Scandal: Discussion Thread

[Toups]

I had no idea that something like that actually happened in real life. Who did they say it happened too? Woodrow Wilson?

I love watching these two together.Yeah, those torture scenes were tough to watch. I'm disappointed Huck didn't get a chance to kill Becky.

[Money]

Olivia irked me again in this episode but at this point it's becoming status quo. She treats Edison likes s.hit then has the nerve to cop an attitude with him when she knows she's lying through her teeth. The emphatic "goodbye Edison" was a bitch move.

Also, she tells Mellie to sign the document that will move Fitz to camp David and when Mellie asks her why she snarks she doesn't need to know the reason. WTF.

Huck telling Olivia he wont disappoint her again was overkill. The dude literally got tortured for over three days and those were the first things out of his mouth. We. get. it. They're all loyal to her to a fault. There was something so profoundly sad when he was released into her custody and without words he slowly walked into the office and started eating food. I hope Olivia decides to be a true friend to him and not settle on the constipated looks she usually gives that is suppose to pass as concern but are always quickly forgotten for the matter at hand.

I continue to love Mellie and hope she gets more airtime. It will be interesting to see how Olivia responds to Fitz and their relationship now that he's awake. I am completely over her pushing him away. I do not want him to continue to pursue her. The dude should have a new lease in life with new priorities. His reaction to her/ all of them when the rigging election is exposed will definitely be interesting.

[Wales2004]

I liked the last two episodes (even when it was obvious what was coming). It was clear once Sally threatened Mellie that Fitz would wake up. It was also obvious that there would be an interruption before Quinn got to have her talk with Olivia.

Olivia needs to be fixed as a character because some of actions and reactions damage her. The whole but she really does love Fitz or she's doing it for a greater good might be enough at some point. David came to her to help Huck and what she did to him and Abby is right in her face on a regular basis. Maybe KW doesn't do a good job of conveying emotions through facial expressions because she does indeed seem o have that same look all the time.

I don't mind her dismissal of Edision because the main problem for me is that the character even exists. Their whole past is so completely irrelevant to date that he could well have been some guy that she just met and used for a distraction. So he's on some committee and fed her a little info. I am sure they could have found another way to work that same info into the episode without him. If he's not part of some shocker then he's a waste since he's only making Olivia look even worse.

Quinn is balancing out the blind devotion to Oliva aspect of the team so it's not as bad. That doesn't mean that I get it though. Whatever Olivia may have done for Huck has to be miniscule in terms of what he's done to repay her. There's no doubt that both Harrison and Abby have done enough as well. I don't see why they cannot all just be supportive and willing to help without the cultish following.

[Money]

Her dismissal of Edison was a problem for me because it showcased all the ugly traits I detest about her. Edison would have been more appropriately used if he was just a ONS, however Shonda took the time to tell us that these two have a past relationship. Olivia is the one who told him she wanted him to continue to pursue her even though she kept telling him no. There is something so methodical and malicious about her attitude that's it's off putting. I do not care that she was trying to get over Fitz because that got lost in translation. When Edison does pursue her she acts like he's a nuisance and actually gets indignant when he says she was saved by the bell from from sleeping with him which she clearly was. There is absolutely no need to divulge that he repeatedly calls her and she answers every third call out of obligation. I totally understood where he came from when he resorted to saying he would prosecute her because all he wanted was the truth. Olivia should have been shown to be understanding even a bit remorseful through her lies but all she gave was anger and annoyance that Edison dared to oppose her to get the truth. He doesn't deserve her crap but we're not suppose to care about his feelings because he's irrelevant to Fitz and Olivia's love story just as Mellie is. We should have absolutely no problem that she treats everyone like crap (people who are suppose to be her friends) and the lack of genuine care she continues to extend to Huck is appalling.

Wales, you may be right and it may be KW's acting. Certain actresses have the ability to infuse nuance into their performances and so far KW has not. I've always said this show has the ability to be very good but Olivia is so fundamentally cold as the lead. I fail to see why her staff and everyone else caters to her bullshit because at the end of the day she ain't all that.

[Money]

Tony Goldwyn interview - some spoilers included. Since he holds Olivia to such an esteemed standard it will be really interesting to see how he reacts to her deception since he has such contempt for Mellie's.

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Scandal-Spoilers-Tony-Goldwyn-1058705.aspx

ETA: Since Olivia's style is a hot topic, the stylist talks about her decision making below:

http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/gladiators-in-suits-the-fashion-of-scandal/

[London]

Yeah, Mellie said WWilson's wife ran the country for two years after he had a stroke. I know, that was news to me too.

They are phenomenal opposite one another.

They were! I'm like UGH where's my mute button when I need it? AGREED! I was LMAO when she asked Huck was he going to put four bullets in her and he said No, five... one for the dog.

[Wales2004]

When people discuss their characters in interviews, it always seems infinitely more interesting to me than whatever appears on screen. Because Tony Goldwyn is so perfect for this role, I can buy what he says abiyt ut,

Thanks for sharing that Money. I tried to think of any other movies/shows in which I've seen KW and what sort of impression I had of her but I cannot come up with anything where she actually stood out to me.

I do think that if they go a bit lighter on the adoration of Oliva and just make her appear to be a bit more compassionate, she would be easier to take.

Regarding Edison--it's not that I don't think she treats him badly. I just have a problem with the character and figure there has to be more to his existence than has been shown so far. But you're right. It does reveal the ugly traits. A friend would go a long way in helping....I think.

[Money]

Even before he became president someone was yanking Fitz' chain. This character has got to be the weakest man in history and it's not sexy. I am now even more interested than before to to see his reaction to Olivia's betrayal because to call it anything less will be erroneous. She didn't have faith in his ability to win on his own and ultimately she didn't have faith in him. That would and should be devatstating to Fitz. This should be beneath her and yet it's not. He could expect this from Mellie and Cyrus - but not her. I want no sugar coating. I want to see his full wrath when that moment comes. I could care less about her good intentions. She and everyoen else made the decision for him to be POTUS. If he had lost he would have been devatsated but they would have moved on together. Now the very thing he wanted is tainted because of her.

And speaking of Mellie - damn. I just flove this woman. How much more humilation must she take. I wish they had lingered more on her reaction whe he asked for the divorce but of course we can't feel sympathy for her. I have no doubt she loves him but she hides it really well. She doesn't deserve to be cheated on and stay in the marriage just because she's ambitious. Yet it's of her own choosing. The elevator scene where she thinks Fitz is innocently groping on Olivia and she apologizes profusely was really well done. She was so genuine and the one thing that was made clear was that could have been really good friends. Fitz is one cold bastard.

Per the promo for the next episode, the 'guilt' is eating Olivia alive. Really? Because up until now she hasn't showed any. Are we suppose to believe that she's now becoming undone because of Edison's proposal? Poor Edison. Such a stupid fool. A fool that should be passed his expiration date. This writing has made me feel more sympathy for everyone but Olivia.

[Wales2004]

'Just guessing but I don't think the guilt is supposed to be a result of Edison's proposal. It's possible but she isn't invested in him at all--which is another reason that his being from her past doesn't seem to be purposeful. I don't know if they ever brought up the reason their relationship ended but it seems to be Fitz related and it seems odd that he would not have had an inkiling that there was someone else at that time--if her feelings for Fitz played a part.

Yesterday's episode actually defrosted Olivia a bit in a couple of ways. When she went to see him before his press conference and she dabbed away at his face with the handkerchief, she seemed to let her guard down. The other moment was when she caved on rigging the vote.

I agree that the decision was made for him. I think the telling moment was when he had a chance to use the "dirt" and didn't. Based on that it would seem that he would have rejected Hollis' plan. They had no right to control his life nor to take away the people's votes.

Fitz should be angry with Olivia when he finds out but no one needed her approval. I don't even see it as good intentions because it wasn't a decision based on what she thought was good for the nation. That whole scene demonstrated how much she loves him. Even though Mellie loves him in her way, I don't think it runs that deep. She went in based on what she wanted. That parallel from the point of the decision and what everyone wanted and present day when she asked what Fitz wanted told it all. What she did was worse than Olivia because she's supposed to know Fitz since she's his partner.

I like Mellie and she has her genuine moments. I don't see her ambition as a problem and I don't agree with the contempt that Fitz shows for her because so far nothing has been revealed to show that it is merited. I would like to see her move on to something better for her.

My writing gripe is the absence of the children. I know that showing them would make Fitz look even worse but at least mention them and their concern for their father.

[Money]

Young has stated Mellie loves Fitz and when asked if she was involved in his shooting she said absolutely not. I see the love. It's not a selfless one but it's good enough for me. It would be good if Shonda told us what disintegrated their marriage and give us some insight as to why Fitz cheated other than his love for Olivia because clearly something was the catalyst that drove him away from the marriage since he has so much contempt for her. Simply being a fan of Olitz is not enough because I should not be rooting for her marriage to fail when it isn't being shown why I should dislike her.

Agree that Olivia isn't invested in Edison at all. And if she doesn't love him then she should not be contemplating his proposal. It's not fair to him and coming off the heels of blatantly lying to his face it just makes her more unlikeable for me.

[Wales2004]

Maybe nothing broke the marriage other than Fitz realizing that he settled for less than he should have. He referred to himself as a coward for not having waited for Olivia to come into his life. Maybe he didn't believe that he would meet a woman to whom he'd want to give himself entirely so he got as close as he thought he would and married Mellie. Now she's just a reminder of his weakness and his contempt for her results from the anger he has for himself.

The flashback to Mellie bringing his father into the campaign seemed like a way of showing that she wasn't in tune with Fitz and his emotions. A more interesting flashback for me would be of the moment she discovered Fitz was having an affair with Olivia.

There was a little bit of a disconnect for me because of how quickly his father died, in terms of the scenes. It seemed as if making the parallels took priority over sound storytelling. I think the ax scene could very well have been used in another episode since they didn't need to show his father again to say that he died.

[Money]

I don't buy Olivia's guilt and I definitely don't buy her mental breakdown because it's all too sudden and convenient. Since she has never shown remorse for anything she's done leading up to this episode, it feels rushed to make her sympathetic since Shonda needed to wrap this arc.

I don't know if it's idealism, stupidity or arrogance that makes Fitz thinks he can divorce his pregnant wife after America's baby is born, marry his mistress and still be president once the country knows. Since he says he loves the position he's in where he gets to have "a big idea" and Cyrus works out the details I'm inclined to think it's the latter.

And the reason I don't buy Olivia's apologies to her team because if she was truly sincere she would not have allowed the rest of the team to intimidate Quinn in knowing the complete truth. If anything, Alison would have agreed they all needed to know and she would have no problem with the others leaving to get the truth out of Olivia.

Even when Olivia finally does the right thing she screws David over... repeatedly. I would be surprised if the character didn't have blue balls.

I continue to love Mellie. I absolutely love it when she ranted that she stood by Fitz through his daddy issues, built him only for Olivia to reap the rewards. How true, and that's why I can't root for Olivia and Fitz completely because Shonda never gave me a legitimate reason to hate Mellie. I liked the tidbit in knowing that Fitz was there for her in her previous deliveries. Makes me wonder if he truly is a good father. But since he was also there for her in this one and has no problem in continuing to ask his mistress to wait for him then I continue to think he's one cold bastard.

Could Verna be the one who ordered the hit? Knowing Shonda she's going for shock value.

[London]

I'm not getting into that again -- internally I don't know what shes feeling but I do feel bad for her.

Please, I love that Quinn owned Abby when she told her not to call her Lindsey Dwyer anymore and Hardison was just sitting there cracking up. IMO there was only one person that continued to bitch at Quinn and that was Abby and she put that bitch in her place, and I loved every second of it. Hardison stood by her and reminded her that she was a Gladiator in a suit. I love those two but I don't think we'll get anything from them anymore.

Cute that Katie's husband played Jesse on the show tonight.

Mellie is amazing but I think that's from Bellamy's strong portrayal of her. I love Olitz and know they'll be endgame but like you and many others who are starting to question this -- I need a back story on why he hates her so much. I get what he's said in the past and I do side eye her hard at times but I still need to see a legitimate reason as to why he loathes her so damn much.

Cyrus telling Fitz that Liv wasn't the right hue for the Republican party had me in stitches. I could not believe he went there.

I'm now hearing Verna or Mellie and I just don't get it -- yeah originally I thought Mellie but I don't get the payoff. She wants to stay FLOTUS or build her own platform to run for something and I don't see her taking him out. I need to know who gave her the money.

That promo for the next episode was just too damn much. I need to know what's going to happen.

Also, I love that the team is so ride or die for Olivia -- I'm like damn, ya'll really would follow her over a cliff I bet. But I do agree about deniability in not knowing but sure as hell would want to after especially Quinn... and I can't wait for the proverbial sh!t to hit the fan when it comes out about Liv needing David/Abby apart -- I actually loved in S1 when Abby laid into Liv for letting that Dictator walk out of there with his wife and kids and not even attempt to fight.

[Wales2004]

I don't have a problem with Olivia's remorse because the flashback to when she agreed to go along with the rigging shows she didn't feel good about it. Besides, I don't think this is the type of thing for which you need more build up. I can see a person suddenly becoming overwhelmed when things appear to be crashing down.

My problem was with her apology. More specifically what she did to Abby merits more than a generic apology to the group. /And, ITA about Quinn. She should have reminded everyone how Quinn's life was totally disrupted and asked them to leave so Quinn could ask her whatever she felt she needed to know.

Mellie's recitation of what she did for Fitz didn't make her more sympathetic to me. It actually had the opposite effect and I generally like the character. I know it was the equivalent of the gave him my life for disrespect speech, but it didn't make me feel as if she really loved Fitz. He sounded more like an ungrateful subject.

It seems unlikely to me that there could be any one thing that would make Fitz's loathing of Mellie understandable in a "so that's what caused it" way. He just seems to have developed a dislike for her that grew into contempt and the longer he's stuck, the more the contempt grows. Plus, he's got this soul mate he cannot have and he's idealized her.

What's extremely out f place and bordering on nonsensical to me is Edison. At least I can see that Fitz has romanticized Olivia to some extent and he loves her almost blindly so I get his wanting to be with her. Edison has nothing. That little spiel he gave to her "family" highlighted their lack of any real connection. The marriage proposal came after she dismissed him and I still don't get why he was added.

All I hope from the whodunit mystery is that it makes some sense. There must be some reasonable explanation for why Hollis and the other person used the same contract killer. V.P. Sally would be the logical way out. Or Billy wasn't killed and he did it for Sally. Maybe the writers will even remember that the guy who knew about the phone calls had an accomplice who picked him up and reveal who that is.

[London]

Ooooo I get what you're saying Wales. That's right we haven't seen Billy since she cast him out and he went maverick with that press conference.

I just don't get Edison at all and have no feeling toward him except I can't stand it when he's on my screen, that's another "relationship" I'd want back story to. He shows up, Olivia calls him, get's info from him then they have some sort of relationship after however long and it doesn't even seem like she's all in but using him as a distraction for her feelings to Fitz. I can't with him and although I like the actor, I can't wait for the day Edison is gone from my screen.

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