GH: Classic Thread

[BrendaB]

For sure.  Love all the comments and insights Kristina Wagner had to share in particular.  One absolutely positive thing about Frank Valentini, he knows how to treat female actresses, especially veteran female actresses, well.  Ironic that the show had legendary female executive producers for decades and they were awful to the female cast (especially Jill Farren Phelps...that hack Frankie Frame killer)...shows you how much misogyny is internalized.

 

[AMCHistory]

Kristina's brutal honesty shows how far this show has come from the dark ages of JFP's reign. I remember an interview a few years ago with Jane Elliot and Nancy Grahn where they called out how they were the only women above the age of 50 allowed to have a contract in the past regime.... and how much happier they were that the veteran actors like Finola, Michelle, and Maura getting lead roles in the current regime.

I give Kristina so much credit for holding out for a contract time-and-time again. Yes, it lead to years where she was not on the show (and recast), but she showed integrity in her actions.  

[victoria foxton]

 

  

[Vee]

I'm not sure that's what happened with Kristina recently or in the 2000s, but I know it was the case for Genie and Finola not long ago.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Vee

[victoria foxton]

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[DRW50]

 

[BrendaB]

Okay, I am mid-way through 1993 of AddieCate's GH episodes playlist.  Wow:  the cast and stories are even better than 1992.  I was surprised Claire Labine still hasn't showed up on the writing credits, so all this greatness is due to Bill Levinson & his writing staff (plus Wendy Riche's production)?!

Steve Burton looks better and less awkward in 1993 with longer hair, but WOW at how cruel he was to Karen here:

The way Brenda, AJ and especially Jason slut-shamed and harassed Karen is horrible, but so bold of the show to go there with her character in this child molestation story.  I still like all these characters despite how cruel they were to (mostly bland goody-goody) Karen. 

Vanessa Marcil and Sean Kanan were soooo gorgeous in 1993.  The chemistry is palpable, crazy they didn't do anything with them together.  Making AJ into a complete loser for decades was such the wrong move.

The only storyline in 1993 I haven't liked is Luke(Bill?) being a deadbeat dad and having a triangle with Holly & Victoria.  Both of those women would have been better off in a triangle with Randolph Mantooth, instead, but I guess then he wouldn't have returned to Loving and The City.  Funny how both female characters look similar to Lisa Peluso.  Alex & Ava Rescott Forbes Alden Masters #3 forever!!

[Vee]

By his own account, Randolph Mantooth was miserable at GH and fled the show as soon as possible lol.

[carolineg]

Brenda/AJ were sorta the villians here so I can see how they slut shamed Karen.  Jason is coming from a place of hurt, so they were all wrong, but they all eventually back track on it.  

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I would suspect AJ/Brenda were the pairing that would have happened if not for Sonny/Brenda.  I always felt they were slow burning to that up to the point that AJ/Brenda went on dates and AJ was pretty jealous of Sonny/Brenda.  He fell out of the equation quickly, but I suspect that might have been more due to SK's own personal issues. 

In my mind the only pairing Bill had with any legs was with Julia.  Holly/Bill was just bad.  They needed to get Bill out of Luke's orbit completely and Holly/Mac raising Robin felt more natural even if I don't think ES and JJY had much chemistry. 

[dc11786]

Levinson is headwriter until late September/early October. There are a lot of strong stories during his run. I made it up until April, 1993, when I decided to jump around, but I've seen a series of episodes from the tail end of his run. Misogyny seems prevalent throughout his run. The way characters go at Karen is pretty disgusting. Jenny Eckert received treatment earlier in the year during the investigation into her sexual involvement with Jack Kensington when she was only 16 years old. Also, the custody trial between Bobbie and Tiffany has competing secrets about their past involving each woman's history selling sex (Bobbie as a prostitute and Tiffany as the star of "Trixie Does Tennessee" or whatever the film title was). 

I actually liked Bill as a deadbeat dad. I thought that was an interesting perspective to take with a character who was such a hot mess. Sly's relationships with all his father's exes (Holly, Julia) as well as with father-to-be Scotty were great layers that the show played. Bill worked best for me when he was Ned's business rival and the impact that had on his relationship with his sister Jenny. I don't mind Bill and Julia, but I am not sure they were ever going to be able to get past the fact Bill had killed Harlan.  

I appreciated that the show had pretty much abandoned the sorta of action/adventure stories that had put the show on the map, but had fallen out of favor with the general soap viewing public by that point. The Portugal excursion with Richard Halifax gaslighting Bill by having Lucy impersonate Victoria was weak, but thankfully short-lived. The Ryan Chamberlain plot was a much more effective attempt at telling one of those type of action stories, but by grounding it in the hospital with Ryan's work as a psychiatrist and the impact the trial had on his relationship with his colleagues. From watching some different stretches of the 1990s, everyone teaming up to convince Ryan that he was going crazy was a very old school style plot with a more modern shading to it. 

One of Levinson's stronger points was he was good at utilizing a lot of the older cast. Gail as a sounding board for Monica as Monica tries to find some peace in her marriage was great. The family therapy session led by Gail where A.J. unloads about Alan paying off Nikki was great. The fallout of the Ryan story with Audrey and Steve both suffering bouts of post traumatic stress over what had transpired was also strong. Lee being there for Scotty as Dominque is dying is helpful. One of my favorite scenes is when Lila both scolds Tracey and comforts her over Tracey's attempts to hurt Paul through Dillon because of Tracey's own pain watching Paul and Jenny together. I have even come to appreciate Carol Lawrence's turn as the more meddling, social climbing version of Angela Eckert.  

[BrendaB]

Interesting tidbit @Vee.  I wonder if he just hated acting opposite Anthony Geary who just seems insufferable to me.  GH did some big and random casting coups in the 1990s.  I was surprised they even got Regina Belle to play Lucy's friend and sing at Dominique's memorial right after her big Disney song had charted.

@carolineg I agree.  I think they just needed to send Bill into orbit.  I never want to hear those 3 words, "Summer in Provance" again.  I liked Bill's son Sly's relationship/attachment to Julia, though, and his relationship with his aunt Jenny.  That was sweet.  Sly's attachment to all the adults in PC (besides his deadbeat dad) was cute.  Seemed like he was being raised by the whole village.  I wonder if the show ever considered bringing the character back as an adult...

And speaking of returns, it's crazy that they apparently recast Dillon's dad with Richard Burgi and apparently made him a serial killer in the 2010s (if my perusal of the character wiki is accurate).  His relationship to Jenny and the rest of the PC was so normal in the 1990s.  I loved that Tracy/Ned vs Paul/Jenny dynamic.  That was fun.

@dc11786 it seems like you've seen a whole lot of episodes that AddieCate hasn't posted in that 1993 playlist...is there another account that has those episodes, like the Ryan Chamberlain storyline climax?  I agree with a lot of your points.  It's amazing how far the show went with certain things back in the 1990s...they wouldn't dare delve into those depths in the 2020s.

I'm now in the July episodes in the aftermath and it's so cute seeing Felicia & Mac having a more normal romance...I actually tuned into GH for the first time live around the double wedding of Mac/Felicia & Kevin/Lucy...and then Peter Jennings interrupted it for some breaking news...I was so pissed.  Then school started up again and I couldn't keep watching GH.  Ugh!  But now I can finally work my way through the glorious '90s GH on Youtube.  I don't understand why Hulu doesn't have the whole series up!

[Vee]

I don't know why I was under the impression Labine's first week was in late August. I know she's said her first week had Karen throwing Sonny's drugs back in his face, but I don't know when exactly that was.

That's def the vibe I got in rewatching material recently, and they had serious chemistry.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Vee

[dc11786]

@Vee

From Curlyqgrl's site

October 11, 1993 - No Commercials - Brenda wishes Robin a happy 16th birthday. A dazed Karen bails on her shift at Kellys. Felicia tells Sean and Mac that she thinks she has a sure fire way to prove Ryan killed Jessica. They should just put Ryan back in same hospital room with the same guard and wait. He will escape again. Amy suspects Karen stole pills from the hospital. Alan asks Monica if she will be using their opera tickets but she is not about to let Madame Butterfly go to waste on Rhonda. Alan tells Steve about a procedure he invented to help one of his patients being written up in a medical journal. Amy tells Alan and Steve that Karen stole pills from GH. Steve agrees to let Alan look into the matter before he takes any action. Brenda and Robin follow Karen to The Paradise Lounge. Brenda gets in to the club but Robin is out of luck. Alan and Monica end up at the opera together. Mac and Felicia ask Steve about inducing a condition that would require the hospitalization of a serial killer. Stone finds out Karen is now stealing pills. Stone wants to take Karen home, but Sonny convinces her stay and perform at the club. Steve makes a suggestion to Mac and Felicia. Brenda sees Karen strip. Felicia bakes some tainted muffins for Ryan. Thanks to all the pills, Karen freaks out on stage thinking that she “sees” Ray in the audience.

October 12, 1993 - No Commercials - Karen tells Sonny she is finished stripping. Sonny tries to smooth things over but she insists she is finished. Karen storms out of Sonny's apartment. Jagger hears Brenda tell Rhonda that Karen is at a club working at a stripper. Stone convinces Sonny to let him go after Karen. Jagger is angry at Brenda for telling Rhonda about Karen. Stone follows Karen back to her apartment and tells her that Sonny is not going to just let her go. Lucy asks Scott if when she is feeling better if they could go shopping for the baby. Katherine interrupts their moment.  Monica comes clean with Alan that she made up “Rod” to get his attention. Rhonda goes to The Paradise Lounge looking for Karen. Brenda tells Jagger that she knows he is still hung up on Karen no matter what she does. After Rhonda and Karen argue, she leaves with Stone.  Alan and Monica agree to stop arguing and end up making love. Lucy and Katherine let each other know they are both on to each other. Brenda tells Jagger that she loves him and they end up in bed together. Stone takes Karen to a cheap motel room for the night to sleep off the effects of all the pills. 

From AddieCate's episodes, Bill Levinson is still credited as of October 7th. October 8th has no credits. The next episode in her set is October 25th and Labine is credited as headwriter. I think August, 1993, was when Labine was hired, but I think her material was on-air the week of October 11th based on what you are saying, which lines up with what is available online. 

@BrendaB I have DVDs I have been watching. 

[Vee]

There you have it!

[carolineg]

I always assumed AJ/Brenda/Jason was the original intention for Brenda.  Perhaps in a similar way that Keesha was used, but with more airtime lol.   I don't think Labine was going back to the Jagger triangle, but Karen/Jagger were leaving so it's a moot point regardless.  I know they tested her with Ned as well, but Ned seems older than Sonny at that point and dated her sister so I think that would have been weird.  Sean/Vanessa have the best chemistry since I don't think Steve/Vanessa have much until he becomes Jason Morgan.   Idk, it's interesting to think what would have happened if they didn't throw Sonny/Brenda into a couple of scenes together.  Sonny probably would be a distant memory and Brenda would have been in an entirely different orbit in the 90's. 

@BrendaB Many of us have wondered why Sly never returned.  He would have been a perfect fit in that late 90's teen scene with Lucky, Liz, Emily, Nik.  

And, no, the stuff with Paul being a serial killer never made sense.  He was a villian before Jenny, but not in a psycho killer kind of way.