stand the '90s material or both. Was one statement happy talk or the second just revisionist history in Tony's own mind? Like Luke, I think Tony spent a lot of recent years trying to convince himself the golden days didn't matter.

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by Vee

26 minutes ago, Vee said:

And Tony played it to the hilt, despite his claims later on. I remember him once saying in print that once they had Claire Labine he knew the L&L return would be a hit. Later, he either claimed they didn't get along or he couldn't stand the '90s material or both. Was one statement happy talk or the second just revisionist history in Tony's own mind? Like Luke, I think Tony spent a lot of recent years trying to convince himself the golden days didn't matter.

Personally, I think TG realized that having a young son (and daughter) on the show meant that he (and GF) would one day become part of the "old guard" of veteran characters who aren't necessarily driving stories anymore, but who are instead the "older and wiser" talk-to's to the newer generation who are, so he balked.  Just because he had resigned himself to the fact that he would always be "Luke Spencer" to the world no-matter-what, that didn't mean he was fine with being GH's answer to RH's Johnny Ryan.

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by Khan

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

I can appreciate the protectiveness and ownership Tony Geary felt for Luke. The problem was he became so absolutist about things being a certain way that the audience saw him play differently. And that he himself spoke differently about before he got burned out.

I can get behind TG not wanting to play the same Luke and Laura dynamics. But to have that be so ingrained that they can’t even have Genie on the show was ridiculous. And I know that was JFP too, not just Tony.

I can appreciate actors not wanting to be slaves to the writers, but actors who aren't involved in the writing process (or actors who cannot write) shouldn't have too much say in storyline direction. 

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by Planet Soap

3 hours ago, Planet Soap said:

I can appreciate actors not wanting to be slaves to the writers, but actors who aren't involved in the writing process (or actors who cannot write) shouldn't have too much say in storyline direction. 

I usually agree. However some of the best plots on GH came from a willingness to listen to the actors about their characters. LC brought the idea of Monica’s breast cancer to Riche, and they ran with it. Genie in some of her first conversations with Wendy Riche brought up those two years that Laura was gone was fertile ground, and long enough for her to have a child and fully recovered. Guza ran with that one. Tony created the overall ideas for the L&L return, and Lannie fleshed it out with the writing team.

 

3 hours ago, Vee said:

And Tony played it to the hilt, despite his claims later on. I remember him once saying in print that once they had Claire Labine he knew the L&L return would be a hit. Later, he either claimed they didn't get along or he couldn't stand the '90s material or both. Was one statement happy talk or the second just revisionist history in Tony's own mind? Like Luke, I think Tony spent a lot of recent years trying to convince himself the golden days didn't matter.

Well there was some conflict with it, because Claire Labine said Wendy would send her to talk to Geary about stuff they knew he would not like in her We Love Soaps interview. So he’s not fully creating that narrative later. She acknowledged that she just wasn’t capable of writing that 80’s action stuff he wanted to do all the time, and that Luke as a family man and what that means interested her. She did say he was always gracious about it with her.

1 minute ago, titan1978 said:

I usually agree. However some of the best plots on GH came from a willingness to listen to the actors about their characters. LC brought the idea of Monica’s breast cancer to Riche, and they ran with it. Genie in some of her first conversations with Wendy Riche brought up those two years that Laura was gone was fertile ground, and long enough for her to have a child and fully recovered. Guza ran with that one. Tony created the overall ideas for the L&L return, and Lannie fleshed it out with the writing team.

In most of those cases, however, I'm sure TPTB had the power to say "no" if they didn't want to tell a particular story.  To me, that's a far cry from, "Steve doesn't want Jason's memories back, so don't even try it!," or, "Tony doesn't want Luke to get help for his drinking, and if you go there, he'll just sabotage the storyline with no pushback whatsoever!"

4 hours ago, Khan said:

I liked how Claire Labine in particular saw Luke as someone who had experienced a lot in his lifetime, but who had finally settled down (or, as settled down as a man like Luke Spencer could be); and as a father who saw a lot of himself in his young son and, as such, would do his best to keep him on the straight-and-narrow.  To me, that level of maturity made Luke a much more fascinating character to watch than the drunken, self-pitying void he ultimately became.

He had a lot of layers too. You had the danger stuff with Frank Smith and the issues with being Sonny’s partner. His fatherhood issues with Lucky and Laura. His relationship with Laura as she was happy to be back home and he was more inclined to keep running. They also still had a believable romantic connection. He and Bobbie had a very specific dynamic. There was a lot of fertile ground and it didn’t feel like his maligned opinions at the end of his tenure.

I loved Luke during Labine’s run. Truthfully, I still thought he was a wonderful character until the Felicia affair. Which tracks, because I need Laura to help make Luke palatable, and that was a point on the show where Genie felt they had stopped writing for her. She was just miserable for like two years as she grieved Lucky and the end of her marriage.

I enjoyed him a bit more again when Lulu arrived as a teen, and he was pulled away from being selfish all the time. But it got worse from there.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

In most of those cases, however, I'm sure TPTB had the power to say "no" if they didn't want to tell a particular story.  To me, that's a far cry from, "Steve doesn't want Jason's memories back, so don't even try it!," or, "Tony doesn't want Luke to get help for his drinking, and if you go there, he'll just sabotage the storyline with no pushback whatsoever!"

That’s the willingness part. What should be a collaboration sometimes becomes outsized on either end- a character way out of character to support a plot, or an actor refusing things or actively sabotaging the intent of the show (Burton with SJB’s Carly towards the end of his first run, KM clearly tanking her Jason reunion to stay with Billy Miller, whatever the hell happened with Liason/JaSam in the mid 2000’s, etc).

I remember reading an interview with Zenk about how much she hated Bitch Barbara on ATWT, didn’t agree with what Marland was doing, and fought against it. And then after the fact realizing that probably saved her in the long run because the show could see her as more than just a victim. Sometimes they should just act!

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by titan1978

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

That’s the willingness part. What should be a collaboration sometimes becomes outsized on either end- a character way out of character to support a plot, or an actor refusing things or actively sabotaging the intent of the show (Burton with SJB’s Carly towards the end of his first run, KM clearly tanking her Jason reunion to stay with Billy Miller, whatever the hell happened with Liason/JaSam in the mid 2000’s, etc).

I think that was just a perfect storm of circumstance. IIRC they apparently thought Kelly was leaving so threw Sam under the bus and went full speed with Liason. She didn't leave and I think Frons preferred Jasam, so it (unfortunately, IMO) reverted back. I don't know that any actor screwed that over.

Kelly was right about Sam and Drew in the end IMO, but I agree with your general sentiment. What's really baffling to me is whatever the hell happened with Steve in 2021 with the musical couples, starting with the swift and seemingly permanent (for now) end of Jasam after almost 20 years.

Edited April 3, 20241 yr by Vee

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I usually agree. However some of the best plots on GH came from a willingness to listen to the actors about their characters. LC brought the idea of Monica’s breast cancer to Riche, and they ran with it. Genie in some of her first conversations with Wendy Riche brought up those two years that Laura was gone was fertile ground, and long enough for her to have a child and fully recovered. Guza ran with that one. Tony created the overall ideas for the L&L return, and Lannie fleshed it out with the writing team.

 

Well there was some conflict with it, because Claire Labine said Wendy would send her to talk to Geary about stuff they knew he would not like in her We Love Soaps interview. So he’s not fully creating that narrative later. She acknowledged that she just wasn’t capable of writing that 80’s action stuff he wanted to do all the time, and that Luke as a family man and what that means interested her. She did say he was always gracious about it with her.

Fair points

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

He had a lot of layers too. You had the danger stuff with Frank Smith and the issues with being Sonny’s partner. His fatherhood issues with Lucky and Laura. His relationship with Laura as she was happy to be back home and he was more inclined to keep running. They also still had a believable romantic connection. He and Bobbie had a very specific dynamic. There was a lot of fertile ground and it didn’t feel like his maligned opinions at the end of his tenure.

I loved Luke during Labine’s run. Truthfully, I still thought he was a wonderful character until the Felicia affair. Which tracks, because I need Laura to help make Luke palatable, and that was a point on the show where Genie felt they had stopped writing for her. She was just miserable for like two years as she grieved Lucky and the end of her marriage.

I enjoyed him a bit more again when Lulu arrived as a teen, and he was pulled away from being selfish all the time. But it got worse from there.

That’s the willingness part. What should be a collaboration sometimes becomes outsized on either end- a character way out of character to support a plot, or an actor refusing things or actively sabotaging the intent of the show (Burton with SJB’s Carly towards the end of his first run, KM clearly tanking her Jason reunion to stay with Billy Miller, whatever the hell happened with Liason/JaSam in the mid 2000’s, etc).

I remember reading an interview with Zenk about how much she hated Bitch Barbara on ATWT, didn’t agree with what Marland was doing, and fought against it. And then after the fact realizing that probably saved her in the long run because the show could see her as more than just a victim. Sometimes they should just act!

What happened with SJB and Steve Burton👀  I've read before that the reason Jason and Carly (an obvious couple) have not been paired is because of Burton's refusal.

I've also seen it suggested that Kelly Monaco wanted to be paired with Billy Miller instead of Burton. I can believe it.  Monaco has not shown in one ounce of enthusiasm in her acting with Burton---then again her acting's become dull with everyone. Maybe I need to rewatch, but I never bought Billy Miller as Jason, nor have I felt any spark between him and Kelly Monaco. 

Britt and Jason actually felt like a decent pairing before the writers screwed that up.

It sucks that Genie never got full respect as she should have been the Viki Lord of GH-- the longsuffering CENTRAL female heroine. At least she's getting some of that now.

Edited April 3, 20241 yr by Planet Soap

2 hours ago, Vee said:

What's really baffling to me is whatever the hell happened with Steve in 2021 with the musical couples, starting with the swift and seemingly permanent (for now) end of Jasam after almost 20 years.

It was wild!