Scandal: Discussion Thread

[marceline]

To be fair, this isn't Shonda's fault. Fitz is gone because Tony Goldwyn wasn't available. He's been working on another project.

[JackPeyton]

What i love the most about Scandal is the show isnt afraid to let us hate Olivia.

[marceline]

Yeah I'm going to kind of enjoy the day that Abby or David lets her have it. This show is filled with people who feel like any and everything they do is justified. It's a strange moral universe. It's like Krypton, where even the sky is a different color.

I couldn't believe that James used his pillow talk with Cyrus as a source. Cyrus should make him sleep on the couch for a month because of that but it's petty clear to me that James is a dead man, especially with Charlie back in town.

And dear Lord, does Olivia eat anything other than popcorn and wine? No wonder she can't think straight.

[Ann_SS]

Based on the end of this week's episode and the preview, my speculation is that Charlie called Cyrus looking for work, Hollis threatens Fitz so Cyrus gives Charlie some work. Charlie makes Hollis' death look like a suicide.

I find Olivia likeable enough. I am okay with my protagonist being grey depending on the situation. My only issue with Olivia is that she lacks self-awareness and is deluded about her true motivations which is the fault of TPTB. Olivia reminds me of Jax on Sons of Anarchy. They both think that they are "noble" and can fix the evils in their world, when the truth is that they are slowly becoming infected by that same evil. The difference is that Kurt Sutter who produces Sons of Anarchy understands this about Jax, while Shonda Rhimes is blind to this about Olivia so she has all the characters run around spouting that she is a "white hat" when she clearly is not one.

I still disagree with you about us not knowing how Olivia feels about Fitz. It is the one thing that I never doubt. Her love for Fitz is the true driving force behind almost everything that she has done since the show started. Even sacrificing Abby while it was partly about saving her life, it was ultimately about keeping Fitz safe from the conspiracy being revealed.

[London]

I get what you're saying Ann and definitely agree with you. But for me I don't even see her as sacrificing these people and being "cold hearted" or whatever it is people say (not just here) because you can clearly see she's always at odds when it comes to things like this and I felt so bad when she told Harrison what Abby's husband did to her that would basically be insurance for getting her to back away from him and Darby hit that scene out of the park with Josh. But I can see her wanting to save these people and not have them wind up dead somewhere because they happened to stumble upon what Hollis dead and I seriously cannot wait until that little prick is gone. He annoys me to no end.

Olivia loves her team and wants to look out for their best interest and I had a good eye rolling and laugh session last night when on a LJ community we discuss the show in posts with the clip for the next episode and someone ended up saying that Olivia made Harrison do what he did.... um where did you see Olivia hold a gun to his head? He came to her and said he knows something needs to be done and he's ready, willing and able to assist her and he did... and you can tell he also felt bad for what he was about to do and that woman as well since she said David isn't a bad man... he's very good and she was only doing it for the money.

I really can't wait for all of this to unfold so we cans ee what happens.

[marceline]

I think that Charlie was on the phone with Hollis and that Hollis is going to have James killed. Also, I think that James can probably tie Charlie and Cyrus to Amanda Tanner's murder because Charlie stopped by Cyrus' house to collect his payment before leaving town.

I wouldn't be surprised to see James and David working together and if that happens one of them has to die.

[Ann_SS]

Yeah, but having tears in your eyes and feeling bad about it while you stab someone in the back does not lessen the fact that you just seriously injured them. Most importantly, I don't buy the show's premise that Olivia betraying Abby was the only option here. Olivia could tell the truth and reveal the conspiracy to the authorities, but then Fitz would go down and she cannot have that. I would even accept "fixing" Hollis as a better option here.

Olivia does not make anyone on her team do anything, but she is willing to ask them to do things that she knows are wrong, knowing that they love her and feel obligated to her. That is morally questionable behavior on Olivia's part, period. It was her asking Huck to find Amanda that put him back onto this dark road. Olivia standing there with tears in her eyes does not change the fact that Huck is self-destructing. Olivia is responsible for her part in this. Her hands are not anywhere near clean.

This scenario works even better. James does seem more likely to be the dead man walking since the actor is recurring. Besides there is karma for Cyrus if James is murdered like Amanda Tanner.

[London]

ICAM especially about Hollis since all their problems seem to stem from him. Like why can't they call Huck or even Wink for that matter to handle this ish.

See I never see it like that -- you see how she keeps all this stuff bottled up inside and clearly has no one else to hash it out with until they put themselves into the equation like Harrison did. If Abby survives the season or whatever I hope she can somehow make her way back to David -- it doesn't matter to me since I FF their scenes. I always felt bad for that since she told him if he needed her to reign him in then to give her a call. I like Huck being that type of fixer because its fun to see more and more back story on him as he's my favorite (I just love Guillermo)... Oh crap, wait -- I'm confused. People asked was Charlie the guy that he tortured to get that Amanda Tanner info last season and he was in last night's episode. Ugh I gotta go back and investigate these damn MBs and comments.

[marceline]

I need to know more about what the secret circle did before I slam Liv on that. I remember that Verna said that if the truth came out they would all be facing prison time. We know they all agreed to something (most likely about the voting machines) then we know Hollis "freelanced" which I assume meant the bombing of Cytron but there can be a lot more involved in this than just Fitz. IMO, Hollis is a sociopath who not only isn't reluctant to kill, he seems to enjoy it. (Remember his analogy last week about killing the mouse?) The Cytron bombing killed six innocent people and Hollis never broke stride.This is about more than just protecting Fitz.

That doesn't mean that I don't still hate the way she played Abby. Having David's girlfriend accuse him of throwing her down the stairs wasn't just low because of David but it was a horrible way to use Abby's past. I love Olivia but I still want to see the show address the way she hurts people she claims to love.

Yes. Charlie is the guy who Huck tortured. That's why we saw both Charlie and Huck looking at the ugly scar on Charlie's arm. Charlie killed Amanda but he's also the guy who killed Billy. For some reason we've gotten absolutely no mention of Billy's death which boggles my mind. I have to believe that will be revisited in some way.

[London]

Dang... so Charlie killed Billy too?! I need to go back and rewatch the finale yet again. I'm not sure how I keep missing these clues. Also, did Huck kill that Artie guy we saw earlier this season? I know Huck was kinda POed that he had got one over and then when he followed him and Artie tried to run he tranqed him. But I'm not sure if he killed him or not.

[Wales2004]

I just watched last night's episode and the only thing I really really liked about it was the gathering of killers. The end is what made me like it even more because they all returned to their normal lives and the killer mom was the best running around with the kids. It seems so sick but I still liked it. I especially liked how they did the clean up thing that is such a part of Olivia's crisis management--clearly a lesson Huck taught them.

What I did find odd was that Olivia was even a part of that story. Even if the guy that sent her the mail knew of her connection to Huck, it just seemed strange to include her and I don't even think it was resolved because while they isolated it down to the doctor, who wired the money? Maybe I don't pay close enough attention (not that I should have to look hard for details on this sort of show) but it seems that there are a lot of "superficial" (for lack of a better term) type resolutions to some of these episodes. It's like the viewer is supposed to accept some simplistic wrap up to what was presented as complex and it comes across like a pile up of loose ends to me,

I'm not a fan of Kerry Washington's acting, She relies too much on a pained facial expression which I believe she overuses. I don't know if it's meant to depict vulnerability, agony, guilt, or something else. I don't have a problem with her breaking David and Abby up because that relationship represents betrayal on Abby's part and they can always find their way back to each other when the truth comes out anyway. I do think it would have been more efficient to simply have Olivia tell Abby that she knew about it and that it was dangerous to be involved with David at the moment with whatever assurances she needed to make that she was being honest about it. That whole "trust me" after I've stuck a knife in your heart makes Olivia look awful and sleeping with Edison to dull the guilt or forget the stress doesn't make her life any better or what she did any less despicable. My problem is not in trying to "save" Abby, it's how she did it. There was no need to involve Harrison when she could have handled that whole thing herself.

James is pretty stupid so I don't doubt that he will turn up dead after David contacts him and possibly before he tells David whatever he finds out or maybe as he's telling him. It kind of seems for now that David will remain on the brink of putting the pieces together but if he does then he may just become another member of Olivia's team since she'll have to "save" him as well.

[marceline]

I'm pretty sure that Huck didn't kill him, just hurt him enough to get the info he needed. Although I don't think we saw Artie again after Huck visited so perhaps he did.

[Ann_SS]

Huck did not kill Artie. He told Olivia that he handed him over the NSA. If he had not, Olivia and her team would have been disappeared, well her team anyway because no doubt Fitz would have gotten her out of trouble.

[London]

Thanks Ladies.... my brain is clearly mush when it comes to retaining information on TV shows I watch. Ok, one more question -- James is Cyrus' husband right? Why is everyone so gung ho that he'll be offed? I kinda zone out during their scenes granted the one last week with the WH Press conference was funny and the small scene I saw last night was hilarious. I actually was fooled by Cy for a quick second until his hubby left and I'm like dang he just played him!

[Ann_SS]

I want to add to my previous post in response to your comment: What Fitz and Olivia are going through is the typical yearning and unresolved feelings that are the staple of romantic trope on almost all tv shows including the soaps. Couples are tormented as obstacles are thrown at them to keep them apart for as long as possible. So that is not ending anytime soon. On Grey's Anatomy, it took Derek and Meredith four seasons to get together. I don't think SR has that kind of time with Scandal given the ratings, but there is no easy way for Fitz and Olivia to be together as long as he is president which is why it is the prefect obstacle. There are only a couple ways, killing Mellie which is possible when she gives birth and/or a scandalous divorce while Fitz is in office. I would actually relish watching Fitz vs. Mellie in a divorce story, but it is unbelievable that Fitz would survive it politically while he is in his first term. In the meanwhile, Olivia is unhappy and lonely. She does not want to be Fitz's mistress, maybe she even wants to have kids. I have no problem with her having a dalliance with Edison or some other guy. No doubt she will end up going back to Fitz eventually. Anyway, I love the angst between Fitz and Olivia. I think that it is compelling tv, the rest of the show not so much,