2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I think we even had her mom Pat come for visits as well.

She did appear a number of times, yes.

Carla was older and not quite as popular as Angie and Jesse, but I do think they could've easily found a role in the LOV firmament for her and Sadie, be it at the hospital or with Carla continuing in law and adding some young relatives for them (or Josh Hall). Would it have been as strong as what Angie, Frankie and Jacob became, probably not, but it would've kept the characters in the ABC audience consciousness for longer. Which, as Debbi and Darnell's time at LOV and TC proved, went a long way down the road. Of course the same can be said for Linda Gottlieb, etc.'s apparent attempts to get Holly to appear on OLTL in '92 or '93 for the 25th anniversary, which she turned down.

5 hours ago, Wilsoky said:

 

Does anyone remember who played Congressman Matthew Callaway? I've tried to look it up, but there is no info anywhere.

He was Edmund's opponent in the US House election and backed by Adam. Callaway even tried to kill Edmund once with a car bomb.

 

@slick jones

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Wilsoky

34 minutes ago, Wilsoky said:

@slick jones

@Wilsoky

Matt Calloway was played by two actors...

Joel Fabiani

and

Kip Niven

He had a wife played by actress Caroline Kava

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Of course the same can be said for Linda Gottlieb, etc.'s apparent attempts to get Holly to appear on OLTL in '92 or '93 for the 25th anniversary, which she turned down.

I didn't know that Ellen Holly had been approached to return for OLTL's 25th.  Or, if I had known, I had forgotten.  That's amazing (...and kind of sad that it didn't happen, although I certainly understand why).

I wonder if Holly and Lillian Hayman might've been more inclined to move over to AMC, since that had a higher profile than LOVING.  AMC had a very large cast at that time, but I think they could've trimmed a few actors from the roster to make room for them.

27 minutes ago, Khan said:

I didn't know that Ellen Holly had been approached to return for OLTL's 25th.  Or, if I had known, I had forgotten.  That's amazing (...and kind of sad that it didn't happen, although I certainly understand why).

She was. She talks about it in her book and very poignantly says she would've felt out of place at some anniversary dinner with a slew of rich costars (some of whom, like Robin and Bob Woods, she still seemed very fond of) while having become a city librarian. Recently someone indicated they also may have tried to get her to appear in summer '92, when Valarie Pettiford's Sheila and Ellen Bethea's Rachel openly discuss colorism and the local legend of Carla in a scene that knocked me over with a feather. (The individual scene is still floating around on YT, though I believe much of that year is now available.)

Edited January 29Jan 29 by Vee

10 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Angie had more focus and attention on Loving during her time there then she would have on AMC at the time.  God knows what McTavish would have subjected her to during that era.

She had two strong relationships with Charles and Jacob, a good friendship with Stacy and Jeremy, explored her relationship with her son Frankie, and I think we even had her mom Pat come for visits as well.

It makes me wonder if that same treatment would have been given to Ellen Holly back in the 80s when Agnes wanted to bring Carla and Sadie over to Loving?

Other than the Chicken Shack degradation (which Whitfield didn't really blame on her specifically - he said he was told they just weren't going to have Derek and Mimi marry in a church because they'd already used that set for other recent weddings), I think some fans might say McTavish gave better material to the black characters than what they would get through the rest of the '90s - although I think that may be more down to ABC likely feeling the black canvas could just be replaced by the (sanctimonious and dull as hell) Santos family. 

Still, I think Angie was better served with Loving at the time, at least once her stories got going - I know some fans feel that her story doesn't really pick up until the time she's sick and Janie dies, giving her a transplant. After that she gets steady, good material.

I actually had a dream a few days ago where there was a big special episode, done with a filmic quality, and a premiere, of Angie going to Loving, and Angie and Pat walking out of a big movie theater, etc. 

Maybe somebody can turn that into an AI someday...probably around the time we all get turned into AI.

 

 

14 hours ago, slick jones said:

@Wilsoky

Matt Calloway was played by two actors...

Joel Fabiani

and

Kip Niven

He had a wife played by actress Caroline Kava

Thank you! It was driving me crazy, I was even watching the closing credits from 94/95 on YouTube. He was never credited! How do you find your info?

5 hours ago, Wilsoky said:

Thank you! It was driving me crazy, I was even watching the closing credits from 94/95 on YouTube. He was never credited! How do you find your info?

I figured out why I recognized him, he also played Barry Shire - Adam Chandler's attorney. He was in several episodes in that role.

Joel Fabiani also played King Galen on DYNASTY.

Not sure if shared in the past so re-sharing.

The part I enjoyed was their discussion on character and their backstories.  The how and why of a character is vital because it informs how you play and write the character..even if not shown on screen.

Perfect examples of female characters on AMC with the Nixon touch (imho).

1) Erica Kane (Abandonment issues, seeking constant validation, poor social skills with women)

2) Brooke English (Adopted mom hated her, trying to mother teen girls that are lost due to her lack of being given love by a female/motherly figure..plus grief over losing her daughter, always opting for Erica's leftover

3) Gloria Marsh

 

On 1/29/2025 at 8:36 AM, Contessa Donatella said:

Is there any proof that Mulcahey took himself off of the credits, as co-creator? What I'd always seen was that after he left, Agnes had his name removed from the credits as co-creator. Just be great to know which it was. And, of course, if anyone ever knows what happened between the two friends & colleagues, please share the knowledge.

 

I don't think it was Patrick Mulcahey. I believe it was Agnes and Douglas Marland who co-created Loving. I don't know the reason for the falling out.

2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

I don't think it was Patrick Mulcahey. I believe it was Agnes and Douglas Marland who co-created Loving. I don't know the reason for the falling out.

I don't know about Mulcahey's involvement, though obviously he was a major part of the small writing team at the start.

However, Loving had a more complicated creation, one I had confirmed 10 or so years back when I had a brief email correspondence with Dan Wakefield while I was researching my Nixon/AMC related MA thesis. 

Dan Wakefield, who passed away just last year, was a well regarded novelist most known for Going All the Way and Starting Over.  He actually also wrote the screenplay decades later for 1997's film of Going All the Way with an amazing cast--that was a big mess but the director's cut released a couple of years back is worth watching.  But I digress.

Wakefield also wrote the 1976 book All Her Children, one of the first books to take soap operas seriously, and as anyone who remembers me on here, a book I champion all the time, which talks about how surprised he was to fall in love and become obsessed with AMC, and then examines soap operas and its fans in general as well as profiling Agnes Nixon.  Around that time Wakefield actually created the show James at 16 (though I think network interference meant he didn't stay with it for its brief run.)

But he remained close with Nixon, and they hatched a plan to create a soap opera together, and he would be the headwriter.  It was his idea to set it on a college campus.  In my emails, Wakefield, who was flattered anyone was interested in this aspect of his career, said he'd look for the outline and mail (!) a copy to me, but our emails petered out and he never seemed to find it.  This was when it was still called Love Without End (which doesn't flow off the tongue but I still think is a better title.)  Anyway, Dan realized just how much work and what a commitment being headwriter would be, and he amiably left the project, and it was, from his understanding, around this point when Nixon contacted Marland (at that stage in her career, Nixon didn't want to actually be a headwriter for a new show, but she did want to oversee it.)  I believe Marland at the time only had cable soap New Day in Eden occupying him and it probably quickly became apparent that it was a non-starter (how I wish I could see more than the 5 minutes of an episode I've seen of that!)

Knowing what we know of Marland I think the basic character/family setup of Loving was his work.  But we now know that the combo never really worked--apparently Nixon insisted on giving plenty of notes on all the early scripts, which wasn't what was expected. etc.

37 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I don't know about Mulcahey's involvement, though obviously he was a major part of the small writing team at the start.

However, Loving had a more complicated creation, one I had confirmed 10 or so years back when I had a brief email correspondence with Dan Wakefield while I was researching my Nixon/AMC related MA thesis. 

Dan Wakefield, who passed away just last year, was a well regarded novelist most known for Going All the Way and Starting Over.  He actually also wrote the screenplay decades later for 1997's film of Going All the Way with an amazing cast--that was a big mess but the director's cut released a couple of years back is worth watching.  But I digress.

Wakefield also wrote the 1976 book All Her Children, one of the first books to take soap operas seriously, and as anyone who remembers me on here, a book I champion all the time, which talks about how surprised he was to fall in love and become obsessed with AMC, and then examines soap operas and its fans in general as well as profiling Agnes Nixon.  Around that time Wakefield actually created the show James at 16 (though I think network interference meant he didn't stay with it for its brief run.)

But he remained close with Nixon, and they hatched a plan to create a soap opera together, and he would be the headwriter.  It was his idea to set it on a college campus.  In my emails, Wakefield, who was flattered anyone was interested in this aspect of his career, said he'd look for the outline and mail (!) a copy to me, but our emails petered out and he never seemed to find it.  This was when it was still called Love Without End (which doesn't flow off the tongue but I still think is a better title.)  Anyway, Dan realized just how much work and what a commitment being headwriter would be, and he amiably left the project, and it was, from his understanding, around this point when Nixon contacted Marland (at that stage in her career, Nixon didn't want to actually be a headwriter for a new show, but she did want to oversee it.)  I believe Marland at the time only had cable soap New Day in Eden occupying him and it probably quickly became apparent that it was a non-starter (how I wish I could see more than the 5 minutes of an episode I've seen of that!)

Knowing what we know of Marland I think the basic character/family setup of Loving was his work.  But we now know that the combo never really worked--apparently Nixon insisted on giving plenty of notes on all the early scripts, which wasn't what was expected. etc.

Thanks for reminding us of the history with Wakefield and Loving, which I always forget. 

I think Agnes' choices start to seep in after some of the initial material, although we have so little available it's hard to say (I'd give her credit for Ava and Kate, at least).

The good news is if you go to the New Day In Eden/Loving Friends and Perfect Couples thread, a full New Day in Eden episode was finally put on Youtube earlier this month. We've gotten so much this month I am now going to feel spoiled for the upcoming drought.

4 hours ago, Jonathan said:

I don't think it was Patrick Mulcahey. I believe it was Agnes and Douglas Marland who co-created Loving. I don't know the reason for the falling out.

Of course it was Douglas Marland. Certainly I knew that. I have no idea why my wayward fingers typed Mulcahey. One of life's lovely OOPS. Thanks.

1 hour ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I don't know about Mulcahey's involvement, though obviously he was a major part of the small writing team at the start.

However, Loving had a more complicated creation, one I had confirmed 10 or so years back when I had a brief email correspondence with Dan Wakefield while I was researching my Nixon/AMC related MA thesis. 

Dan Wakefield, who passed away just last year, was a well regarded novelist most known for Going All the Way and Starting Over.  He actually also wrote the screenplay decades later for 1997's film of Going All the Way with an amazing cast--that was a big mess but the director's cut released a couple of years back is worth watching.  But I digress.

Wakefield also wrote the 1976 book All Her Children, one of the first books to take soap operas seriously, and as anyone who remembers me on here, a book I champion all the time, which talks about how surprised he was to fall in love and become obsessed with AMC, and then examines soap operas and its fans in general as well as profiling Agnes Nixon.  Around that time Wakefield actually created the show James at 16 (though I think network interference meant he didn't stay with it for its brief run.)

But he remained close with Nixon, and they hatched a plan to create a soap opera together, and he would be the headwriter.  It was his idea to set it on a college campus.  In my emails, Wakefield, who was flattered anyone was interested in this aspect of his career, said he'd look for the outline and mail (!) a copy to me, but our emails petered out and he never seemed to find it.  This was when it was still called Love Without End (which doesn't flow off the tongue but I still think is a better title.)  Anyway, Dan realized just how much work and what a commitment being headwriter would be, and he amiably left the project, and it was, from his understanding, around this point when Nixon contacted Marland (at that stage in her career, Nixon didn't want to actually be a headwriter for a new show, but she did want to oversee it.)  I believe Marland at the time only had cable soap New Day in Eden occupying him and it probably quickly became apparent that it was a non-starter (how I wish I could see more than the 5 minutes of an episode I've seen of that!)

Knowing what we know of Marland I think the basic character/family setup of Loving was his work.  But we now know that the combo never really worked--apparently Nixon insisted on giving plenty of notes on all the early scripts, which wasn't what was expected. etc.

I was unaware of all of this information & am thoroughly enjoying reading this. And I have & love that book. And, I have read or heard multiple accounts of Agnes's red penciling even the final drafts of scripts written by valued colleagues. Thank you for posting this!